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  1. #21
    The gameplay (from a very general perspective) hasn't changed much from expansion to expansion. It was always....Level > Dungeons > Quests > Raid > PvP.
    That said, I can't think of many other extensions to the game that could be added.

    It also wouldn't make sense for Blizzard to "move on" from WoW and focus on Titan. With ~10 mil subs, WoW is still one of the top revenue generators for Blizzard (if not THE top). Regardless of declining subs, it doesn't make financial sense for them to take resources off the game when it's still thriving. Also, considering that they don't have key players working on multiple games, I would assume that Titan has their own dedicated team. WoW wouldn't be able to function smoothly with a skeleton crew, so it would be ill-advised for Blizzard to shift WoW resources to Titan.

    I'm sure the heads over at Blizzard don't foresee WoW dying any time soon. Titan (when it's eventually released) will most likely be a new market for Blizzard to reach out to...very much like Starcraft and Diablo. From a financial standpoint, it makes no sense to cannibalize their own fan base.

  2. #22
    Over 9000! Baar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rivin View Post
    I'll never understand why people expect WoW to suddenly be different every expansion.

    When I picked up Twilight Princess, I expected it to follow the same formula as its predecessor, Wind Waker, and it did.
    When I picked up Metroid Prime 2, I expected it to play the same as Metroid Prime 1, and it did.
    When I picked up Pokemon White, I expected it to be an upgraded version of Pokemon Platinum, and it was.
    When I picked up Mists of Pandaria, I expected it to be like Cataclysm, and Wrath of the Lich King, and The Burning Crusade, and it was.

    Why do people expect something that's not WoW when they play WoW?
    This is something I don't understand either. Not every game has to have some new innovation in it. Some of us like the game just how it is and only want to continue the story.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Rivin View Post
    I'll never understand why people expect WoW to suddenly be different every expansion.

    When I picked up Twilight Princess, I expected it to follow the same formula as its predecessor, Wind Waker, and it did.
    When I picked up Metroid Prime 2, I expected it to play the same as Metroid Prime 1, and it did.
    When I picked up Pokemon White, I expected it to be an upgraded version of Pokemon Platinum, and it was.
    When I picked up Mists of Pandaria, I expected it to be like Cataclysm, and Wrath of the Lich King, and The Burning Crusade, and it was.

    Why do people expect something that's not WoW when they play WoW?
    I agree with this to an extent, however keep in mind that the games you listed are generally considered fine sequels, but not nearly as revolutionary as prior entries in the series.

    The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time took the series into 3D and introduced Z-targetting.
    Metroid Prime also took the series into 3D and crafted a unique "First Person Adventure" experience that was similar to nothing else available at the time.

    Pokemon and WoW expansions don't introduce major gameplay changes and innovations with sequels/expansions. That's fine. However, as a result of that, people are going to get burnt out. One of the main reasons series like Zelda, Mario and Final Fantasy (pre-FF XII) are so huge even 20+ years later is because many entries within their franchises are revolutionary either in gameplay mechanics or graphics. World of Warcraft hasn't even attempted to do anything revolutionary with the MMO genre since its release, and again, that's fine...but if you're curious as to why WoW is slowly but surely bleeding out...look no farther than the fact that it's an 8 year old game whose tricks aren't impressing many anymore.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post
    I want less hand holding, less seed quests, less direction, and more "go out and explore and just....find stuff"

    You would have loved Asheron's Call back in the day. I want all that too, along with decision and risk taking that leads to a better gaming experience. But I digress.

    Being an MMO developer is a tough spot. You invariably need a lot of income, since so many are very expensive to create, and require far more maintenance than a single player title. And to 'break the mold' for lack of a better term, and create something where the players themselves, through interaction and conflict, are responsible for a lot of the content, requires buy-in from the players themselves. In other words, the worlds most amazing sandbox will be awful if it's not populated... and that's no easy feat.

