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  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by jtmzac View Post
    I'd like a mage version of skull banner. It's such a good raid cd.
    That's what I was thinking when I suggested this:
    Quote Originally Posted by Milamber View Post
    How about converting Icy Veins, Arcane Power and Combustion into Raid-Wide Cooldowns? (think Skull Banner / Bloodlust)

    Icy Veins: Increases melee, ranged, and spell haste by 20% for all party and raid members. Lasts 20 sec. 3 min cooldown
    Arcane Power: Increases mastery by 20% for all party and raid members. Lasts 20 sec. 3 min cooldown
    Combustion: Increases critical strike chance by 20% for all party and raid members. Lasts 20 sec. 3 min cooldown
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  2. #102
    Dreadlord
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    Never ever!!! That would have an influence to our rotation.

  3. #103
    TacTican, your suggestions look nice although one wont see daylight:
    Glyph of Guided Missiles - Your Arcane Missiles now ignore line-of-sight restrictions.

    I guess it will be too OP for Arena, so will never happen, as Blizz seems to scale everything back and forth around PvP.

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by Gawain View Post
    TacTican, your suggestions look nice although one wont see daylight:
    Glyph of Guided Missiles - Your Arcane Missiles now ignore line-of-sight restrictions.

    I guess it will be too OP for Arena, so will never happen, as Blizz seems to scale everything back and forth around PvP.
    Arcane Missiles have always ignored LoS if you cast it at any point when the target was in LoS. So do all channeled spells. If you mean being able to cast it on targets out of LoS...that's broken in PvP and I can't remember the last time a PvE encounter had heavy enough LoS issues that would require this mechanic.

  5. #105
    Warchief Akraen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milamber View Post
    That's what I was thinking when I suggested this:
    I don't ever, ever, ever want that type of raid utility. The best part about mage is not having to care about what others are doing.

  6. #106
    The Unstoppable Force Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarion View Post
    That's what's gotten us into this mess in the first place. More depth and complexity from encounters, not specs, please.
    Depth and complexity should be only for certain specs and maybe a little in each but taking away all complexity and depth from all Mages would be silly. I don't believe it got us here in the first place. What got us here is just old things getting old and need something different. I can't speak for Arcane since I'm fine mostly excluding Mana generation. Fire needs something to do good DPS even with RNG god spitting on your face.
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  7. #107
    Let me clarify that statement a little. As the game progressed, players got better and better. The novelty began to wear off. in a desperate attempt to give the players something new and challenging the developers turned to the classes and the specs. As humans often do, I think they panicked a little and over compensated. Along came mastery and silly meta-game class specs. Do more damage based on mana! Watch that crit slot machine and get that perfect ignite! It was a mistake that several of the classes suffered from, but mages especially.

    I am not against changes to the class, right now I'd welcome them. However, they must address the stupid level of complexity that has accumulated since Wrath. I think the devs acknowledge this and that is most likely why there are buffs in the works for nearly all of our AOE spells. Our AOE rotation (urgh, when did that become a THING??) Had gotten crazy complicated for the pathetic damage it did.

    I DON'T think the class should go back to spamming one nuke all fight like vanilla and BC. I just want specs that are fairly reliable, have a reasonably tight delta between worst and best players, and are FUN.
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  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    Utility

    Regardless of what certain people have said, I don't regard personal utility as raid utility; I feel that at least one "raid CD" aside from Time Warp is merited.

    What I would like to see is a spell in the vein of Mana Tide totem, called Brilliance Aura: a raid-wide CD that increases mana regeneration by some factor or coefficient. It is not an entirely new mechanic, meaning that it would not be impossible to balance, and also has a precedent in the WCIII Archmage spell.
    Just wanted to mention there is a Brilliance Aura ingame. Jaina Proudmoore is using it in Battle for Mount Hyjal. Though it is a Burning Crusade Aura at the moment so not sure if its weak or not. All in all it gives 100% more Spirit to anyone in range (thought I remembered it was higher like 1000 or 300%). Eitherway since Jaina as a Mage has it, I don't see why player mages will not get it sooner or later.

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by Spl4sh3r View Post
    Just wanted to mention there is a Brilliance Aura ingame. Jaina Proudmoore is using it in Battle for Mount Hyjal. Though it is a Burning Crusade Aura at the moment so not sure if its weak or not. All in all it gives 100% more Spirit to anyone in range (thought I remembered it was higher like 1000 or 300%). Eitherway since Jaina as a Mage has it, I don't see why player mages will not get it sooner or later.
    Because of a change to mechanics since that spell was introduced. Back then, Mages got SOME use out of Spirit, and it took till WotLK for it to actually be useful. However, they wouldn't give a class a raid cooldown which is of no benefit to the granting class.

