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  1. #141

    My Top Concerns

    1. Level 90 Talents
    On paper they are awesome for arcane, because the way they interact with mastery can drastically change the play style, but for fire or frost they are minor annoyances. In practice: RoP is frustrating, Invocation is boring, Incanter's Ward hard to use and high risk.

    2. Frost's Double Cap
    Keep the Shatter cap, make Icy Veins glyph baseline? Make Shatter scale over 100% crit (similar to Chaos Bolt)? Stacked on top of the hit cap, the crit and haste caps can make gearing frustrating or boring. However, frost's shitty scaling doesn't bother me if Blizzard can tweak the numbers each patch. It's not elegant but it works.

    3. Fire's Crit Scaling
    As I said above, adjusting specs between patches is acceptable. What's not acceptable is a spec that goes from weak or boring to a critfest in a single tier, only to be knocked right back down after the patch.

    4. Arcane Play Style
    I want the burn phase back. If the level 90 talents aren't removed, Invocation should enable the old burn-then-conserve play style.

    5. Minor Glyphs Are Boring
    Yeah okay I ran out of great concerns. Ask someone who does PVP.

  2. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by I-Swizzle-I View Post
    snip
    dont you dare take that portal to real life :/

  3. #143
    However, frost's shitty scaling doesn't bother me if Blizzard can tweak the numbers each patch. It's not elegant but it works.
    Sorry to say, but I think you are a bit off track by stating that, at least for the current tier.
    I guess you play fire normally, since you don't seem to know exactly how well the ratings do scale with frost? And you wont really waste anything, on any stat, ever.
    In fire spec, pumping ekstra haste or mastery will be a small dps upgrade, compared to what u get for optimising crit in any possible way.
    Fire scales extremely well with crit, and basicly crit is the only thing you will get(and always aim to maximize), along with some haste and mastery eventually (in great gear).

    Frost scales very very well with haste, up untill a breakpoint which is likely not even optainable in 5.3 (I might be wrong, maybe it's optainable in bis gear or so)
    Frost scales very well with mastery as of 5.3 as well. 50% of your overall dmg, originates from the 3 sources which mastery impacts upon. Adding more mastery means a fairly great dps increase.
    Frost scales okay with crit as well, up untill the 28% softcap, however, both mastery and haste outweights it once you get properly 5.3 geared.

  4. #144
    Titan Didactic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hasufer View Post
    Frost scales very very well with haste, up untill a breakpoint which is likely not even optainable in 5.3 (I might be wrong, maybe it's optainable in bis gear or so)
    Frost scales very well with mastery as of 5.3 as well. 50% of your overall dmg, originates from the 3 sources which mastery impacts upon. Adding more mastery means a fairly great dps increase.
    Frost scales okay with crit as well, up untill the 28% softcap, however, both mastery and haste outweights it once you get properly 5.3 geared.
    Frost's haste cap is around 50%; it sounds like a lot, but considering active haste buffs this cap is very easily attainable. Its crit scaling is pretty awful since the cap is so low, and I don't get where you think Frost scales "very well" with mastery; it's by far the weakest of the three stats.
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
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  5. #145
    Bloodsail Admiral Nathyiel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    Frost's haste cap is around 50%; it sounds like a lot, but considering active haste buffs this cap is very easily attainable. Its crit scaling is pretty awful since the cap is so low, and I don't get where you think Frost scales "very well" with mastery; it's by far the weakest of the three stats.
    In fact, Frost scale so much good with Haste that even past 50%, Haste is still better than Mastery. Mastery = Haste around 60% passively who can be obtained quickly after 5.4.
    An idea could be to buff waterbolt's damage and/or FFB, or simply Mastery ratio.
    Actually, the ratio is 300 mastery = 1% damage increase from Mastery. How about 275 or 250 for 1%. But it could result in some PvP cry ...
    The answers is 42
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  6. #146
    Titan Didactic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nathyiel View Post
    In fact, Frost scale so much good with Haste that even past 50%, Haste is still better than Mastery. Mastery = Haste around 60% passively who can be obtained quickly after 5.4.
    An idea could be to buff waterbolt's damage and/or FFB, or simply Mastery ratio.
    Actually, the ratio is 300 mastery = 1% damage increase from Mastery. How about 275 or 250 for 1%. But it could result in some PvP cry ...
    What I've heard from Blizzard is that they want the critical strike cap to be the stat that is geared around.
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
    - Thucydides

    There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.
    - Eugen Weber

  7. #147
    Bloodsail Admiral Nathyiel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    What I've heard from Blizzard is that they want the critical strike cap to be the stat that is geared around.
    Oh, I know. Shatter cap could have obtain since 5.1. it's just that past 23%, it don't worth capping it further. And in 5.4, the 28% cap will be obtain through Intel (like in DS).
    If Mastery would have scale better, Crit capping would have been require because the spell that benefice from it can be crit's capped. The only exception being Waterbolt.
    The answers is 42
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  8. #148
    With the latest incanter's ward nerf, I think it is safe to say that the entire level 90 tier is now totally bland and useless.