    Which is probably why you see so few gameplay risks being taken, and far more of a 'single player experience wrapped in an MMO giftbox' stance being offered these days.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-03 at 01:53 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Rivin View Post
    Why do people expect something that's not WoW when they play WoW?
    I ask the same thing every time I see a post stating that leveling takes too long.
    Benevolence is a luxury for the strong - Wrathion

  5. #25
    Yes, that's all you can expect. I'm sure they will continue to implement new features, but the overall gameplay will stay the same. TBC, Wotlk and so on are EXPANSIONS, NOT SEQUELS. And even sequels don't change core mechanics of a game very often.

    I'm not sure if there will be some groundbreaking MMORPG coming in the future, but I'm sure you'll hear of it when it comes, so don't worry about it. My advice would be to try out some other games (genres you didn't try before?) and take a break from WoW if you think it's becoming stale for you. Or take a break from gaming completely.

  6. #26
    Over 9000! Nindoriel's Avatar
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    I doubt the validity of that titan "leak"

    I'm not really sure what you're criticizing about wow, you seem to be very unspecific.
    Last edited by Nindoriel; 2013-04-03 at 05:59 PM.

  7. #27
    "There are no new ideas. There are only new ways of making them felt." ~ Audre Lorde
    There are only so many stories to be told, and so many ways to tell them. Nothing is really new. Movies, books, cartoons, TV shows... and games. Each of them tells a story of a hero, who must face insurmountable odds, overcome evil, and triumph in the end. Who the good guy is, is subjective. Ultimately, the story of the LK was outstanding, but will never be duplicated. They shot their wad by introducing the LK so early on. Should have been Vanilla>BC>Cata>Mop>Wrath>Sargeras (or whatever). They put the return of the jedi in before attack of the clones and basically rendored it useless. Same thing in the game. Arthas is iconic. Sha of (insert dumb idea here) is not.

  8. #28
    Over 9000! Baar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Virtua View Post
    I agree with this to an extent, however keep in mind that the games you listed are generally considered fine sequels, but not nearly as revolutionary as prior entries in the series.

    The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time took the series into 3D and introduced Z-targetting.
    Metroid Prime also took the series into 3D and crafted a unique "First Person Adventure" experience that was similar to nothing else available at the time.

    Pokemon and WoW expansions don't introduce major gameplay changes and innovations with sequels/expansions. That's fine. However, as a result of that, people are going to get burnt out. One of the main reasons series like Zelda, Mario and Final Fantasy (pre-FF XII) are so huge even 20+ years later is because many entries within their franchises are revolutionary either in gameplay mechanics or graphics. World of Warcraft hasn't even attempted to do anything revolutionary with the MMO genre since its release, and again, that's fine...but if you're curious as to why WoW is slowly but surely bleeding out...look no farther than the fact that it's an 8 year old game whose tricks aren't impressing many anymore.
    How many years between zelda 1 and OoT? How many different systems between the two?

    How many years between Metroid and Metroid Prime? How many different systems between the two?

    Not only are you talking years different you are talking totally new technology used to create those games.

  9. #29
    Fluffy Kitten Rivin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Virtua View Post
    I agree with this to an extent, however keep in mind that the games you listed are generally considered fine sequels, but not nearly as revolutionary as prior entries in the series.

    The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time took the series into 3D and introduced Z-targetting.
    Metroid Prime also took the series into 3D and crafted a unique "First Person Adventure" experience that was similar to nothing else available at the time.

    Pokemon and WoW expansions don't introduce major gameplay changes and innovations with sequels/expansions. That's fine. However, as a result of that, people are going to get burnt out. One of the main reasons series like Zelda, Mario and Final Fantasy (pre-FF XII) are so huge even 20+ years later is because many entries within their franchises are revolutionary either in gameplay mechanics or graphics. World of Warcraft hasn't even attempted to do anything revolutionary with the MMO genre since its release, and again, that's fine...but if you're curious as to why WoW is slowly but surely bleeding out...look no farther than the fact that it's an 8 year old game whose tricks aren't impressing many anymore.
    That's why I specifically chose sequels instead of "new" games. Ocarina of Time was revolutionary, yes. Majora's Mask, Wind Waker, Twilight Princess, and Skyward Sword have all followed its formula pretty closely, changing details but not the fundamental structure of the game.

