1. #1

    Loshan, Terror Incarnate (LFR) 2/2 vs. Nadagast's Exsanguinator (LFR) 0/2

    Topic says it all.

    I have my Loshan, Terror Incarnate (LFR) upgraded twice with a Crystallized Horror, a Brilliant Primordial Ruby, and a Jade Spirit enchant. SimCraft is showing the Nadagast's Exsanguinator as a DPS decrease, but I'm not sure if it's because it isn't enchanted and socket up.

    Thoughts?

  2. #2
    Bloodsail Admiral Chrispotter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WildcatTM View Post
    Topic says it all.

    I have my Loshan, Terror Incarnate (LFR) upgraded twice with a Crystallized Horror, a Brilliant Primordial Ruby, and a Jade Spirit enchant. SimCraft is showing the Nadagast's Exsanguinator as a DPS decrease, but I'm not sure if it's because it isn't enchanted and socket up.

    Thoughts?
    I literally cant find any item called "Nadagast's Exsanguinator" am I being super stupid? where is this weapon from?

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Chrispotter View Post
    I literally cant find any item called "Nadagast's Exsanguinator" am I being super stupid? where is this weapon from?
    http://www.wowhead.com/item=95866

  4. #4
    I imagine it would be a dps increase, but possibly a small one.

    You gain 722 spell power and a gem socket, but lose 500 int.

    I've no way of telling what your stat weights are, but I'd guess at the 1000 sp + secondary + socket bonus int being a gain, but it's probably minor at best - if you're raiding normal modes then I'd honestly just wait for a weapon from there unless you've got a lot of competition, they drop as early as Horridon.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Nagassh View Post
    I imagine it would be a dps increase, but possibly a small one.

    You gain 722 spell power and a gem socket, but lose 500 int.

    I've no way of telling what your stat weights are, but I'd guess at the 1000 sp + secondary + socket bonus int being a gain, but it's probably minor at best - if you're raiding normal modes then I'd honestly just wait for a weapon from there unless you've got a lot of competition, they drop as early as Horridon.
    Considering that the loshan is 491 since its upgraded and has an additional 500 int on it there is a good likelihood that it is not better.

    A normal mode weapon may pull ahead of the 491 though. I know many people in my raid have 517's w/ the 500 int gem and 522s are worse.

  6. #6
    Moderator Nicola's Avatar
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    If it's going to be a dps increase, it's going to be a really small one. Also, iirc, it's possible to change your gear profile in simcraft, adding all the needed gems and enchants to weapon.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Niberion View Post
    If it's going to be a dps increase, it's going to be a really small one. Also, iirc, it's possible to change your gear profile in simcraft, adding all the needed gems and enchants to weapon.
    I'm still getting use to all the options in SimCraft, but I think that's what I'll end up doing.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Harekrsna View Post
    Considering that the loshan is 491 since its upgraded and has an additional 500 int on it there is a good likelihood that it is not better.

    A normal mode weapon may pull ahead of the 491 though. I know many people in my raid have 517's w/ the 500 int gem and 522s are worse.
    At my gear levels int and spellpower nearly has the same value, so the 700+ spellpower + a socket would win over the 500 intellect (not even mentioning secondarys). But I guess it depends on gear levels.

    An unfortunately accurate approach in WOW is higher item level = better item ... This is no exception.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Harekrsna View Post
    Considering that the loshan is 491 since its upgraded and has an additional 500 int on it there is a good likelihood that it is not better.

    A normal mode weapon may pull ahead of the 491 though. I know many people in my raid have 517's w/ the 500 int gem and 522s are worse.
    The stat comparisons I mentioned in my post are exactly what he gets, upgrades and everything taken into account.

    722 spell power and 300 secondary v 440 int. Considering at ilevels achievable last tier, secondaries were becoming stronger than half int and spell power is significantly stronger than all secondary stats, I have serious doubts that 440 int is worth more than what he gains.

    I do expect it to be such a small gain that it's not worth replacing if he can get a normal mode horridon weapon, but it not being a gain is unlikely and the chances of it being a gain improve as his other gear does.

  10. #10
    Last time I checked my own character 1 intellect equals around 1 spellpower (ignoring spellpower buff) so when comparing 2 weapons you only really need to look if the extra 500 intellect makes a large enough difference to make up for the lower ilevel.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by ati87 View Post
    Last time I checked my own character 1 intellect equals around 1 spellpower (ignoring spellpower buff) so when comparing 2 weapons you only really need to look if the extra 500 intellect makes a large enough difference to make up for the lower ilevel.
    You're missing that Int also provides Spell Crit, not just Spell Power. Half my Warlock's crit chance comes from Int, not Crit rating. Plus, AFAIK, Int double-drips once you have group buffs. First you get the +5% stats buff, then the +10% Spell Power buff.

    I'm not saying the 502 dagger isn't better, just that the calculation isn't that simple.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Kirroth View Post
    You're missing that Int also provides Spell Crit, not just Spell Power. Half my Warlock's crit chance comes from Int, not Crit rating. Plus, AFAIK, Int double-drips once you have group buffs. First you get the +5% stats buff, then the +10% Spell Power buff.

    I'm not saying the 502 dagger isn't better, just that the calculation isn't that simple.
    Simcraft operates under the assumption that all of those buffs are present, if it says 1 point of int is as much as 1 point of spellpower (Arbitrary numbers), it's factoring in that you'll have kings / the crit you'll gain.

    You can question the validity of simcrafts weight values, but it's already taking those things into account.

  13. #13
    For human the answer would have been Loshan because it is a sword and humans have +1% expertise with Swords.

    Nadagast is a well known and very nice pvper (now Nadagastt ) so it's quite cool to have the weapon, in the same way palatank's theorycrafter extraordinaire Theck got a ring named after him

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