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  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by fearist View Post
    Not a single post about this on blizzard forums? What gives?? I'd do it but im perma-forum banned.
    They added in the coefficients that was intended to be in the game in the first place, sure people can whine to get the meta buffed again for other classes(as it sucks that its a legendary that doesn't feel very legendary) etc... but on the flip side the classes that have the higher up time would need a hotfix to increase damage / scaling that the meta currently gives with the higher proc chance.

    it just sucks that they use the meta to balance classes at the end of the day.

  2. #102
    I guess now that they fixed it they'll wait a while and keep an eye on the results.

    Then act accordingly if need be. Fire aren't in a bad spot atm in heroic, but they are in NMs if you're not well geared.

    Almost no one's playing frost past 515 ilvl, so i'm welcoming this "fix".
    Made by mountandpetlover, big thanks !

  3. #103
    Legendary! Polarthief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fearist View Post
    Not a single post about this on blizzard forums? What gives?? I'd do it but im perma-forum banned.
    Same. I want someone to get this info to Blizzard.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-20 at 03:41 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Eihwaz View Post
    I guess now that they fixed it they'll wait a while and keep an eye on the results.

    Then act accordingly if need be. Fire aren't in a bad spot atm in heroic, but they are in NMs if you're not well geared.

    Almost no one's playing frost past 515 ilvl, so i'm welcoming this "fix".
    Okay, but they could have kept Fire where it was and put Frost at 40-45% uptime.

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  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by voltaa View Post
    I think the design that blizz was going for was by giving everyone who puts in the time and effort a legendary, it removes guild drama and imbalance from the process of getting legendaries, I agree with this new design. While it's nice to be the guy who get's the zomg overpowered staff, it took an entire guild's effort to get that one person an item, then that person could just up and leave as soon as he gets it and it all goes to waste. Personal effort personal gain, and balance...seems pretty good to me even if I am trading that iconic legendary feel
    So basically any high level of play makes other jealous as the people in actual raiding guilds, get their legendary which is how it should be. Instead blizzard does their welfare and gives everyone a gem which is sad.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-20 at 07:49 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragon9870 View Post
    Same. I want someone to get this info to Blizzard.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-20 at 03:41 PM ----------



    Okay, but they could have kept Fire where it was and put Frost at 40-45% uptime.
    With fire scaling why would anyone play frost at that item level for it to be even mentioned? You dont need all specs to be equal, look at arcane.

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by isadorr View Post
    So basically any high level of play makes other jealous as the people in actual raiding guilds, get their legendary which is how it should be. Instead blizzard does their welfare and gives everyone a gem which is sad.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-20 at 07:49 PM ----------



    With fire scaling why would anyone play frost at that item level for it to be even mentioned? You dont need all specs to be equal, look at arcane.
    I'm having superior numbers in frost than with fire at 512 ilvl. 36% crit wasnt near enough for it to be decent.

    I had lots of no-crit streak, sometimes 7/8 fireballs, and in 2 lockout I tried fire, I encountered a lot of 0 crit pyros while using alter time (thats starting with Pyro! + HU proc).
    Leading to sometimes pretty good dps, and sometimes shitty and well below par.

    I'm not gonna play a rollercoaster dps spec and jeopardize our boss kills because of my spec.. Not when I can guarantee a better a steady dps with frost.
    Made by mountandpetlover, big thanks !

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by Dragon9870 View Post
    Okay, but they could have kept Fire where it was and put Frost at 40-45% uptime.
    As someone mentionned earlier, they use the metagem to balance dps at high ilvl, so spec that are low in full bis/near full bis get a much higher uptime (see moonkin/elem, up to 50% uptime) and spec that are already high in good gear get a lower uptime (fire mage/all demo spec). But blizzard forgot to put the uptime modification per spec on live, so everyone was at about 25% uptime which they hotfixed. Just as a reminder the intended proc rate modification are :
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Meta Gem Madness

    Okay, these should be the correct meta gem proc rates. I also updated the melee ones, just because that's the kind of thing we are going to continually tweak until we're happy with them. The caster ones should be more sane.

    Sinister
    0.761 Arcane
    0.302 Fire Mage
    1.387 Frost Mage
    0.625 Affliction
    0.598 Demonology
    0.509 Destruction
    1.891 Elemental
    1.872 Moonkin
    0.933 Shadow
    So fire should be seeing 8-10% uptime if they didn't modify these number.

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by Dionx View Post
    they use the metagem to balance dps at high ilvl, so spec that are low in full bis/near full bis get a much higher uptime (see moonkin/elem, up to 50% uptime)
    But , moonkins are strong on single target , and 10 time better than firemages on multi target fights.
    Isn't that dumb ?

