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  1. #1

    Normal for feral tanks to take more damage?

    Is it normal for feral tanks to take more damage than most of the other tanks? On our Megaera kill tonight on my Brewmaster (505 ilvl) I took 19M dmg. Our Feral took 28M. I've seen a similar parse to my guilds with a similarly geared Prot War also taking around 19-20M dmg.

    Is this normal, or does our Feral tank need to adjust?

  2. #2
    High Overlord braayden's Avatar
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    I don't spose his gear is gemmed/reforged for crit is it? This'll make his incoming damage a bit more, but he gets more rage to use his mitigation.

    If not, then I'm not sure!
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  3. #3
    Meagaera is a weird fight to compare damage taken. Depends which heads was he tanking? If he was on all red heads then yes it is normal to take bit more dmg than other tank. Without logs and stuff it is hard to tell you just by some numbers if he is doing his job right or not.

  4. #4
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    It's pretty normal for some people who play Guardians to not know how to play their class.

    Give us more information...show us logs..show us his armory. Chances are hes doing something wrong on one or both fronts.

  5. #5
    Megaera doesn't look like a bear-friendly fight as far as I can imagine (I haven't done this other than LFR on my bear). This fight's hard part is magic damage, either spike (green) or sustain (red), which bear tank doesn't even have an actual magic damage cooldown, only long cd universal cooldown. The best thing I can think of is to save enough rage and heal through breath. Bear is good at avoidance and passive physical damage reduction, especially short cd spikes like sha of fear, which apparently this fight is not the case. Compare to that monk has much much more magic cooldown to use.

    I would... imagine Soul of the Forest is a good choice for this fight? For better sustain rage generation to heal through breath. But just imagine.

  6. #6
    The Lightbringer Raugnaut's Avatar
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    As stated, was he generally tanking red heads? Tanks tanking red heads take a significantly larger amount of damage then tanks tanking other heads, due to the heavy damage of the fire DoT. Only DK tanks will take very little damage from red heads, mostly due to the ability to prevent DoT application.
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  7. #7
    Unfortunately some of our logs are missing on the site. We just have last week's Megaera logs here. And it's hard for me to tell at times, because on like Council, he ranged tanks the priest and taunts Malakk off me when my frigid assault stacks get too high. So I think Priest/Malakk is more incoming dmg than Sul/Malakk. And on Horridon I tanked all of Phase5 on Horridon, so my damage will naturally come out higher there. I'm on bats on Tortos, so I take a lot of spike dmg then nothing.

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  8. #8
    The Lightbringer Gobra's Avatar
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    Ofcourse, Just like Balance healers won't do as good as actual healers, get yourself a Guardian druid and you'll notice a difference:P
    But wrong speccs aside i would put it down to Guardian not having a magical mitigation ability.
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  9. #9
    Dreadlord Noah37's Avatar
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    I don't know if they changed things, but it used to be very normal for druids to take more damage. Granted this was Pre-MoP (I think it was WotLK really) when Druids had double the HP of other tanks. I don't really know anything about it now.

  10. #10
    This would make sense because guardians don't really have much in the way of short CD damage reduction utilities. We can increase our dodge or heal the damage. We can't reduce it as easily as other tanks can. Additionally as was stated, Megaera is primarly a magical damage fight so it seems the reason is fairly straightforward.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Raugnaut View Post
    As stated, was he generally tanking red heads? Tanks tanking red heads take a significantly larger amount of damage then tanks tanking other heads, due to the heavy damage of the fire DoT. Only DK tanks will take very little damage from red heads, mostly due to the ability to prevent DoT application.
    Sorry meant to say that I believe I was tanking equal or most of the red heads. I was on the left side. So I had Blue/Red and sometimes Green. (We did GRGRBRG and I started on Blue)

  12. #12
    After checking my logs of a recent Maegera kill with me (Guardian) and a prot warrior tank, I actually took less damage by roughly 3M damage overall while tanking the red head the majority of the time (I took 6.1M from Ignite Flesh vs 1.6M).

    What do I attribute this to? Dodge being our active mitigation, and our high levels of physical mitigation. The largest difference between our damage was in the Melee attacks damage, where I was the target of more melee attacks than my tanking counter-part, yet I took 3.6M less damage from them (our overall magic damage taken was roughly the same). Maegera is actually a very druid-friendly fight in my eyes since there's ample time for SD to come off CD between heads, and what damage reduction cooldowns we do possess can be applied in key points to limit the impact of magic damage. Also, I think 2pc Guardian tier can shine of this fight, since it will allow you to get away with using a sub-60 rage Frenzied Regen later in the life of the head yet heal up the damage of the breath instantly.

