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  1. #21
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    The point being is tanking the bats requires healers to single target heal both tanks. With someone kiting you're never getting hit by the bats, this allows the healers to focus the majority of their attention on the raid. The fight is a lot easier when quakes are done properly, and quakes being done properly require the healers to heal people with crystal shells to/near maximum capacity. This is a lot easier to do when you have a single tank to worry about.

    With one person dealing with the bats the raid need only focus on killing the turtles. Bat and turtle spawns USUALLY line up at the same time as the fight goes on and removing the bats from the fight allows people to focus on the most difficult part of the encounter, killing the turtles. The bats just don't roll over dead, they still have a decent chunk of health and will take away time from killing the turtles. Turtles being stable makes healing and DPS a lot easier and as I mentioned earlier have a surplus of bats up gives some damage dealers in you raid more survival/single target damage by getting fed procs from them.

    The best thing about howling blast is you can pick them up in the air, in one tight clump more often than not. When we tried ground based AoEs they provided mixed results as it takes quite awhile for the bats to actually reach the ground (but they can still hit people when they are almost to the ground).

    Brewmaster does have more room for error in not dying but DKs still have the easiest time picking them up. We had something like 15 attempts before we killed the boss on heroic and the bats were never a problem to pick up. The stun from quake is only a couple seconds and as long as you keep a 15-20 yard distance the bats won't reach you.

    Another thing to keep in mind is Brewmaster AoE is just a snare that doesn't do damage at all. It's much more spammable than HB though. On our kill I did amazing DPS up front, contributed heavily to the first three turtles and still did good damage to turtle spawns later in the fight (because howling blast is still going to hit a lot of them). Howling blast spam with warlocks getting procs (embers/shards) does eventually kill some bats, Brewmaster kiting probably isn't going to kill bats. This can be a problem for some people with lower end machines as they will start to experience FPS drops when you go over 20 bats. On our kill we never had more than 20 bats up a time.

    Like I said there are a lot of ways to do this boss. You can single tank it with three healers, two tanks with three healers, two tanks with two healers etc. Kiting is just another option to throw into the mix. I main my DK both frost/blood with my alt being a disc priest. For us it was either 3 healing with my alt or two healing with me kiting. It was an incredibly fast kill on our part and it made everybody else have an incredibly easy job. Any encounter IMO where you can offload all the difficulty on a single person is something people should take advantage of, on the grounds that the person can perform that duty. If you kited heroic deathwhisper adds in ICC (which is much more difficult) as a frost DK, this is right your alley.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Murdos View Post
    Because I can do 150k dps single-target. He can't.

    He's also pretty damn amazing, he's got more then Thunderclap; Cleave, Revenge, Shockwave and Bloodbath all spring to mind as ways to keep the distance in check. Also, Mocking Banner much? AOE fixate? That's plenty of flash-pickup. Add in a fairly large array of stuns and a lot of mobility. Our Bear Tank can hold the boss solo, and our Destro Warlock can also do work on the bats, as been mentioned before in the thread.

    This is a perfect illustration of how your idea is fine for YOUR group, but not every group - particularly not every 10 man - can field the same strategy with their composition.
    Ok mate, have your prot warrior run into the 5th wave of bats and cleave/revenge them, tell me how it goes. Melee range attacks on those = instant death when you have that many coming after you. Also, last I checked Taunt Banner had a cooldown on it, which was shorter than the bat's spawn interval. I'm not questioning a warrior's cc or mobility, just wondering how earth he is going to get threat to hold the bats without getting eaten at the same time. Not even saying it's not doable, just saying it's SO much harder for him than you.
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  3. #23
    Sure mate, tell me how we're going to make up the 100k lost DPS by having him get into his vastly undergeared fury set instead of me on the boss.

    Well again this thread has mentioned several methods, we have a warlock for example. Shadowfury, plus shockwave has a very short CD which will allow him to Bloodbath > TC > Revenge > etc and then just kite from there, it's not perfect but neither is the option of trading one of our two top DPS for someone doing half his damage for the bulk of the fight. It's a bad deal either way.

    Ain't so simple, which was my entire point. It might work, but it's not as simple as 'Make the DK do it, stupid' for our group like it is yours.
    Vampire Zombie Werewolf

  4. #24
    Fury warrior tanking/aoe'ing bats... Next it's gonna be a SP aoe'ing them down.
    Make sure you realize they heal up for 1M+ hp each time they hit you while under 350k health and you gonna be hit at some point ! You won't gonna be at full health due to stomp and aoe shit falling from the roof.

