Swizzle's Crazy Mage Discussiorama!!

[Methusula]

Frost Orb has an effect on Frost's rotation besides "does some damage when cast"
Flame Orb didn't, and in fact before it was fixed to not proc ignite actually actively lowered the damage your ignite did

That could very easily be changed.

Make Flame Orb proc Heating Up. If Heating Up buff is present, promote it to Hot Streak. Flame Orb cannot give procs against frozen targets.

[Pyromelter]

Frost Orb has an effect on Frost's rotation besides "does some damage when cast"
Flame Orb didn't, and in fact before it was fixed to not proc ignite actually actively lowered the damage your ignite did

I'm trying to remember if frostfire orb did that in Cataclysm. I don't recall if it did or didn't. If it didn't, well then we have a good example of taking an ability and improving it (or at least changing it to interact with the rotation).

[Imnick]

It did do that in Cataclysm

[Methusula]

They could also go in a completely different direction and make Flame Orb a nice cleave Cd.

Launch a Flame Orb that moves straight ahead. While Flame Orb is traveling, the Mage can cast Fireball, Frostfire Bolt, Scorch, and Pyroblast at the orb. Every spell that hits the orb hits all additional targets within 10 yards. They can balance it however they see fit.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Giving Flame Orb back to Fire seems pretty nice. Now it'd be nice if there was an Arcane version of it >_>

[Imnick]

On one hand yeah, I did like Flame Orb. It looked nice, and while it was about as basic a "just push this every time you can, look at the numbers!" spell as there is I don't think that's a problem in a spec like Fire that otherwise only has about two buttons to push.
On the other... Do we really want to steer back towards "a different coloured version of every spell for every spec" ? I thought living bomb's treatment in that regard was generally poorly received, I don't know why we'd want to do it again but for a much buggier mechanic.

Frost Orb was kept over Flame Orb because they were introduced at the same time, but only one was rotationally interesting. Let's therefore keep that spell, and not make mechanically similar versions with different effects for other specs.

Fire needs more spells to cast certainly, but I don't think we should return Flame Orb, or at least not in its Cataclysm state.
Make it a stationary orb that you place on the ground which pulses for AOE fire damage every time you cast a single target spell (or explodes for a fraction of the damage you did during its duration). Make it slowly descend on your target or a target area, dealing damage and knockback when it reaches the ground. Don't just make it a spell that runs forwards shooting a straight line and getting stuck on invisible cracks in the floor.

[Jarion]

I understand that you were being vague and probably using a little hyperbole on purpose, but I feel like this as a notion that we need to squash.
Fireball
Pyroblast
Fireblast
Scorch (when moving)
Living bomb
Combustion
Evocate/RoP
Presence of Mind
Alter Time

2 =/= 9

Even if you use a PoM/AT/combustion macro that's still seven buttons. Possibly 8 if the fire mage uses Temporal shield or ice barrier. Then there's counter spell, invis, the situation stuff plus whatever AOE abilities they're trying to use (If they even bother).

So I'm not so sure that the argument, "Fire needs more buttons," is a given.

[Imnick]

You have correctly identified my hyperbole, of course Fire does not literally press three buttons.

But your basic rotation boils down to "keep casting Fireball, cast Fireball in between every spell, you don't even want to chain Pyroblasts without casting a Fireball unless you are about to use Combustion" and that really quickly becomes monotonous. (Replace Fireball with Scorch when moving. You know when to use Fire Blast I don't need to tell you). Your other damage dealing abilities are on a 1.5 minute cooldown at shortest and are used solely to set up Combustion.

It's... kind of repetitive? To say the least.
It's not quite so bad that it needs to be rebuilt from the ground up but adding in a button that you weave in occasionally and that doesn't need to be lined up with Combustion would be nice.

I mean my suggestions there were chiefly for AOE spells anyway not rotational ones. Mage AOE in general is just complete trash from a gameplay and fun perspective across all three specs when you look at some other classes, apart from Inferno Blast dot spreading, but that's a separate issue.

[Deleted]

On the Frozen Orb versus Fire Orb debate.
It's interesting to see that Frozen orb is more inspired by the Diablo II spell then the cataclysm spell.

FO is an AOE spell. I think it was here to give some burst to AOE as Frost. And it work good.

Why Arcane and Fire want the spell back ? Simply because it was new and fun mechanism.
So my question: instead of having another shared ability, what about a new fun spec base ability. In fact, re-implementing the old Flame orb from cataclysm after a patch of leave would be strange. In fact think New !!

Another possibility, change some AOE spell as Talent.
They can make Flame Strike(or Blast Wave) versus Frozen Orb versus Mana Bomb (Frost bomb renamed Mana for thematic purpose).

There's a lot of possibility but please stop the discussion about Arcane versus Fire versus Frost, I want this back and why X spec keep this and us not ?
They all old and cold. Just leave them 6 feet under.

[Deleted]

Imnick welcome to WoW, you basically just described most rotations in game..

and on the fire orb discussion. PLEASE NO. that spell was so bugged and useless.

