Last edited by Pann; 2013-04-04 at 11:13 PM.
Tired of being able to stand there, face roll your keyboard, and get a small chance at 500+ ilvl equipment? Well then get a real guild that can clear normals, and preferably heroics. Put some effort into raiding and you will get gear much faster AND it will be much higher ilvl.
LFR is only there for people that can't raid normally due to skill level and/or time. There's plenty of guilds out there that raid at different times and different amounts, I really don't see time as an excuse as long as you are willing to server transfer.
It usually comes down to skill level or the person just being too lazy to find a decent guild. If it's skill level, then research and practice. Stop expecting free stuff and play better. If it's just sheer laziness then nothing can be done and I have no pity for these people that want free stuff handed to them.
Last edited by tyrindor; 2013-04-04 at 11:14 PM.
But instead your response is "it's complicated".
This whole thread is about a perceived poor drop rate in LFR. If you aren't even willing to offer up what the drop rate should be increased to, what's the point?
Last edited by SamR; 2013-04-04 at 11:24 PM.
Also, the ilvl difference between normal and LFR gear accounts for the difficulty difference. The chance of getting gear shouldn't be something that varies between the two, or at least, isn't something that needs to vary between the two.
I also don't want "free loot". I don't think ANYONE really wants "free loot" here. Hell, I think things are fine the way they are!
But I will say, there has to be a reason why LFR is immensely more popular than normal raiding, and why raiding has never really been all that popular in the history of the game. You can't entirely chalk it up to skill or "laziness" or whatever.
10+/25+ people opening a few hours on their schedules, get prepared, get flasks/food, reforges, gems, enchants and w/e else they need to raid get drops (if they can kill the boss), which they can use on harder challenges, while someone who doesn't (or can't) bother with all that gets to see content and has a chance to get some gear, which is useful on getting the necessary ilvl for the next LFR. From my point of view, it has to have some drawbacks so it doesn't obliterate the casual/normal mode raiding guilds. I don't think ilvl is good enough for that, I mean; I do LFR on my alts, but I don't cap VP even if VP gear (which is even more "free loot" than LFR actually, I don't understand why people act like it doesn't exist) is same as normal mode loot.
For LFR, all you have to do is queue. For raiding, even with a casual guild, you still have to spend time (at a pre-determined time even), you still have to find a guild with members on your wavelength, you still have to be playing somewhat well and you still have to be having fun. Not many people are interested in all that and as someone who's done heroic raiding and casual raiding, I can perfectly understand that. Even one person in your guild might put you off raiding and you might not want to deal with finding another guild, which isn't an easy thing; not in hardcore brackets, nor in casual ones.
I have some friends who have absolutely no interest in raiding (even LFR). WoW has countless other things they find fun...
Last edited by laplacedemon; 2013-04-05 at 07:20 AM.
OP is just mad that he didn't swap out every piece of 489 Valor gear in the first three weeks of LFR raiding.
One thing I hate (and its saddening to see a Moderator doing) is people who keep jumping from one extreme to another, strawmanning the argument for god knows what reason.
Player A: The drop rates are too low.
Hardcore raiders: WAHH YOU BABY, YOU WANT GUARANTEED EPICS??? BACK IN MY DAY etc etc etc.
When did anyone say, "yo I want epics every Boss."
When people like you immediately strawman the OP (or anyone else who disagrees with you)'s point, you just come off looking like snobs who think they're somehow entitled to make comments while everyone else isn't. Kinda like how in the PVPtrollforums apparently anyone under 2200 is a scrub and has no worthy thing to say. Why do you guys perpetuate such behaviour and wonder why the community has gone to shit?
Looked through 11 pages of this thread and I don't see any "entitled casual" asking for full 502 gear in one run. His point is that it's too low. Not that he wants epics immediately. You can disagree, you can agree, but don't misrepresent his statement.
And again - these guys are AT WORST, asking for gear twenty to forty levels below yours. That's what, 50K DPS? 100K DPS lower? But... that's somehow intolerable, apparently.
The community--such as it is--had their chance to do the roll thing with DS and it was pretty much a catastrophe. The new system is much better and there's a decent argument to be made that due to LFR being easier with generally fewer wipes all around, things balance out. I'm not sure I even want LFR to gear you up faster than normal raiding does anyway but that's an arguable proposition about which reasonable people can have different points of view. Unfortunately, most of the complaining about LFR drop rates seems to come down to something like "I want my LFR gear now and it's ridiculous that it takes weeks to get it". That's a point of view for which I have no sympathy whatsoever. It's supposed to take time and RNG is inherent in all raiding loot systems to one degree or another.
I don't really see what the hurry is to get gear out of LFR in any case. If you were to use it for normal raiding, you should be just doing normal raiding instead. If you're not planning on doing normal raiding there's no reason to rush. In any case, it's all pretty subjective and simply complaining about it isn't really very useful.
Last edited by MoanaLisa; 2013-04-05 at 08:06 AM.
A bit of civility and respect for others opinions goes a long way toward getting any respect in return. Overly hostile, profane and insulting posts are a sign that people don't really have anything to say. Profanity is best served out in very small doses.
"Forum drama exists because people enjoy creating it." - ML/2013
I mean I agree that you "should" play this game for other ideals, but this is a BIG reason for people to do LFR. That and it is a good reason to do LFR. I would guess that if people who normally only play LFR for loot, would quit, the queue times would be horrendous = you cannot raid LFR anymore.
The amount of crying over loot since LFR came out is absolutely hilarious.
Real raiders know you spend weeks, maybe even months, before you get the drop you want. And that isn't fighting loot pinata bosses. You spend time learning fights, and then maybe you get lucky with a drop.
Real raiders also know the game isn't about loot. It's about having fun. The gear is just a means to an end.
I was fine w/ LFD but I honestly think LFR was a huge mistake.
Well this thread isn't about "real raiding" it is about LFR so I don't get why you find it funny. I am pretty sure lfr was put in place for people to experience the content that normally wouldn't have the chance, and that is why I am a little surprised to see any real gripe when it comes to drops. If things drop they drop if not, at least you still got to see some content you otherwise might not have got to.
Try playing a holy paladin for a change. You won't get any loot. Nowhere. Ever.
Well, in DF/LFR, that is.
In "real raids" as you put it gear does not come slowly. I have been in many runs in the past where certain items always seem to drop often because of the disparity of individual item drop rates.
My DK upon joining a 10 man raid got showered with epics to save them from shardage. The point is raids get loot every time.
Real raiders also know the game is all about gear, they rarely take anyone undergeared as they know that between dps timers and healing throughput it makes the difference between a kill and a wipe.
Personally my schedule doesn't allow me to raid as I do martial arts clases most evenings so LFR and PvP are my way of enjoying the game because I can do it around them without having to clear an entire evening.
The drop rates suck and while personal loot is a good idea it was so much faster to gear up in DS where loot always dropped.