    Sure I understand for elem , but well , it's their own fault for not buffing it.
    I mean , everyone is complaining about the dps of elemental shamans , even other classes , and they aren't doing anything.

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by Eihwaz View Post
    I'm having superior numbers in frost than with fire at 512 ilvl. 36% crit wasnt near enough for it to be decent.

    I had lots of no-crit streak, sometimes 7/8 fireballs, and in 2 lockout I tried fire, I encountered a lot of 0 crit pyros while using alter time (thats starting with Pyro! + HU proc).
    Leading to sometimes pretty good dps, and sometimes shitty and well below par.

    I'm not gonna play a rollercoaster dps spec and jeopardize our boss kills because of my spec.. Not when I can guarantee a better a steady dps with frost.
    I dont know...people seem to overvalue combustion. A good combustion isn't everything (like what, 10% of our damage?), and even with a sub-par combustion you can still easily beat frost dps if you get some decent pyroblasts going afterwards and dont waste any hot streaks/heating ups.

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by isadorr View Post
    So basically any high level of play makes other jealous as the people in actual raiding guilds, get their legendary which is how it should be. Instead blizzard does their welfare and gives everyone a gem which is sad.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-20 at 07:49 PM ----------



    With fire scaling why would anyone play frost at that item level for it to be even mentioned? You dont need all specs to be equal, look at arcane.
    So what do you suggest? Another system like shadowmourne? Rogue daggers? Or dragonwrath? Those were all welfare legendaries as well, you didn't have to be even close to "good" or "skilled" to get any of these, it was a bad system that caused more drama than good. Or maybe they should go back to random drop legendaries, that's a good system...legendaries while cool and fun, are a bad idea and don't really bring much to the game other than imbalance and QQ, if this is blizz's way of phasing out legendaries, good.

  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by Breakee View Post
    But , moonkins are strong on single target , and 10 time better than firemages on multi target fights.
    Isn't that dumb ?

    Sure I understand for elem , but well , it's their own fault for not buffing it.
    I mean , everyone is complaining about the dps of elemental shamans , even other classes , and they aren't doing anything.
    Well on single target, fire destroy moonkin then on multi target considering raidbots number, the only fight where moonkin are above fire mage is primordius, fire is still above moonkin on horridon/council/tortos..etc.

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by willemh View Post
    I dont know...people seem to overvalue combustion. A good combustion isn't everything (like what, 10% of our damage?), and even with a sub-par combustion you can still easily beat frost dps if you get some decent pyroblasts going afterwards and dont waste any hot streaks/heating ups.
    Sure, combustion isnt as important as it was before. But getting your opener screwed up by RNG, sometimes doing 90K dps and sometimes 200k+, not fun.
    Frost i'm 100% i'm gonna get at least a 180K+ opener, and with a little bit of luck, even more.

    It just didn't feel smooth at all, maybe its better when you're getting around 38+% crit, but before that it still is too RNG.

    I still have our logs, I was doing around 10% more dps with frost, and frankly, fire isn't hard to play, i'm guessing while I don't play a perfect fire mage, i've been playing this class for years and I know my way around it, so it definitely wasn't a rotation issue.

    And, worst of all, this was frustrating (with sometimes near orgasm moment when everything crit and lines up )
    Made by mountandpetlover, big thanks !

  12. #112
    So I did a LFR just now, and I noticed my gem wasnt procing at pull which it ALWAYS do. After a few minutes into the boss and still no proc, I had to check if I even had the helm piece on. After all three bosses I counted about 2 procs pr boss.

    Then I alt tabbed and went into this forum looking if someone else had noticed it, which apperantly ppl have. Can anyone care to explain what has happened? Theres so many posts, and I havent really found an answer. Cant seem to find any posts about this from Blizzard either.

    - 523 Fire mage
    Last edited by Dissemoen; 2013-04-20 at 09:55 PM.

  13. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by Dissemoen View Post
    So I did a LFR just now, and I noticed my gem wasnt procing at pull which it ALWAYS do. After a few minutes into the boss and still no proc, I had to check if I even had the helm piece on. After all three bosses I counted about 2 procs pr boss.

    Then I alt tabbed and went into this forum looking if someone else had noticed it, which apperantly ppl have. Can anyone care to explain what has happened? Theres so many posts, and I havent really found an answer. Cant seem to find any posts about this from Blizzard either.

    - Fire mage
    In grand Blizzard fashion the modifier on it was bugged and the proc rate we are getting atm is intended.

  14. #114
    I don't really think it is appropriate to keep balancing us around being in heroic raid gear. Constantly getting nerfed because we'd be too strong in full heroic gear, gear that I'm just not going to see anytime soon, considering my guild's current schedule. I can't wait for 5.4 to see what they'll nerf this time because we'll be too powerful in full heroic T16 gear again.