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akraen View Post
    I don't ever, ever, ever want that type of raid utility. The best part about mage is not having to care about what others are doing.
    Except the fact that we need a rogue, hunter or warlock for magic debuff... which is sad on its own.
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  11. #111
    Immortal Polarthief's Avatar
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    Something I heard yesterday was that apparently if you're a Human, the BiS weapon as Fire is the Spirit Crit Sword from Jin'rohk.

    [For those who don't know, Humans get a +1% Expertise bonus when wielding a Sword]

    Truth?

    Kinda sucks we have an HPal and he gets first dibs on Spirit gear (well, over a Mage he would), but should two drop from heroic, or get 2 TF ones, I'm curious if I should bother going for it.


    (I felt that making a new thread for one item seemed dumb, and I looked but couldn't find BiS lists that included the sword for Humans specifically. MrRobot says it is, but only by a few points, and, well, I usually take AMR with a grain of salt after how terrible it was during Cataclysm)
    Last edited by Polarthief; 2013-04-16 at 02:09 PM.

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  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by Dragon9870 View Post
    Something I heard yesterday was that apparently if you're a Human, the BiS weapon as Fire is the Spirit Crit Sword from Jin'rohk.

    [For those who don't know, Humans get a +1% Expertise bonus when wielding a Sword]

    Truth?

    Kinda sucks we have an HPal and he gets first dibs on Spirit gear (well, over a Mage he would), but should two drop from heroic, or get 2 TF ones, I'm curious if I should bother going for it.


    (I felt that making a new thread for one item seemed dumb, and I looked but couldn't find BiS lists that included the sword for Humans specifically)
    You probably should have posted in the Fire guide...not in this thread.

  13. #113
    Immortal Polarthief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I-Swizzle-I View Post
    You probably should have posted in the Fire guide...not in this thread.
    Nyeh, sorry >.>

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  14. #114
    Brewmaster Methusula's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragon9870 View Post
    Something I heard yesterday was that apparently if you're a Human, the BiS weapon as Fire is the Spirit Crit Sword from Jin'rohk.

    [For those who don't know, Humans get a +1% Expertise bonus when wielding a Sword]

    Truth?

    Kinda sucks we have an HPal and he gets first dibs on Spirit gear (well, over a Mage he would), but should two drop from heroic, or get 2 TF ones, I'm curious if I should bother going for it.


    (I felt that making a new thread for one item seemed dumb, and I looked but couldn't find BiS lists that included the sword for Humans specifically)
    Well I don't see why you wouldn't go for it. 1% expertise equates to 400 hit rating, so since this drops off the easiest heroic boss, there is a chance to get the heroic TF version and there is no way I could pass that up. 523 crit, 400 hit and either 175 additional hit or haste from the reforge of spirit. Looks like BiS by a small margin to the dagger and is easier to get.

  15. #115
    Immortal Polarthief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Methusula View Post
    Well I don't see why you wouldn't go for it. 1% expertise equates to 400 hit rating, so since this drops off the easiest heroic boss, there is a chance to get the heroic TF version and there is no way I could pass that up. 523 crit, 400 hit and either 175 additional hit or haste from the reforge of spirit. Looks like BiS by a small margin to the dagger and is easier to get.
    Granted the dagger could drop off him too if lucky, heh.

    Thanks for the info though. I'll see if the HPal really wants the damn thing, heh.

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  16. #116
    Brewmaster Methusula's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragon9870 View Post
    Granted the dagger could drop off him too if lucky, heh.

    Thanks for the info though. I'll see if the HPal really wants the damn thing, heh.
    I like to look pretty too, and I have a lot of sweet swords rotting in my bags. I would be lying if I said that wouldn't influence my desire to use this sword.

  17. #117
    I was actually just thinking about a topic like this. Good to see the discussion has already started (though it seems to be going all over the place by page 6).


    I will post back here some thoughts, both my own and collected from some of the best mages I know. But yes, overall I think its time to start prepping, at least mentally, for the next beta.