    Using that example, Classic WoW was the revolutionary one, and its expansions have been its sequels--all following the same formula, with their own little changes and additions that don't alter the basic fundamentals of the game. They're each different while still being recognizably WoW, just like Ocarina of Time's sequels were all different while still being recognizably 3D-era Legend of Zelda games.

    People play Zelda games because they enjoy what Zelda games are. People play WoW expansions because they enjoy what WoW is. Why should it change into something else?

  10. #30
    I don't understand "is this all" when this expansion offers more than any previous one except the one that replaced a WoW-shaped hole with WoW

  11. #31
    Everything gets old after awhile.

    I ended my subscription this month, after being continuous since 2004, save for maybe 2 months. I have just over 170k HKs, 12k Achieve Points, 120+ mounts, and leveled every class, except ironically a Warlock to end game. I believe I've seen 95% of what this game has to offer.

    I think this game is amazing, and has continued to improve patch over patch. And every new thing can keep me occupied and having fun for a few weeks. PvP, Raids, Scenario Farming, Rep grinds, Role-Play and more - been there done that, and hell - it was fun. Sure somethings lasted much longer than others - I've never felt the same anticipation for a raid since we unlocked Heroic ICC, never felt the same nostalgia bout a place until I visited Mulgore after the cataclysm and never been flat out "wowed" by Pandaria.

    But there comes a time where it's just not doing what it used to do for you. It's like a relationship - the relationship either grows or succumbs to being boring and repetitive.

    It may be burn out, it may be boredom, it may be the nature of the game. But I feel there are a few key issues that are beginning to sour veterans (I say veterans because a new player won't ever have to deal with an hour of LF1M Tank Heroic or LF VC, have to level from 50-60 like vanilla, know how to effectively CC on the fly when shit goes bad in a heroic ... et cetera)

    For me the biggest issues with the current state of the game are:

    1) Healers are outrageously strong. I don't really know any one who would argue otherwise. There may be debate among the healers as to who is the strongest - PvP vs PvE, but the fact remains the same, right now - the most enjoyable experience (fast queue times, durability in pvp and general raid team desirableness) is as a competent healer.

    2) Assault on Alt-Characters. I don't have a problem with focusing on a single character, in fact part of me wishes I had just stayed with my Druid back in 2004. But when the ability to level and gear up an alt became laughably fast (which isn't a bad thing) for 2 expansions in a row, then there's a sudden reversal with a required time investment on a single character to be competitive at end game, it's irritating!

    3) WoW community has been declining. Civility and patience were never among the pre-requisites for WoW, but back in my day! When some one was struggling in a 5 man, we coached em. When some one asked a question, we'd give a smart ass answer, but an accurate one. Sure bigotry and racism existed, but now its something like "Oh he's BR, fuck this beaner, kick." I just don't find the game's social aspect to be as endearing as it once was.

    4) At its core, for better or worse, WoW is the same game when it was released. The new models tend to be recolor'd/rerendered old ones (Cata Ascendants / Consortium). The questing is still the same, sure it's improved in diversity and sophistication, but you're stilling collecting x of y, killing a of b, etc. PvP has probably been the aspect of the game that's seen the most fundamental changes, resilience, to new resilience, to even newer resilience, to pvp power, to no more resilience.


    Either way, there comes a time when you've gotta decide - is this game still fun to play? For me, not any more. The best part about warcraft for me now, is the nostalgia.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Rivin View Post
    That's why I specifically chose sequels instead of "new" games. Ocarina of Time was revolutionary, yes. Majora's Mask, Wind Waker, Twilight Princess, and Skyward Sword have all followed its formula pretty closely, changing details but not the fundamental structure of the game.

    Using that example, Classic WoW was the revolutionary one, and its expansions have been its sequels--all following the same formula, with their own little changes and additions that don't alter the basic fundamentals of the game. They're each different while still being recognizably WoW, just like Ocarina of Time's sequels were all different while still being recognizably 3D-era Legend of Zelda games.

