Dungeon Deserter - Why is it still there?

[Mordredofmia]

In theory that's what it's SUPPOSED to do. The reality is that players, especially tanks, still leave right after zoning in. Or they stick around until the first boss is dead and then leave.

Personally I support a scaling system that raises the penalty length dependent on how in-demand your role is. Tanks, who have near instant queue's, would get a longer penalty.

This is a stupid idea. You think you'll be "Teaching those tanks a lesson" but the only thing this will do is make everyone's queue times go up because it isn't going to stop anyone from leaving a group

[Silarynn]

It really should be removed...or at least have it's timer reduced.

Why do PvPers get a 15 minute de-buff and we PvE'ers get a 30 minute?

[MrHappy]

i can answer that question in one word.........Occulus

[SherbertLand]

Personally, I'd like to see the Deserter Debuff become more painful -- like applying to PvE & PvP equally, maybe even autokilling your character or applying a minor (-1% to -5%) stats debuff. I've dropped my fair share of groups, and I always thought that being able to turn immediately from queing for PvE/PvP to PvP/PvE made the debuff irrelevant.

Edit: And I've had the "joined 4 LFRs, never seen boss #1" issue myself quite a few times myself (in Cata). The que system doesn't need a "fresh run only" option -- honestly, how many people would not check that box??

If it had a stats debuff it would restrict the player from doing anything for the duration of the buff, that's not the goal and it's kind of sick for you to want that to be a goal. It does inconvenience you, but not that much. At this point you just want to make people's life difficult.

[Nevor]

I don't want to abandon a group after 2 bosses, so I left.

so... you DON'T want to abandon a group after 2 bosses but you DO leave the group you just joined after boss 2? what's the difference???

i'm really sick of people entering half-finished raids and leaving right away... especially tanks... every single time i do LFR a tank leaves for some reason and its nearly impossible to find a new one because every single tank that joins is leaving like you do... right away... the rest waits and waits and waits and then everybody starts to leave and the raid is done for everyone... THAT is messed up and i would give people like you a deserter buff for the whole day if i was able to do so...

[Mordredofmia]

so... you DON'T want to abandon a group after 2 bosses but you DO leave the group you just joined after boss 2? what's the difference???

i'm really sick of people entering half-finished raids and leaving right away... especially tanks... every single time i do LFR a tank leaves for some reason and its nearly impossible to find a new one because every single tank that joins is leaving like you do... right away... the rest waits and waits and waits and then everybody starts to leave and the raid is done for everyone... THAT is messed up and i would give people like you a deserter buff for the whole day if i was able to do so...

But why is it the tanks fault if he joined a group full of screw-ups who couldn't down a boss and he doesn't want to run LFR twice to get his valor/gear/whatever. What if he only has time to run one LFR, not wait in queue for another one after helping some strangers do the one they couldn't finish.

The easy answer is "It isn't. So he should not be punished for not wanting to inconvenience himself for others"

[SherbertLand]

But why is it the tanks fault if he joined a group full of screw-ups who couldn't down a boss and he doesn't want to run LFR twice to get his valor/gear/whatever. What if he only has time to run one LFR, not wait in queue for another one after helping some strangers do the one they couldn't finish.

The easy answer is "It isn't. So he should not be punished for not wanting to inconvenience himself for others"

It's not about whose fault it is, it's about the experience of everyone. If a tank feels his time is worth more than everyone elses, that's fine, but he's going to have to wait a bit.

[Deleted]

It really should be removed...or at least have it's timer reduced.

Why do PvPers get a 15 minute de-buff and we PvE'ers get a 30 minute?

Subject yourself to the joys of healing a random BG and that will stop being a mystery to you.

[ZakAtack]

I support the suggestion that if they implement a "Fresh run only" queue, then when you get that group, you're not eligible for replacements. You want to skip out on helping other groups finish? Then you don't get the benefits of having other people do that for you.

Ultimately, it's short-sighted when people drop group on a non-fresh run. You don't want to do half and then have to requeue? So you drop group to sit through deserter and then...requeue. And at least if you finish, the system tries to put you in a fresh queue. I'm pretty sure you'll see this almost guaranteed once LFR is out for a bit longer and groups get better at it, so you won't have as many groups falling apart mid-run due to wipes. But if you drop, you've got a decent chance still of just getting into another in progress run. Which you'll drop and then...requeue again.

While I understand to the individual, their desire to get one full run is more important to them than helping 24 others finish theirs, at the same time people should realize the system is obviously going to place more value on the 24 waiting for one more so they can finish their run.

[Nevor]

But why is it the tanks fault if he joined a group full of screw-ups who couldn't down a boss and he doesn't want to run LFR twice to get his valor/gear/whatever. What if he only has time to run one LFR, not wait in queue for another one after helping some strangers do the one they couldn't finish.

