Raid Finder and its ridiculous drop rate

[Deleted]

Why do you want gear faster and at a more predictable rate? so that you can come to the forums faster moaning that you already have all upgrades from casual content and then you DEMAND a new LFR and stuff, and QQ blizzard is lazy and slow?


I don't realy get this whole mentality that loot HAS to drop for you to have fun. I don't get this whole mentality to Farm content just for purple gear and then when you are full of it have nothing much to do.


Blizzard already has bonus rolls. Next its going to "cheat" RNG so that people aren't unlucky muchm, whats next?

Would you like to be in the game a weekly quest that if you run a LFR the quest reward is an epic of your choice from the entire loot table so that game turns into just colecting items ? because i have the feeling that anything below that won't realy suffice for most people on this forums...

[MasterHamster]

You might be fine with only players that enjoy MMOs for being MMOs, whatever that means, but I doubt Blizzard's accountants would be.

If someone only did three dungeons, then LFR before logging out for the week how does that affect you? How is any different from a hardcore potential world first raider that spends a month trying to beat the current tier before logging off until the next one?

Quite simple! MMOs is about progressing your character, not being spoonfed non-raid BiS items as fast as a cap will allow.
If 5.2 were anything like 4.3 I'd probably already be iat i510 at this point, and bored, and either quit or at best play on another 90. Instead of earning rep with the new factions, I'd just be buying them from a random vendor in Org.

Even with 5 characters I barely had anything to do in 4.3. Why? Because I was getting spoonfed items. A design that Blizzard luckily moved away from. So again, if WoW keeps bleeding subs from people that can't handle that a new major patch won't suddenly boost your ilvl by 30 in order to raid the newest tier, I'm more than fine with that.

5mans are now a stepping stone into LFR, but still award a decent amount of Valor, a lot of justice for heirlooms or honor. Valor spent on faction unlocked items that by no means take that long, but is way more engaging than putting on some fugly tabard for a faction you barely know where their HQ is.

[Pann]

Why do you want gear faster and at a more predictable rate? so that you can come to the forums faster moaning that you already have all upgrades from casual content and then you DEMAND a new LFR and stuff, and QQ blizzard is lazy and slow?


I don't realy get this whole mentality that loot HAS to drop for you to have fun. I don't get this whole mentality to Farm content just for purple gear and then when you are full of it have nothing much to do.

The whole MMO genre revolves around getting people to repeat a minimal amount of content, WOW's incentive to do this is gear without it there is no reason to repeatedly complete the available content.

Quite simple! MMOs is about progressing your character, not being spoonfed non-raid BiS items as fast as a cap will allow.
If 5.2 were anything like 4.3 I'd probably already be iat i510 at this point, and bored, and either quit or at best play on another 90. Instead of earning rep with the new factions, I'd just be buying them from a random vendor in Org.

Even with 5 characters I barely had anything to do in 4.3. Why? Because I was getting spoonfed items. A design that Blizzard luckily moved away from. So again, if WoW keeps bleeding subs from people that can't handle that a new major patch won't suddenly boost your ilvl by 30 in order to raid the newest tier, I'm more than fine with that.

How are LFR players spoon feed? Why is a problem if they can gear up as fast as the cap, slowly allows?

I do believe that the drop rates in LFR are the same now as they were in 4.3 so I am not sure how would be able to gain a level of gear that is higher than that drops from the LFR with the old system. Before you mention the three catch up heroics in 4.3 they dropped gear several item levels lower than those from LFR.

If WOW keeps bleeding subs how do you think Blizzard will be able to justify the current effort and expense that is spent on producing raids? Less than half of the 19k guilds that have killed the first boss in ToT have killed the third boss do you think that such a small amount of players could keep Blizzard afloat?

[arden714]

I still think the mental issue here stems from seeing no gear drop. I think people complained less back in DS when they simply didn't win the roll on an item they wanted. At least the boss dropped gear they could use.

[MasterHamster]

The whole MMO genre revolves around getting people to repeat a minimal amount of content, WOW's incentive to do this is gear without it there is no reason to repeatedly complete the available content.

And... LFR don't earn you items? Valor don't earn you items at a predictable rate?
The incrementing chance on bonus rolls won't help?

Sure, sometimes I'm very unlucky in LFR. Good thing that's partially being taken care of.

I still think the mental issue here stems from seeing no gear drop. I think people complained less back in DS when they simply didn't win the roll on an item they wanted. At least the boss dropped gear they could use.

That is EXACTLY it. When someone goes for "weeks" without a drop they get frustrated. But I'd take that over the old system when I regularly lost items to people who then DEd it in my face. Besides, increment on bonus rolls.
Predictable loot (by currency?) is not a good route.

"Oh I hope I get X this time!" becomes "hurry u retards i need to kill 7 more bosses for my 2h"

[SamR]

What do YOU want?

Pann has already admitted that even if they doubled the loot drop rate of ToT LFR to what the old 5.0 LFRs are dropping currently and allowed coin use on every single boss, he would consider the drop rate too low still.

