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  1. #21
    Over 9000! Nindoriel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skorpionss View Post
    well obviously they will eventually make the change permanent for everyone prolly when next expac hits...
    If the change is permanent for everyone, then how will something like the Pandaren introduction work. What about the intro video of the orcs, it talks about Garrosh and his war. What about the cinematic that leads you to Pandaria, where Garrosh orders the Horde to go there and take the continent. Will you walk into a room with the new warchief, and then the game cuts to Garrosh screaming, and then you're back in the room with the new warchief again?

  2. #22
    The Insane GennGreymane's Avatar
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    what if garrosh wins?

    i mean vol;jins rebellion will be most of the taurens and trolls as apart of it as well as many blood elves. lets not forget even with out the rp books...... they were never a massive population. except blood elves.....but ya know

    but garrosh will also have loyal trolls, taruens, and sunreavers.

    the goblins will likely side with garrosh he has the money. and sylvanas would at this time not really support either side, in all honesty her best interest would be garrosh since it would give sylvanas more freedom than under baine or vol;jin. sylvanas playing any major role would be poor storytelling since she is a girl who knows whats good for her. vol'jin would not be good for her. garrosh said do what ever the fuck u want just no plauge.... and he hardly enforces that rule.

    also pandas.... i dont know how that will go.



    also we dont know how strong a presence the alliance will have in this. they will swing favor to vol'jins side.... but it will be shit storytelling if its limitless help with noooooo agreement to do something for the alliance

    plus garrosh has nearly all the orcs on his side. some magnataur, protodrakes, war machines, sha stuff, hozen, etc..... garrosh be ballin

    hell i would not be surprised if garrosh had some mogu on his side
    Last edited by GennGreymane; 2013-04-03 at 04:10 PM.

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  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Nindoriel View Post
    If the change is permanent for everyone, then how will something like the Pandaren introduction work. What about the intro video of the orcs, it talks about Garrosh and his war. What about the cinematic that leads you to Pandaria, where Garrosh orders the Horde to go there and take the continent. Will you walk into a room with the new warchief, and then the game cuts to Garrosh screaming, and then you're back in the room with the new warchief again?
    Are you unaware of how World of Warcraft works? Most of the time, you're not playing in the present, why would it be any different for the pandaren? And you don't even need to do that introduction quest, so I wouldn't be surprised if it's removed with Garrosh.

  4. #24
    The Lightbringer Naxere's Avatar
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    There is no way Garrosh remains Warchief, not after the little bit we've seen from patch 5.3 so far.

  5. #25
    Personally i like Garrosh, with him in charge we can win the war and wipe out the alliance from azeroth.

  6. #26
    Pit Lord icausewipes's Avatar
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    i agree with the post above.
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  7. #27
    Banned Trassk's Avatar
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    Then you both really haven't been paying attention. You both do understand that the alliance and horde will never wipe each other out, right?

  8. #28
    My theory is that the title of "Warchief" will be simply abolished. Garrosh has abused his position and made it clear that he values Orc lives over that of any other Horde race, so it's very possible and plausible that the title will not be used any longer. It shall be Vol'jin for the Trolls, Baine for the Tauren, Jastor Gallywix for the Goblins, Lor'themar for the Sin'dorei and Sylvanas for the Forsaken.

    Who will be the leader of the Orcs? Who knows. Knowing Blizzard, it's likely going to be Thrall again, with Garrosh redeeming himself at the last moment and dying like his father in a very melodramatic and clichéd manner. But perhaps they'll surprise me? They may simply beat Garrosh down and leave him as leader of the Orcs, stripping him of the title of Warchief. Thrall might even die, himself. Or maybe Saurfang, Eitrigg or Nazgrim will step up. Who is to say?

    I just doubt they'll keep using "Warchief" after this debacle.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Nindoriel View Post
    Can this change in leadership be done without feeling strange?
    I'll ask you this then; can this change in leadership -not- be done without feeling strange?

    It'd be much more strange to leave Garrosh as warchief after the horrible atrocities he's committed. He's alienated almost the entire Horde. Every playable faction will be standing against him in 5.3.

    He might not die, but he sure as hell won't still be warchief after 5.4.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Nindoriel View Post
    Can this change in leadership be done without feeling strange?
    Nope. Unless they rework the old world AGAIN to reflect the new changes and new storylines. Which I doubt they have any time for without a very good reason.