    Exactly the same damage % across all three with a massive bent towards pretty much everyone taking Invocation. After all, with IW now giving the same top-end dmg % boost as the other two, why take it over Invoc anymore?? The only thing that made IW stand out was the potentially higher damage boost.

    Either way, I think we can safely say that the level 90 talents are good and dead. We need to brainstorm in depth about how to fix them.


    I'm going to find some time to dedicate to breaking down a good framework for brainstorming new level 90 talents since, at this point at least, the band-aid 'fixes' to the level 90 talents are turning this entire mess into a bad joke at best, or making the entire thing look like a badly put together frankenstein monster at worst.

    The monster be killed and something new must take its place.
    "Lord Zom cannot really be stopped, just maybe slowed or distracted. Rest assured, if he's looking at you... you will be melted, very shortly."
    - Frost Mistress Shinzarah "the Banshee"

  9. #149
    Bloodsail Admiral Nathyiel's Avatar
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    now, L90 are only maintenance buff. They could have been a 15% passive buff.
    The answers is 42
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  10. #150
    Good news - they're almost certain to scrap bland 15% passive buffs... right?

    My idea to bring back Arcane's burn phase: further increase Arcane Blast's damage during Arcane Power. 50%, 100%, I don't care as long as AB spam is the best dps during AP. Might have to remove the Glyph of Arcane Power. Might cause tears in PVP (but you let a mage chain cast AB, didn't you?)

  11. #151
    if they want to revert arcane to the cata method that would help more imo. decrease the value arcane gets for mastery and in exchange they could make arcane recover mana based on critical hits as well, and raise haste.

  12. #152
    Quote Originally Posted by announced View Post
    if they want to revert arcane to the cata method that would help more imo. decrease the value arcane gets for mastery and in exchange they could make arcane recover mana based on critical hits as well, and raise haste.
    we had clearcasting since.....i dunno and they decided to got rid of it on Mop which i found pretty sad :/

    doesnt haste already increases our mana regen??? i dont think arcane needs a crit based proc/bonus it already scales nicely unless arcane gets complete overhaul

  13. #153
    Quote Originally Posted by Soulstrike View Post
    we had clearcasting since.....i dunno and they decided to got rid of it on Mop which i found pretty sad :/

    doesnt haste already increases our mana regen??? i dont think arcane needs a crit based proc/bonus it already scales nicely unless arcane gets complete overhaul
    the thing is since we lost clearcasting we cant spam AB anymore. if we cant spam AB fast we cant do burst dps fast. dont say arcane missiles is burst dmg cause it doesnt hit for shit compared to blast. and missiles is a proc its not dependable dmg. perhaps they could raise the missiles cap to 5 or something so we could store missiles and spam them when its needed. that might bring back stack camping but idk i think it'd be a slightly better solution.

  14. #154
    Brewmaster Methusula's Avatar
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    Missiles hits harder that blast in every scenario with the exception of maybe a 4 stack crit versus zero crit missiles.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-18 at 01:20 PM ----------

    I think it would have worked out better if they made it so instants were spammable moderate damage abilities that built up resources for the much harder hitting cast time nukes.
    Last edited by Methusula; 2013-05-18 at 06:26 PM.
    Originally Posted by spaace
    I'm REALLY starting to get annoying with all the ignorance on these forums lately.

  15. #155
    If they want arcane to have a burn phase they should just make abilities cost 0 mana under the effects of arcane power. Could be OP though.

  16. #156
    Quote Originally Posted by Zavri View Post
    If they want arcane to have a burn phase they should just make abilities cost 0 mana under the effects of arcane power. Could be OP though.
    It would most certainly be OP, from a PvP perspective anyway.

  17. #157
    Bloodsail Admiral Nathyiel's Avatar
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    But it could be a very good idea for an arcane on short CD (1 minutes).

    edit : an Cd that only reduce Arcane Blast damage to 0 mana for 8s by example
    The answers is 42
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  18. #158
    Quote Originally Posted by I-Swizzle-I View Post
    It would most certainly be OP, from a PvP perspective anyway.
    no1 pvps with arcane though anymore. so that point is moot. im leaning towards arcane power making abs free.. that would seem overpowered but lets face it, arcane was so much stronger and more reliable back in cata, now its all mucked up since we cant camp anymore.

  19. #159
    Quote Originally Posted by Zavri View Post
    If they want arcane to have a burn phase they should just make abilities cost 0 mana under the effects of arcane power. Could be OP though.
    would def be OP with close to 100% crit with DF active

  20. #160
    Quote Originally Posted by announced View Post
    no1 pvps with arcane though anymore. so that point is moot. im leaning towards arcane power making abs free.. that would seem overpowered but lets face it, arcane was so much stronger and more reliable back in cata, now its all mucked up since we cant camp anymore.
    No one did PvP as BM either until they made it OP...you mooted your own logic.

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