[Draknalor186]

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Flummer/simple u mad bro? last week i got loot from 4 out of 6 bosses =P
seems to me that i get very much stuff on bonus rolls tho and only some from actual boss kill

[ro9ue]

I'm one of the select few who is loved by RNG. Glaive sets on 2 classes, lots of rare mounts, get LFR loot like its a 100% drop.

Still though, I can sympathize with people who get bad luck streaks, at least they are putting in the bonus chance accumulation with failed coin rolls.

[Pann]

I don't need to prove anything and I certainly didn't "NEED" that drop other than to get the achievement for an epic item in every slot. I am doing fine in LFR with or without that weapon. MoP is certainly not like oldschool raids where ANY epic would increase the raids dps or tank survivability or healing output to push it to the next lv.

What do YOU want? A 100% guranteed dropchance of the epic that you think you "need"? I still fail to see proof that any drop chance is "too low". So I waited 12 weeks for that weapon and still downed Sha every week. It is all highly subjective what you need and what dropchance is too low. That weapon certainly wasn't needed to clear all T 14 raids in the last 3 months....

If you do not need to prove anything what was the point of your post? You got a drop! Brilliant! well done! Although if you were doing fine without it I am not sure why you thought it was worth announcing on MMO-C.

You might be fine with waiting 12 weeks, three months, of running the same content over and over again but others are not. It is the people that are not that Blizzard have to worry about. I have offered my thoughts on what I think is wrong with the current model and given some ideas on how I think it can be improved, if you want to join in the debate feel free to look back through this thread, however I think that you are more concerned with defending Blizzard than having an actual debate.

That is EXACTLY it. When someone goes for "weeks" without a drop they get frustrated. But I'd take that over the old system when I regularly lost items to people who then DEd it in my face. Besides, increment on bonus rolls.
Predictable loot (by currency?) is not a good route.

"Oh I hope I get X this time!" becomes "hurry u retards i need to kill 7 more bosses for my 2h"

I'm sorry didn't you just say that using the old system you would already be wearing 510+ gear?

Pann has already admitted that even if they doubled the loot drop rate of ToT LFR to what the old 5.0 LFRs are dropping currently and allowed coin use on every single boss, he would consider the drop rate too low still.

I did? Care to point out where? Or are you, again, trying to twist what people are saying to fit your argument?

[Glorious Leader]

Pann has already admitted that even if they doubled the loot drop rate of ToT LFR to what the old 5.0 LFRs are dropping currently and allowed coin use on every single boss, he would consider the drop rate too low still.

And he would be correct. That is still to low when raids only give you one lockout a week. Catch up + rng is a bad combination.

The developers now consider wow "fine dining". Well "fine dining" is extremely niche and exclusive. I hope they are prepared to go back to being niche and exclusive so long as they pursue the goal of making the game like "fine dining"

[SamR]

I did? Care to point out where? Or are you, again, trying to twist what people are saying to fit your argument?

My earlier post:

And 5.0 LFR drops lots of loot, especially when you're elder coining on every single boss.

You quoted that line and replied:

In my experience it does not.

Sure sounds to be like even the doubled drop rate of 5.0 LFR plus bonus roll on every single boss isn't good enough for you.

[KCguy]

Hey fellows!
So, Im sick of RF.
502 items are good if u see my gear (im 496 atm) and Im TRYING to farm some 502 LFR gear...
BUT, since it avaible, i've been killing all bosses and I got 2 items so far...
Actually it was 3, but one was repeated and I desenchanted it...
So, when will it work??
If I dont farm tokens of bonus roll I will drop 2 items every month??
Thanks blizz, to piss me off every week!

Throne of Thunder is going to be out for months and months and months until the next raid which is 5.4. There is a lot of time left. You can't expect to get everything in a month. It takes time. Relax geez. It's just a game. lol

[Eats Compost]

The problem with LFR is the unpredictability of the loot. In normal raids, it's more controlled. A set amount of items will drop, and the raid decides precisely who gets which one. The only chance involved regards getting certain items from the item pool to drop, but because you've got guaranteed drops (and several of them, at that) for every kill, you're much more likely to come across at least one instance of any given item, and the raid can distribute that where needed.

LFR has a double RNG whammy; first you've got to get any item to actually drop, then you've got to get the item you want . If I want a weapon off a boss with 4 items for my spec and the chance to get an item at all is ~20%, then my chance of actually getting that weapon is ~5% per kill. Pardon my simplistic statistics there, but it should be close enough to make the point.

Loot shouldn't be guaranteed or anything, but the problem right now is that it is incredibly frustrating to track down items that you actually want in LFR. I wanted to get the one-hand strength weapon off Sha of Fear, but ended up getting the two-hander three times. Combine this with how long it takes to plow through the first three bosses in Terrace, and I just outright gave up on trying to get the thing. LFR at least needs some duplicate prevention, because right now, its very hard to justify going into any LFR dungeon that I want something specific from. The odds are just too stacked.