    So either:
    - You'll see the new Warchief being reworked into the older zones, which screws up the storylines. Can you imagine leveling a Goblin and you rescue Thrall, only to report to the new Warchief Thrall that he's been saved? Or can you imagine Lor'themar ordering the Horde airships to attack the Alliance so recklessly in the Twilight Highlands intro? Can you imagine Vol'jin throwing a guy off a cliff? Yeah...

    - Or the Warchief randomly changes person at lvl 95 while keeping the leveling zones intact. This seems the most likely, but it screws with continuity.
    People will really wonder "Where did this guy come from? Wtf?" kinda like with Deathwing. So seeing how most people thought Deathwing was a lame boss because they didn't know him, people will also think the new Warchief is lame unless you get to know him during the leveling experience.

    Yeah, I don't think there's an easy solution.

    The switch in Wrath that brought Varian back was relatively easy because Bolvar wasn't featured in many quests. They only had to rework a little bit (the Onyxia questchain was the hardest part). With Garrosh they need to rework quite a lot of zones.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Nindoriel View Post
    What if we don't actually kill him. In fact, when I think about it, it would be a bit weird for the game to have a different warchief at some point. They would either have to use phases to make it work, or it will feel weird to have a certain warchief greeting you in Orgrimmar at level 1, and then having so much story about Garrosh in the zones, even up to Pandaria. Sure, technically that is in the past, but will they then only make you see the new warchief in Orgrimmar when you're 90? Or 91-95? What will happen when patch 5.4 releases, will Garrosh still stand around in Orgrimmar?
    Garrosh is already in three different areas. Not good enough reason to not kill and dethrone him.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nindoriel View Post
    Can this change in leadership be done without feeling strange?
    Considering that we've seen what, six months of story saying "Garrosh is getting his ass dethroned", no change in leadership would be even stranger.

  12. #32
    Banned Trassk's Avatar
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    People just don't seem to understand in any work of fiction there is a moral line that when a character crosses, there is no stepping back from it. That applies to the genre and its setting itself, and from that you can outright tell where that moral line is. Even Sylvanas and what she does in Tirisfal and silverpine, has not had her cross that moral line yet, because despite her wicked way, she doesn't stab any horde allies in the back of the head, claim dominance over others with fear, and makes her own people appear worse then they already were.

    Garrosh has already crossed that line. Even Grom didn't stab his own allies in the back (his insanity brought on by demonic corruption doesn't count), and now Garrosh is killing the hordes own, those who are sick of his domination

  13. #33
    The Lightbringer Gobra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Justforthis123 View Post
    Since Vol'Jin is the already decided next warchief .. I cant think of your hypothetical situation.
    You talk about someones hypothetical situation by making one up yourself?:P don't make things up now

    OT: noone would suspect that, but with the Siege of Orgrimmar raid, i don't think he will stay the leader
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    They say that the best weapon is the one you never have to fire. I respectfully disagree. I prefer the weapon you only have to fire once. That's how Dad did it, that's how America does it, and it's worked out pretty well so far. I present to you the newest in Stark Industries' Freedom line. Find an excuse to let one of these off the chain, and I personally guarantee, the bad guys won't even wanna come out of their caves. Ladies and gentlemen, for your consideration... the Jericho.

  14. #34
    Herald of the Titans Wishblade's Avatar
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    Garrosh remaining as Warchief after the things he's done? I don't even have to list it, after all that crap I can't see him staying as Warchief, the other leaders will not let it happen. Garrosh is likely gonna die or if not, kept prisoner or something. He's not leading the Orcs or the Horde after this.
    "Reminds me of a dog, you stare at it while it's playing outside... Running around in a circle, then stopping up, wagging with a wide "grin". Jumping around until you call for the dog, then it lowers its tail because it think it's done something bad... And then you throw the ball, seeing the tail go straight into the air in bliss! ^^" - Gehco
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  15. #35
    Banned Trassk's Avatar
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    Do players ever try to come down to a lore characters perspective and try and understand the dynamics of the whats happening in the world around them? NO, players are simply not that imaginative.