    The goal, imho, would be that by the end of this exercise, the mage community should be able to clearly articulate:


    1. The problem.
    Be it the problem with the class, the problem with a spec, or the problem with mages in a specific environment (pvp, pve, raids, arena, etc etc). The key phrase is "clearly articulate". Many times, change is bogged down since people aren't specific or terse enough in explaining the issue they are experiencing or observing. How can something be fixed or bettered when no one can nail down the issue in the first place?
    The first step is to be crystal clear about the problem. If you cannot explain the problem to a non-mage, you probably haven't understood or grasped it well enough yourself to satisfy this requirement.


    2. Remote solutions
    By 'remote solutions' I don't mean solutions of the form "Increase Arcane Blast's damage by 3.4%" for example, I mean solutions that are more interested in showing which direction should be taken, and less interested in mentioning specifics, e.g. a good remote solution could be "Re-introduce the ability and/or tool for the Arcane spec to handily convert Mana into Damage, i.e. bring back some form of the "Burn phase".
    Ideally, remote solutions are ideas and directions you think something should go in. This way, we allow for Blizz to come up with unique and more rounded out precise solutions (precise solutions, imho, are the other form of solutions, ones that target a very specific quantity or quality.


    3. Ideals
    This would probably be a good thread for mages to sit down in and really dig deep about what, ideally, they want from the class and/or a spec. What is the true nature of the Arcane spec? Is it about manipulating time and space? Is it about mana management? What is the core of the spec? What is the identity? What is it for Fire? And Frost? Mages should be able to clearly articulate these ideals. Answering these types of questions will help.



    I think, if mages start with these things, you should be well on your way to ensuring that when the time comes (next beta), people have their sh!t together to take on the storm head on.
    I too will post my thoughts. There are many
    Last edited by zomgDPS; 2013-04-18 at 03:38 PM.

  18. #118
    I will probably disagree with zomgDPS' conclusions (though I'll consider his arguments on their own merit), but this I agree with : clarity of reasoning is paramount. And yes, that means there should be some reasoning.

    While we're on the topic of preliminary guidelines, please for the love of all that is loveable, do not state what is in the end your opinion as a fact ("I think such and such points are problematic because..." vs "This shit is garbage, period"). It's damaging to your credibility and does not serve your argument.

  19. #119

    90 talent suggestions.

    So my ideas for mage changes like many others revolve around the 90 talents. I really think they could be good CD's or fun spells that become rotational but are not new fillers (though I do have an idea for this as well in talents).

    90 talents: Leave Incanter's as is, buff passive to 10% flat or maintain the passive while ability is on cd (removes some of the skill of it but reduces some of the pains with the spell).
    Empower Mage Armor: 1 minute cd 20 second duration Empower's your current mage armor, granting you the effects of each mage armor and doubling your active armor's offensive bonus.
    Rune change scaling rates, make xmin cd (2-3minutes) 10 second duration, conjure a rune of power for 10 seconds that spawns at your location and spans 10 yards. While inside your rune you gain 40% spell damage and 10% of your highest secondary stat (haste crit mastery)

    Really for these I see potential and obvious number tweaking but the ability to give mage's another damage cd. Just my two cents for those. Incanter's would probably need tweaked to be balanced along the other abilities I presented.

    For more rotational abilities I gained some inspiration from D3 wizard class and just playing my mage in general

    Meteor Summon a meteor to crash down at your targets location, causing X fire damage. Any hostile target hit by the blast will be subject to 5% extra damage from the mage for 7 seconds. 20 second cooldown Glyph: Allows your Meteor to be casted at a location instead of a target.

    Mage Beam combine fire arcane and frost magic to launch a powerful beam in front of you for 3 seconds dealing X Arc/fire/frost damage to any hostile target caught in it's path. 25 second cooldown.

    Piercing Ring Conjure a jagged ice circle around your current target lasting 6 seconds. Any spells you cast will empower the Ring increasing the damage it will deal. After 6 seconds it will collapse on your target dealing 50% of the damage done during the duration to be instantly done to the target, and another 25% over 10 seconds. 45 second Cooldown. (It needs a better name)

    The main point of these spells are to give a more fun mix up to the mage rotations, adding another spell to add some dynamic function. Also I feel these spells will add a great visual component to the mage class that feels lacking, especially when you see Ele shams... (stupid elemental blast). I feel these abilities can also grant a strong "minor" cd to the class to be used semi - rotationally.

    These are just my two cents really just think that they'd be fun. I'm no expert on numbers so obviously they all need tuning, but mechanically I feel they all add some interesting dynamic components.
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  20. #120
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