I don't want to spend this much time just to spin a roulette. I can come back to normal raids for a comparison again. See, if loot goes to anyone in my raid group, it is beneficial to us as a whole; more gear for them means more progression for me, and as an added bonus, they're probably someone I'm friendly with so it's nice to know that they got something. I move forward even with loot that comes to me. In LFR, it's a more lonely story; the loot that anyone but me gets is entirely irrelevant. If I come out of a normal raid empty-handed but my fellows got upgrades, it's a win, even if it's not as great of a win as it would be if I won loot. If I come out of LFR empty-handed? A waste of bloody time; even the valor reward is pitiful for the time spent in there.

I've rambled on and edited enough times. Long story short, the current LFR loot system has feelbad problems. Blizzard looking into bad luck streak prevention is nice, but not very. I'll just end up "ending" my bad luck streak on an item I didn't want anyway.

[Pann]

My earlier post:



You quoted that line and replied:



Sure sounds to be like even the doubled drop rate of 5.0 LFR plus bonus roll on every single boss isn't good enough for you.

Right, ok?!? So you are, again, trying to twist what people say to fit your argument. Where did I say that "even if they doubled the loot drop rate of ToT LFR to what the old 5.0 LFRs are dropping currently and allowed coin use on every single boss, he would consider the drop rate too low still?" So because in my experience, which others in this thread have backed up, 5.0 does not drop "lots of loot" I have somehow stated that if 5.2 raids were doubled with the use of additional rolls on each boss it would still be too low? I even went as far to say that issue is far more complicated than just the LFR drop rates in the very same post.

[tyrindor]

Tired of being able to stand there, face roll your keyboard, and get a small chance at 500+ ilvl equipment? Well then get a real guild that can clear normals, and preferably heroics. Put some effort into raiding and you will get gear much faster AND it will be much higher ilvl.

LFR is only there for people that can't raid normally due to skill level and/or time. There's plenty of guilds out there that raid at different times and different amounts, I really don't see time as an excuse as long as you are willing to server transfer.

It usually comes down to skill level or the person just being too lazy to find a decent guild. If it's skill level, then research and practice. Stop expecting free stuff and play better. If it's just sheer laziness then nothing can be done and I have no pity for these people that want free stuff handed to them.

[SamR]

Right, ok?!? So you are, again, trying to twist what people say to fit your argument. Where did I say that "even if they doubled the loot drop rate of ToT LFR to what the old 5.0 LFRs are dropping currently and allowed coin use on every single boss, he would consider the drop rate too low still?" So because in my experience, which others in this thread have backed up, 5.0 does not drop "lots of loot" I have somehow stated that if 5.2 raids were doubled with the use of additional rolls on each boss it would still be too low? I even went as far to say that issue far more complicated than just the LFR drop rates in the very same post.

All you have to say is "you're wrong, I don't think the 5.0 LFR drop rate is too low. I think it's just right(or too high)."

But instead your response is "it's complicated".

This whole thread is about a perceived poor drop rate in LFR. If you aren't even willing to offer up what the drop rate should be increased to, what's the point?

[Eats Compost]

Tired of being able to stand there, face roll your keyboard, and get a small chance at 500+ ilvl equipment? Well then get a real guild that can clear normals, and preferably heroics. Put some effort into raiding and you will get gear much faster AND it will be much higher ilvl.

LFR is only there for people that can't raid normally due to skill level and/or time. There's plenty of guilds out there that raid at different times and different amounts, I really don't see time as an excuse as long as you are willing to server transfer.

It usually comes down to skill level or the person just being too lazy to find a decent guild. If it's skill level, then research and practice. Stop expecting free stuff and play better. If it's just sheer laziness then nothing can be done and I have no pity for these people that want free stuff handed to them.

I think you're missing the big one; the ability (or desire) to raid on-schedule. Having to play a certain game at a certain time on a certain day can be a turnoff for some people, y'know. In some cases, it's outright impossible. I had to stop raiding with my guild because something more important came up which occupied me from 6-9pm every Wednesday. Not much I can do about that.

Also, the ilvl difference between normal and LFR gear accounts for the difficulty difference. The chance of getting gear shouldn't be something that varies between the two, or at least, isn't something that needs to vary between the two.

[Pann]

All you have to say is "you're wrong, I don't think the 5.0 LFR drop rate is too low. I think it's just right(or too high)."

But instead your response is "it's complicated".

This whole thread is about a perceived poor drop rate in LFR. If you aren't even willing to offer up what the drop rate should be increased to, what's the point?

I have repeatedly said that the rate at which people acquire gear is too slow. Perhaps if you had read my post where I said that issue was more complicated than just LFR drop rates instead of quoting one part of it out of context to fit your argument you would not be so confused.

[SamR]

I have repeatedly said that the rate at which people acquire gear is too slow. Perhaps if you had read my post where I said that issue was more complicated than just LFR drop rates instead of quoting one part of it out of context to fit your argument you would not be so confused.

So what rate would be fast enough for you?

"Too slow" is a relative term. It's a term used to compare the current gear acquisition rate to a different rate that you have in mind. Just tell us what that rate is.

[Pann]

So what rate would be fast enough for you?

I have already said what I think is an acceptable rate to gain gear. Honestly I don't think there is much point continuing down this line of discussion as you have proved that you will twist anything that is written in an attempt to fit your argument.