  16. #36
    There's no reason they'll keep Garrosh in power. Can you imagine how angry the playerbases of BOTH factions would be if the final raid to remove him from power turned out to fail, or they did a copout 'I was possessed by Pride, I'll be a good warchief now?' It just won't happen. They replaced Thrall, Bolvar, Cairne and Magni, there's no reason they can't replace Garrosh.


    What they'll do is probably either rely on gameplay/story segregation until 6.0 or 5.5 if there is a 5.5, just as for example you can still see Krasus and Rhonin despite the fact they're both dead in lore. Or, alternatively, they'll either phase or altar grommash hold in some way.

    After MoP, quests that have you interacting with Garrosh in Orgrimmar can either be phased, or changed/removed outright, just as they removed battle for the undercity. Quests where you meet him out in the world like twilight highlands won't need to be changed, just as Thrall is still tagged as warchief in Icecrown. They'll likely either phase it or perhaps remove/altar quests like the ones leading into the twilight highlands.

  17. #37
    The Insane GennGreymane's Avatar
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    it is very possible for garrosh to win

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  18. #38
    Over 9000! Nindoriel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Madgod View Post
    Garrosh is already in three different areas. Not good enough reason to not kill and dethrone him.



    Considering that we've seen what, six months of story saying "Garrosh is getting his ass dethroned", no change in leadership would be even stranger.
    The problem is not having him in multiple areas, the problem is it would not fit together if he was completely removed as warchief for everyone, and having multiple phases seems complicated too.

  19. #39
    Brewmaster Breccia's Avatar
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    For Garrosh to remain Warchief? This is the only way I could think of that it would happen:

    1) Garrosh was proven to be controlled by an outside entity
    2) When the source of control is exposed, Garrosh has to immediately turn against it, as well as any actions taken during his time controlled.
    3) The source of control has to be certifiably destroyed.
    4) This change has to follow a nearly superhuman change in willpower and character.

    Why do I think this? Because this is exactly what happened with Varian and Onyxia, and they left him in charge of the Allilance.

    So who's the parallel? Malkorok. Maybe he's a black dragon, or the Sha of Pride in humanoid form. I find both highly unlikely, incidentally. But he'd have to be some kind of controlling influence of evil for this situation to unfold. Upon learning this, Garrosh has to immediately have a huge, public, "I have a Grandma? SOB SOB SOB"-esque change of heart, followed immediately by him personally ripping Malkorok's head off and putting it on a spike in Orgrimmar. Seems like it'd work...at first.

    The problem, however, is that Garrosh started putting his talents into Complete Violent Jerkbag spec way back in Northrend. What we've seen is not a change in Garrosh that makes him seem like he's controlled recently (as in, this expansion), but him continuing down a path since his introduction. So if he was controlled, it'd have to be something far earlier in his history, maybe even Burning Crusade. Plus, Garrosh's actions have a much wider spread than anything Varian did while controlled himself. Controlled Varian didn't raze villages, turn his own troops into soulless monsters, or maim children with exceptionally large musical instruments. So, to remain Warchief, he would have to have a MASSIVE redesign in leadership, which at this point, would almost certainly require a council of the Horde leaders rather than his current dictator-like status, willingness to work with Alliance, and dedication to an act of almost unimpeachable goodness.

    And what could possibly do this?

    The blood of Mannaroth, on Gorehowl, forcing a concentrated level of Blood Curse on Garrosh. Malkorok is an agent of the Burning Legion, sent in to help guide the highly-destructive, cursed, obedient Garosh into acts that weaken Azeroth for another invasion. Garrosh would have to break free of the control, kill Malkorok, and immediately work with both the Black Prince and the Alliance to form a massive counter-invasion force for the next expansion. Because, honestly, who better to lead that charge, based purely on family history?

    Do I think this will happen? No. But it's the only way I could think of that lets Garrosh remain as Warchief at the end of this expansion.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Nindoriel View Post
    The problem is not having him in multiple areas, the problem is it would not fit together if he was completely removed as warchief for everyone, and having multiple phases seems complicated too.
    That's not a problem. The events of TBC happened before Wrath, right? And that before Cata, yes?

    Pandaren from the Wandering Isle, something discovered around the time Mists' story began, have to go through those zones, whos stories are in the past.

    It's simple suspension of lore in favor of gameplay. It's been done before with no ill consequences and it will continue to be done for years to come. Why should it matter this time around?

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