[Imnick]

Most rotations reward you when they get procs, they don't say "nah you still have to cast your filler you can't just keep doing this, even when it's procced thrice in a row".
I mean I don't think that element was intentional but it's kind of lame.

[Deleted]

Most rotations reward you when they get procs, they don't say "nah you still have to cast your filler you can't just keep doing this, even when it's procced thrice in a row".
I mean I don't think that element was intentional but it's kind of lame.

Many things change in rotation when we get procs, often we wait for them to start doing our shit as well.. I don't agree with your argument.

[Saegno]

Imnick welcome to WoW, you basically just described most rotations in game..

and on the fire orb discussion. PLEASE NO. that spell was so bugged and useless.

Yes it was buggy at times and one more then one occasion it was useless, but it was a fun spell and I enjoyed it.

On another note, Arcane missiles being channel-able while moving but at a 20% speed reduction. All other Arcane spells require you to stand still.

[Deleted]

I feel this is the proper place to ask this: so how much of a change do you guys think Mages will recieve for the upcoming expansion? I'm looking to get back on my Mage, because I love the class, Warlock isn't really my cup of tea, but hell they have SOOO much things going for them, it's not even funny. I want my favorite class to receive some very much needed visual and mechanic changes as well. How can this be achieved? Official forums, doubtful. Twitter? Consolidated list of the best ideas from this thread, spread everywhere prior the next expansion release? How can I as an average player contribute to the goal of improving our class?

[Deleted]

How much? I see 2 possibility:
1- only one change but very big
2- a lot of very small change

mouhahahahahaha

- - - Updated - - -

How can we know what will be done in 6.0?
We're still in the Hotfixe phase of the last patch ...

[Deleted]

General question: Can you Ice Block 'Set to Blow' on spoils? If so, do you do it at the start and lose the debuff entirely? Or do you just wait until it's going to expire and Ice Block the explosion outside of the raid?

I'm sure I saw a Hunter Deterrence the damage from it, but I'm not 100% sure.

[Spellweaver]

General question: Can you Ice Block 'Set to Blow' on spoils? If so, do you do it at the start and lose the debuff entirely? Or do you just wait until it's going to expire and Ice Block the explosion outside of the raid?

I'm sure I saw a Hunter Deterrence the damage from it, but I'm not 100% sure.

You'll have to wait until it's about to expire and iceblock outside the raid, as iceblocking doesn't remove the debuff.

[Deleted]

You'll have to wait until it's about to expire and iceblock outside the raid, as iceblocking doesn't remove the debuff.

Figured, but thanks.

[Imnick]

Might as well use G-Invis for that as it has a shorter cooldown and doesn't make you stop casting

[Alexand3r]

I made a new talent grid with Longwriter's tool and thought of posting it here just to get the thread rolling again.
http://mop-talent-grid-maker.appspot...&gridId=740001

Some ideas may be silly but well, this is a "Crazy Mage Discussiorama".

I'll post here some of the abilities that I personally would love to see in the game.

Place Rune:
1% of base mana. 40 yd range.

Instant. 30 second cooldown.

You place a Frost, Fire or Arcane Rune on the target location within 40 yards which deals damage and causes different effects depending on its type.

The spell is similar to the hunter trap system but the effects could be different and more mage-like.

another one that would look cool is Chromatic Bolt.

Chromatic Bolt:

10% of base mana. 40 yd range.

2 sec. cast. 20 second cooldown.

Deals Arcane/Fire/Frost damage to the target and to all enemies in its path.

Notes:

Some will complain about the third tier, the one with Slow, Dragon's Breath and Deep Freeze.
I personally would love to see the amount of CC effects reduced and I'm talking about every class, plus I think that this tier is actually interesting.
Then I'm not sure about talents such as Heart of Ice because of the fact that it increases the range of your spells (not sure if Blizzard is willing to add talents such as this one, even if it's 20%).
About the last tier. While Chromatic Bolt could appear in game, I think that the other two talents are more difficult to add to the game.
Arcane Trickster is a bit too much and may fit more in a Path of the Titans system or something similar.
Master of the Elements could work but I'm not sure of the percentages and if it would actually turn out to be a fun talent.

So here it is. I had fun doing it and I know that some things may be silly and/or overpowered.

I do not like our current talent grid.
The bomb tier should go but I know that some people like the spells so there must be a way to make everyone happy.
The level 90 tier is good by a dps point of view but boring, in my opinion, and should go.
I do not like the control tier very much although I do like Ring of Frost. I wish it wasn't just filled with Frost spells.
Flameglow should be replaced with a talent that improves our current Armours (There should be more talents that alter our existing spells).
Cold Snap I think will eventually be removed for if I remember correctly, Ghostcrawler or someone else said that they do not like talents that reset cooldowns.
The whole mage talent grid isn't that exciting but that, of course, is my opinion.

And...
Arcane mages need something else as far as PvP is concerned. A shield that consumes arcane charges or Mana Shield but a version that is better than the old one.
I miss the old Blast Wave (the one that was similar to Frost Nova and knocked back people).
I said this before but I'll say it again. I would love to see Frostfire Bolt become more useful for Arcane.