The easy answer is "It isn't. So he should not be punished for not wanting to inconvenience himself for others"

what are you talking about?
i'm talking about tanks leaving right away after a couple of seconds and seeing its not a new instance...
the raid is no screw-up and just missing a tank and LFR is always a group of strangers...
and leaving and re-queuing a 2nd time will even cost him more time thanks to the debuff...

and let me tell you something about tanks...
i have seen TONS of really really bad tanks since TOT LFR started...
- at least 1 tank has no clue at all about boss strategy and has the tanking strategy explained to him, then does everything wrong...
- at least 1 tank has a number of blue items and/or damage dealer items on, because the item level that got him in is from damage equip. during boss fight he can't hold aggro, takes excessive damage and dies... then leaves because of being embarrassed...
and that's an inconvenience to who?

[HardCoder]

From people like me? Did you even TRY to read what I wrote?
I didn't leave out of spite, I didn't leave because I want to ruin it for a group, I left because I had missed the fact they had already taken down 2 bosses and I didn't want to have to join twice for the same raid and in the end having to leave a different group after the first 2 bosses.

Do you understand that now?

And I've had groups so bad they can't deal with trash, I've had moments where getting the debuff made no sense at all.

Everyone here has tried to make sense out of it for you.

If you queue for a random instance, you stick with the group, no matter what, or you are (very mildly) punished.

The fact that some random groups are worse than others is just how the universe rolls baby.

[bohapjut]

if you could queue for a specific boss it wouldn't be a problem

[yurano]

In short, I think it's bloody idiotic. Because in other cases it might even punish you for being in a terrible group. No matter how much you try to talk to the group or get the group together to beat an encounter, they will still fail and YOU will get punished for leaving them.

Not sure why this debuff is still in the game, it prevents nothing.

Dungeon Deserter's been around for the longest time yet most people don't really understand how it works despite its simplicity.

Unless its criteria has changed since Cata, Dungeon Deserter only affects people who leave within ~15 mins of joining the dungeon without dying. This criteria is pretty easy to abuse if you're impatient.

[Icaras]

Simple reason: As a deterrent. Think of it as being similar to a security guard on the door of a shop. Legally they can't force you to do anything or even accuse you of anything unless they witness it. But the main reason they're there is not to catch theieves (thought they can do that if they witness it) but to basically deter would be theievs. Lotta folks will see that somebody is up front asking to check bags, get scared and decide NOT to try and steal something.


its a similar idea with the debuff. Sure some folks won't care. But many others will think about how long they were in the queue, how long they will have to be in it again AFTER the debuff and decide to just stay.

Can you imagine what a nightmare in progress runs would be if folks weren't encourage to stay? Just think for yourself how annoyed YOU would be OP, if you got your fresh run, half the raid bailed 2 bosses in and everyone else did what you do: bailed because it wasn't fresh. I bet you'd be back here calling for the buff to come back.

[kaikoraimi]

If it had a stats debuff it would restrict the player from doing anything for the duration of the buff

Absolutely untrue. A 5% stats debuff would be an inconvenience, but it wouldn't prevent someone from questing. If 5% stats made the difference between "playable" and not, people would be harassing druids, paladins, and monks all the time for "necessary" buffs. (Also, note that it is completely possible to do most dailies while rez sick--including a number of Isle of Thunder dailies--you just have to be careful.)

The point of such a more "painful" debuff is to make someone think twice about dropping a group prematurely, and to actually cause a bit of inconvenience, rather than the laughable wrist slap the present debuff is.

[Solonar]

In some cases the Desserter Buff is rather swift and without any form of mercy. If you wonder why I say this is mainly because sometimes when you queue for LFR, you get into a group but said group is already on a boss. Now, if you are not a tank or healer, in other words - DPS, you'd have spent 15-30 to even 45 minutes in a queue (unless you're really lucky). So you'd have to wait for them to finish the boss first prior to coming in. So not only do you lose an additional 7-10 minutes, but also potential loot of that one boss you really needed.

In other cases, it's extremely justified. Not everybody really cares and goes to do something else - but other people are like: I'll leave and just re-queue. *looks at desserter debuff* FFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU....

Live with it is all I can really say.

[Mormolyce]

Well to stop people from constantly joining and dropping.

I just joined a Terrace of Spring group but when I got in I noticed they had already taken down 2 bosses, I want the whole deal and I don't want to abandon a group after 2 bosses, so I left. Now I'm stuck with a 30 minute debuff for it.

They deliberately removed your ability to see which bosses were already down to stop you doing this sort of thing. It may feel shitty but if everyone could do that with no down side we'd go back to people constantly leaving after every boss and the queue struggling to back fill partial lockouts because everyone wants a fresh run. It made LFR frustrating. Just down the 2 bosses and re-queue for the others.