    While Guardians do have some weaknesses in certain encounters, I don't perceive Guardians as weak on Maegera.

    *edit*
    - On a slightly related note, has anyone messed around with our CW talent on this fight? I tend to stick to Renewal since I'm more apt to need an immediate, on demand heal versus a HoT, plus I tend to use FR where I'd possibly use CW (and I loathe CW being on the GCD, sometimes those just aren't available or in the proper place). However, Maegera might be a good place to use such a talent with a 30 second cooldown, since it could be applied for every head at the bare minimum.
    Last edited by exochaft; 2013-04-05 at 06:30 PM.
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  13. #13
    You can compare his guardian logs with other guardian logs, taking in consideration what is tanked. At least I did that a lot during my heroic progression as a guardian, I went in depth to the amount of SDs and frenzied regeneration, when they popped defensive cds and even offensive cds and how many times he pops his cds in a fight.

    Since i don't raid anymore, I cannot give insight on the Magera fight, but from what I read it seems like a heavy magic damage fight. So as a bear, his damage intake will be higher then absorption tanks. However, look at his healing done, does it cover a decent amount of the dmg taken.

  14. #14
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/u...pes&boss=68065

    His cooldown usage is really poor. Through all of your Magaera wipes that night, he used Barkskin ONCE, he's stacking SI and MoU together (used them rarely as well), not using really any talented cooldowns for rage gen or healing.

    He really, really, really needs to utilize his cooldowns better. His gemming is crit focused so that's good, at least.

    Tell your resto druid to use Ironbark more, too. S/he used it 3 times out of 7 attempts. Shaman needs to improve Earth Shield and Riptide usage.

  15. #15
    It's not normal for bears to take a lot of damage, in fact they have pretty absurd passive defense against both magical and physical, however on heavy magic fights their active defense is pretty much eat it all and regen afterwards.

    And of course proper use of cd's.
    Last edited by Kojo; 2013-04-05 at 06:41 PM.

  16. #16
    28m damage for 10N sounds like a lot, but you shouldn't compare it to yourself - brewmasters are fairly op for Megaera - my brm took 25 mil total on our last 25H kill.

    As said earlier, he needs to use and rotate cds for breaths. Bone shield for first breath, barkskin second, rotate shieldwall/last stand if you get a third.

  17. #17
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    Keep the conversation civil, please don't post if you can't word yourself constructively.

  18. #18
    Comparing your longest Meg attempt to my last kill: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/8...?s=5666&e=6101

    So let's make a list....

    1) Isn't using Savage Defense.
    2) No T6 talent usage. Should be taking NV for this fight especially.
    3) Didn't Tranq
    4) Didn't use Incarnation
    5) Didn't use Berserk
    6) Didn't Barkskin
    7) No Enrage
    8) 14% Thrash uptime?
    9) 24% Weakened Blows uptime <---- the fuck?

    I'm surprised you made it to Megaera at all to be honest.

    Tell your Guardian to go read http://theincbear.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=697 a few times.

  19. #19
    Unfortunately after going after the logs (just the basic stuff) it is indeed a learn to play issue. Not only the damage he takes, he is not mitigating or trying to mitigate it in any possible way but also his damage output is extremely low. I think he has not understand the basics of guardians.

    So as Arielle suggested please point him over her guide, it is well written and it will help him in many ways.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by jasonleekungfu View Post
    Megaera doesn't look like a bear-friendly fight as far as I can imagine (I haven't done this other than LFR on my bear). This fight's hard part is magic damage, either spike (green) or sustain (red), which bear tank doesn't even have an actual magic damage cooldown, only long cd universal cooldown. The best thing I can think of is to save enough rage and heal through breath. Bear is good at avoidance and passive physical damage reduction, especially short cd spikes like sha of fear, which apparently this fight is not the case. Compare to that monk has much much more magic cooldown to use.

    I would... imagine Soul of the Forest is a good choice for this fight? For better sustain rage generation to heal through breath. But just imagine.
    Have you ever looked at recount or world of logs to see what's actually hitting you ? On my kill of Megera last week on 10man normal 45% of the damage taken was melee. 15% was rot armor, 11% acid rain and 8% of my damage taken was arctic freeze. My guild does green red green red etc for kill.

    Since the fight is actually mostly physical damage, Guardians can counter this easily with savage defense. The predictable breaths are easily dealt with by popping barkskin, SI or frenzied regen.

    Soul of the forest is not a good choice for any fight as it does come close to the rage generation and dps increase of incarnation.

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