    It's kinda lame that we have to try and figure out if the legendary meta is worth using. It should be a fairly significant upgrade, no questions asked.

  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by mrgreenthump View Post
    In grand Blizzard fashion the modifier on it was bugged and the proc rate we are getting atm is intended.
    I see Is there any official source for this new fix anywhere?

  16. #116
    Awww, so I guess no more ridiculous openers and spamming Pyroblast during Timewarp on Primordius?

    It was fun while it lasted.
    One day you'll understand that whoring dps/hps for ranks doesn't mean you are a good player, there are many more variables that separate a great player from an average, dps/hps ain't one of them.
    <Static>, 16/16H, 13/13H 14/14H 25m

  17. #117
    Legendary! Polarthief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dionx View Post
    Well on single target, fire destroy moonkin then on multi target considering raidbots number, the only fight where moonkin are above fire mage is primordius, fire is still above moonkin on horridon/council/tortos..etc.
    http://www.raidbots.com/dpsbot/Megae...14/60/default/

    Fire destroys boomers ST?

    Primordius is not a good fight to judge any DPS on due to buffs, ST, and AoE.

    But no, it's bullshit that Boomkins got a retardedly high (almost 2.0) coefficient, and we got a 30% coeff. Like what the fuck?

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  18. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by Dragon9870 View Post
    Not sure if srs. Meg is the only single target fight boomkins are above fire for under your criteria. Jin'Rokh, Durumu, and Iron Qon all have fire at #2. Which is actually funny considering all you whine about is fire being middle of the pack. Granted, those are only the single target fights but lets say fire did get a buff to it's coefficient. Does it really look like fire wouldn't be way out of line for those ST fights?

    And you're still looking at it wrong, the actual coefficient doesn't matter, it's the % damage increase you get from it over the regular meta.

  19. #119
    Megaera permanently has 2 targets. Yes, attacking the second target is pointless, but it still increases your listed DPS.

  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragon9870 View Post
    I'm talking about pre-nerf, but feel free to use an argument from another thread as to why this gem should stay absolutely abysmal for one specc. It was definitely a huge DPS increase before they applied the coefficients. My DPS skyrocketed this week from the previous week with the gem.
    [...]
    Regardless, they really need to fix this. Fire shouldn't even be considering the Burning meta especially when you can just buy that while we had to do a TON of raiding in both T14 and T15 to get to this point.
    And I'm talking about burning vs sinister gems, as they stand post-fix, and the relative difference between them. I find it oddly fascinating that you're complaining this much about it, when you have a thread based on trying to reason why you don't use MI for the damage gain, which is very nearly the damage gained from the legendary over burning. It's a 3% gain over burning right now. There's no real argument to use burning right now.

    My personal feelings on fire aside. You keep saying that fire shouldn't be considering burning. It's not. There's no competition. A non-optimized action list is a 3% gain. That's not refreshing bombs inside the proc, that's not attempting to line up combustion on the pull with it. That's equipping it and doing nothing to optimize play with it. And guess what? You're not the lowest benefiting spec from it, either! If anyone should be complaining, it should be destro. They stack haste and still get less benefit than fire. But they're probably off optimizing their play to get the most out of the procs instead of crying that they got nerfed.

    Quote Originally Posted by isadorr View Post
    With fire scaling why would anyone play frost at that item level for it to be even mentioned? You dont need all specs to be equal, look at arcane.
    Sup. I play frost. I play it because I enjoy it more than fire and keep up with the rest of our casters. I know one of our mages also plays frost. As do Akraen's mages. There's enough of us around to warrant it. Spec balance is a good thing, it gives people options. If I had to play fire for progression, I'd likely quit raiding. I find it to be a horrible spec.

    Look at the asian arcane players, though. They're showing that if played properly, it's beastly. The community up and decided that arcane wasn't viable and none of us EU/US players play it. Asia didn't listen and went ahead and smashed the other two specs fairly hard with it. Sure, they've got +8 ilvls on us, but so do their fire and frost players.

    Quote Originally Posted by ihateyouall View Post
    I don't really think it is appropriate to keep balancing us around being in heroic raid gear.
    What should they do then? Let fire get out of control at the high end, and let top end guilds just see how many fire mages they can stack because they're balanced around 510, when gear caps out at ~547 after item upgrades? They have to balance for the high end. It's how this game goes. Sorry to say, but reg mode raiding doesn't have much bearing on class balance overall.

    Megaera 10N isn't exactly a stellar fight to compare single target, either. Multidotting both heads is a single target DPS gain on moonkin via starsurge procs. Try 25H Jin'rokh. At least there's only one target the entire fight. Twin Consorts is mostly a single target fight, as is Iron Qon reg.

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