    Did you even kill an heroic tot boss murdos ? (http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...urdos/advanced)

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Murdos View Post
    Sure mate, tell me how we're going to make up the 100k lost DPS by having him get into his vastly undergeared fury set instead of me on the boss.
    You don't have a single spare dps to bring in? Should probably put the effort into recruiting a backup rather than being silly on the forums.
    EX - 14/14 HC - Ravencrest EU
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  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Inambour View Post
    Fury warrior tanking/aoe'ing bats... Next it's gonna be a SP aoe'ing them down.
    Make sure you realize they heal up for 1M+ hp each time they hit you while under 350k health and you gonna be hit at some point ! You won't gonna be at full health due to stomp and aoe shit falling from the roof.
    are you even reading the thread?
    do you even have a heroic kill? it's 550k hp.

  7. #27
    Oh no i miss typed a number what is gonna happen ? My whole point still stands.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Inambour View Post
    Oh no i miss typed a number what is gonna happen ? My whole point still stands.
    no one, at any point in this thread, has said anything about a fury warrior tanking the adds.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by CptAwesome View Post
    You don't have a single spare dps to bring in? Should probably put the effort into recruiting a backup rather than being silly on the forums.
    Nope, we've had several people quit raiding due to IRL reasons (Surgery for one, Military for another, one had a baby, and another is moving to another country) So our bench is pretty much entirely gone. You're just restating problems we already know we have. It's hard enough to recruit bench for a 10m raid to begin with, let alone mid-expansion. The fun of running a guild rather then just being a loot-collecting member. /shrug

    It's ALMOST like I said that your individual strategy worked for your individual group, but was by no means the only nor single solution for everyone's like last page or something. Weird, I know.
    Vampire Zombie Werewolf

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Murdos View Post
    Nope, we've had several people quit raiding due to IRL reasons (Surgery for one, Military for another, one had a baby, and another is moving to another country) So our bench is pretty much entirely gone. You're just restating problems we already know we have. It's hard enough to recruit bench for a 10m raid to begin with, let alone mid-expansion. The fun of running a guild rather then just being a loot-collecting member. /shrug

    It's ALMOST like I said that your individual strategy worked for your individual group, but was by no means the only nor single solution for everyone's like last page or something. Weird, I know.
    You are focusing on one component, your selfish im the best in the world attitude dps factor. How about the fact that if the warrior is tasked with this it requires other people to get involved and the fact that the margin for error is that small that you will likely have numerous unecessary wipes trying to do it this way. Its not like the enrage is going to be an issue if you are using a strat that entirely ignores the bats...

  11. #31
    I had my first try kiting tonight. I'm usually MT but tried switching to frost in blood pres for the hb + chillbains kite.

    I'll admit to having more than a little difficulty -always got caught by the bats at the first or second stomp. Reading around that a lot of the successful dk kite kills shave involved a warlock with COE to further slow the bats. Is the frost kite strategy viable without this? No warlock in our team, dps is hunter, mage, 2 x shammy & warrior. (no monk tank either)

    Any thoughts or tips appreciated.

  12. #32
    just have him use gorefiends to grip them away before the stomp.
    glyph IBF to get out of the stun more often

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Revenantparadigm View Post
    I had my first try kiting tonight. I'm usually MT but tried switching to frost in blood pres for the hb + chillbains kite.

    I'll admit to having more than a little difficulty -always got caught by the bats at the first or second stomp. Reading around that a lot of the successful dk kite kills shave involved a warlock with COE to further slow the bats. Is the frost kite strategy viable without this? No warlock in our team, dps is hunter, mage, 2 x shammy & warrior. (no monk tank either)

    Any thoughts or tips appreciated.
    Are you glyphing IBF to skip the stun from Quake Stomp? Should allow you to only get stunned ever other I believe.

    Priest/ druid speed boost would help as well, dunno what you healers are.

  14. #34
    If you read the rest of the thread use RW/GG and glyph IBF for more stomp uses. Any other raid slows like frost trap/RoF etc etc. With your team you have shit loads of slows/stuns through trap and double earthbind/capacitor, not to mention cone of cold plus RoF etc.

    Just make sure you have a stun/slow before the stomp and get a decent distance away before so they don't catch up.