    People play Zelda games because they enjoy what Zelda games are. People play WoW expansions because they enjoy what WoW is. Why should it change into something else?
    Skyward Sword, as much as I dislike it, was a revolutionary entry into the Zelda franchise with the motion controls. It fully utilizes the technology of the Wii. Wind Waker brought a unique cel-shaded art style to the table and a huge, expansive world to explore that is still, to this day, considered pretty big.

    Metroid Prime released 8 years after Super Metroid, and went in a completely unexpected direction as far as gameplay goes (people would have laughed at you if you said "Metroid 4 is going to be first person" back in the 90s), yet at the same time it remained true to the spirit of the franchise.

    I don't think anyone wants WoW to change into something it isn't. However, it would serve Blizzard well to step slightly out of its safe zone once in a while when developing content for WoW. Furthermore, though MoP looks nice, the graphics of WoW could use a severe overhaul...they need to get those updated character models out as soon as possible, and work on updating basic enemy models at some point.

  13. #33
    Bloodsail Admiral Rivyr's Avatar
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    MoP is quite engageing if you slow down and read the quests and listen to the dialogue.

  14. #34
    Over 9000! Baar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Virtua View Post
    Skyward Sword, as much as I dislike it, was a revolutionary entry into the Zelda franchise with the motion controls. It fully utilizes the technology of the Wii. Wind Waker brought a unique cel-shaded art style to the table and a huge, expansive world to explore that is still, to this day, considered pretty big.

    Metroid Prime released 8 years after Super Metroid, and went in a completely unexpected direction as far as gameplay goes (people would have laughed at you if you said "Metroid 4 is going to be first person" back in the 90s), yet at the same time it remained true to the spirit of the franchise.

    I don't think anyone wants WoW to change into something it isn't. However, it would serve Blizzard well to step slightly out of its safe zone once in a while when developing content for WoW. Furthermore, though MoP looks nice, the graphics of WoW could use a severe overhaul...they need to get those updated character models out as soon as possible, and work on updating basic enemy models at some point.
    Metroid was released in 1986 on the NES

    16 years and 3 systems later

    Metroid prime was released in 2002 on the Gamecube

    And no. As a huge metroid fan it wasn't unheard of to want it in 3D. As soon as the N64 came out people were begging for it to come out in 3D.

  15. #35
    The Insane Didactic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rivyr View Post
    MoP is quite engageing if you slow down and read the quests and listen to the dialogue.
    The first time around. The whole problem with this expansion is that it is ridiculously punitive towards alts.
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
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  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Baar View Post
    Metroid was released in 1986 on the NES

    16 years and 3 systems later

    Metroid prime was released in 2002 on the Gamecube

    And no. As a huge metroid fan it wasn't unheard of to want it in 3D. As soon as the N64 came out people were begging for it to come out in 3D.
    Super Metroid (Metroid 3) came out in 1994. Metroid Prime came out in 2002.

    Everyone wanted Metroid in 3D. However, no one expected it to be in First Person. I don't think anyone expected the successor to Super Metroid to be a first person shooter that somehow kept the feel of the franchise.

  17. #37
    Pandaren Monk Darksoldierr's Avatar
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    Did i miss a Titan announcement? Or you mean the leaked infos?
    Time is on our side
    Brutal Gladiator Enhancement Shaman *rawr*

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    The first time around. The whole problem with this expansion is that it is ridiculously punitive towards alts.
    No, not really. I guess you have to put in some effort if you want them raid geared, but I have no problem with that.

  19. #39
    Pandaren Monk Darksoldierr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    The first time around. The whole problem with this expansion is that it is ridiculously punitive towards alts.
    Sole reason i dont have a single alt is the fact, that i have to go trough EVERYTHING, i quitted before cata, so now i would have to do all wotlk / cata and mop leveling, and if i would do that, i would poke my own eyes out while laughing
    Time is on our side
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  20. #40
    Bloodsail Admiral Rivyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    The first time around. The whole problem with this expansion is that it is ridiculously punitive towards alts.
    I dont feel this, I have enjoyed leveling my alts. takeing my time in one zone vs another to see things I might have missed. Its just not a faceroll like cata.

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