  15. #35
    I'm on bat kiting duty for H Tortos and it's definitely easy once you coordinate some things with team mates. Firstly we have the heal monks drop the jade statue near the melee group and our DKs have a Gorefiend's Grasp Macro to send all the bats to the statue. This way if the bats start to scatter a bit and aren't grouped up optimally, this helps with that. Also having a warlock stun them after the grip allows everyone to throw some AOE on them and dots. This makes old bat groups die over time and makes you have to deal with less bats in the long run.

    Glyphing IBF is great for avoiding every other stun and I also use conversion since I'm always swimming in runic power. Popping conversion right before each stun allows you to stack our crystal shield while you're stunned and avoids you losing it from the splash damage after the stomp. Glyphing DnD is good too for an added slow that costs an Unholy rune instead of Frost.

    One aspect that i found made kiting easier is ask your warlock to Shadowfury the bats right before a new set comes out. Sometimes it's disorienting having to look at the ceiling for new bats and you lose sight of the old bats or they end up closing some of the distance. Also. use Pillar of Frost if you're about to get hit by a turtle, it makes you immune to the knockback and it's less likely to get you killed by making you land in the group of bats.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Murdos View Post
    Because I can do 150k dps single-target. He can't.
    You'r assuming that every Frost DK can hold 150k dps, that's not always the case. if you can bring in a strong single target class like an Enhancement shaman or a rogue to sit on the boss and just nuke the crap out of it then you could beat enrage timers that some groups have trouble with. As far as kiting ive been doing it since Magmaw in BWD where i kited the worms with both my dk and my hunter and just nuked boss. On this fight you would want the dk to kite cause killing turtles sucks as melee

    The bats have a lot of hp collectively and if you remove that aspect then you make the fight easier for the other 9 raiders.... that and you fell like a badass when you dont screw up.... not even once.

  17. #37
    High Overlord Auk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Murdos View Post
    It's ALMOST like I said that your individual strategy worked for your individual group, but was by no means the only nor single solution for everyone's like last page or something. Weird, I know.
    What relevance to this thread does this have? The OP is asking for advice on how to kite bats, not whether or not it's a viable strategy.

    My guild just killed heroic Tortos this week with me kiting, I'd really recommend using Gorefiend's Grasp. I didn't find Desecrated Ground needed at all, in fact I barely had to use IBF. Picking up newly spawning adds is tricky but there are certain things that can make your life easier. A few examples are a Holy/Protection Paladin with Righteous Fury, Shadowfury and Misdirection. I'm sure there are many more you can utilise.

    Purgatory can give you a get out of jail free card if you make a mistake but your healers have to react quickly to it. Always keep up Blood Presence after your initial DPS burn on the boss before the first set of bats spawn, it increases the size of your crystal and makes picking up bats that little bit easier. Having a Chains of Ice mouseover macro is also useful as you don't need to be facing a crystal then.
    Last edited by Auk; 2013-05-03 at 05:48 PM.

  18. #38
    I think people necroing a month-old thread to try to call me out, out of context is adorable.

    Since this is apparently the purpose of this thread, not to actually argue with me but come back a month and change later to chew old soup and try to 'call me out', can we get this thread locked? Pretty sure it's done run it's course.
    Last edited by Murdos; 2013-05-03 at 07:46 PM.
    Vampire Zombie Werewolf

  19. #39
    High Overlord Auk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Murdos View Post
    I think people necroing a month-old thread to try to call me out, out of context is adorable.

    Since this is apparently the purpose of this thread, not to actually argue with me but come back a month and change later to chew old soup and try to 'call me out', can we get this thread locked? Pretty sure it's done run it's course.
    Didn't notice that this was necroed but Revenantparadigm did post yesterday asking for advice so there isn't much point in him starting a new thread when this one exists.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Auk View Post
    Didn't notice that this was necroed but Revenantparadigm did post yesterday asking for advice so there isn't much point in him starting a new thread when this one exists.
    Yeah, Dragonslices necroed it like two days ago after it'd been dead and buried for like a month after we'd settled that if your comp supports kiting it's viable, but if it doesn't, so is just tanking the bats. It depends less on your tanks and more your Healer/DPS makeup on where you make the call, which was my entire point. People keep missing that and cherry-picking my responses to try to start a flamewar.

    I think it is a bit amusing that he's trying to argue that not every frost DK can do 150k on Heroic Tortos then. Our Beartank did 176k on our Normal Kill this week. I did 192k. Neither of us are fantastically over-geared. If you can't break 150k on that fight, I can't really figure why you're allowed to do heroics. :/

    Either way, I figure this deserves closing or people to get back on the topic.
    Vampire Zombie Werewolf

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