1. #1

    Stoneskin Gargoyle vs Swordshattering

    Which is better for PvE progression as a Blood DK? Rune of the Stoneskin Gargoyle or Rune of Swordshattering. I know you want a high Parry amount but is it worth losing the HP and Armor?

  2. #2
    In my opinion, for progression, I would say Stoneskin Gargoyle.


    Something I would recommend trying would be, pairing it with the "Conversion" talent and a heavy stamina focused DK (without loss of mastery), You could possibly keep the talent up and replace avoidance with consistent self-healing.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by rukbat14 View Post
    In my opinion, for progression, I would say Stoneskin Gargoyle.


    Something I would recommend trying would be, pairing it with the "Conversion" talent and a heavy stamina focused DK (without loss of mastery), You could possibly keep the talent up and replace avoidance with consistent self-healing.
    The problem with taking Conversion for progression is that burst damage is generally the tank killer, not consistent damage (where you'd see a benefit in using Conversion). Add in the fact that you have to use RP for Conversion, reducing Rune Strike usage and rune regeneration thus fewer death strikes available. Conversion can theoretically outheal Death Pact over an entire fight but I cannot think of an instance where Conversion is better on progression.

  4. #4
    My ideal with Conversion was to preserve healer mana for those times where you do take burst damage (which is usually not that often) rather than a "oh shit I'm gunna die" talent. As an example, having full hp versus having 50% hp and taking a large hit that would bring you to a smaller hp %, (such as 15%?) was my thinking. Also with DK's having Purgatory, I personally don't find the absolute "need" for Death Pact.

    Again, just my opinion/play style. To each their own

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by rukbat14 View Post
    Also with DK's having Purgatory, I personally don't find the absolute "need" for Death Pact.
    so you have purgatory procc and do nothing and die lol
    one of the best uses for Death pact is usually right when purgatory procced. especially if you have unskilled or no paladins who dont instantly use lay on hands you

    conversation paired with purgatory helps the boss to kill you since if you have bad luck, a conversation tick brings you back from -hp removing purgatory and bringing you to 1-6k hp. then you eat the next hit/dot/auratick and die instantly in a matter of milliseconds right after it procced

    back to topic. if you choose to follow avoidance>hit/exp go with sword shattering if you go hit/exp>avoidance or are bad geared go with stoneskin. avoidance gets better the more you have. if you dont go for avoidance the 4% doesnt make a real difference.
    it can change on specific encounters like garajal or council of the elders were you always want the 4% parry more than anything else. fallen crusader is also an option for fights were you dont risk dying since its heal proccs pretty often and it helps to increase your dps drastically while also giving you a ~2% parry. and yes tank dps matters sometimes
    Last edited by Raegwyn; 2013-03-13 at 12:29 AM.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by rukbat14 View Post
    My ideal with Conversion was to preserve healer mana for those times where you do take burst damage (which is usually not that often) rather than a "oh shit I'm gunna die" talent. As an example, having full hp versus having 50% hp and taking a large hit that would bring you to a smaller hp %, (such as 15%?) was my thinking. Also with DK's having Purgatory, I personally don't find the absolute "need" for Death Pact.

    Again, just my opinion/play style. To each their own

    As Projali stated: the only time a tank will ever die (especially a dk) is unexpected burst damage that wasn't properly mitigated with cooldowns, a tank swap going wrong, or a healer falling asleep. Assuming you have a competent raid team the latter is going to be extremely rare. Conversion may provide more overall effective healing than death pact in almost all cases, but I'd argue that the conversion healing is relatively unimportant since you basically just pad the over healing meters for the healers as their HoT spells heal you at full hp. The only time I think that conversion MAY outperform death pact is on a constant damage fight where threat is not a top priority. The only one that comes to mind is heroic will of the emp and the burst damage they can put out at times would still cause me to ere on the side of death pact. Furthermore, death pact can be macroed to vampiric which converts your 50% heal into a near complete heal on demand.



    Also you seem relatively confused in assuming tank healing causes healers to go out of mana. Raid damage is what causes healers to go out of mana due to the inefficiency in group/fast heals. Disqualifying special abilities most healers could afk heal a tank and never drop below 90% mana.

  7. #7
    I vote for Fallen Crusader.
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  8. #8
    Fallen Crusader, every single day of the year.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Raegwyn View Post
    so you have purgatory procc and do nothing and die lol
    one of the best uses for Death pact is usually right when purgatory procced. especially if you have unskilled or no paladins who dont instantly use lay on hands you

    conversation paired with purgatory helps the boss to kill you since if you have bad luck, a conversation tick brings you back from -hp removing purgatory and bringing you to 1-6k hp. then you eat the next hit/dot/auratick and die instantly in a matter of milliseconds right after it procced
    This, purgatory is absolutely pointless in soloing, and EVEN in raiding, if you just used lichborne, you'd have healed up to full hp with that vengeance, whereas purgatory itself leaves you at low hp unless you get heals (which you wouldn't need with lichborne), not to mention the lower cd.

    Fallen crusader here too, and if I really have to choose between the 2, stoneskin, more hp.

  10. #10
    There is really no clear cut winner and it varies between fights.
    are you dying to enrage timer or low dps? use fallen crusader. (or if it's farm just use it for higher dps)
    is it tons of magic damage? SSG is better (spellshattering could even be better)
    is it tons of parryable damage? swordshattering is better.

    from a pure stand point the 4% parry without DR is by far the best. but that really doesn't mean anything.
    Last edited by bals; 2013-05-05 at 09:35 AM.

  11. #11
    According to The Experts (formerly known as The T9 Dwarf With Glasses), Swordshattering provides more sustained survival, and SSG provides more burst mitigation, making SS better for 10n, 10H, and 25n, with SSG slightly better for 25H, or any content you undergear by over 15 ilvl. With FC being better only if you don't need any survival boost at all (superfarm content). If you need FC's 15% strength (which comes to 15% of jack squat compared to Vengeance), your dps are doing it very wrong.
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omertocracy View Post
    According to The Experts (formerly known as The T9 Dwarf With Glasses), Swordshattering provides more sustained survival, and SSG provides more burst mitigation, making SS better for 10n, 10H, and 25n, with SSG slightly better for 25H, or any content you undergear by over 15 ilvl. With FC being better only if you don't need any survival boost at all (superfarm content). If you need FC's 15% strength (which comes to 15% of jack squat compared to Vengeance), your dps are doing it very wrong.
    15% increased strength = ~15% increased parry gained from Strength.

    952 Strength equals 1% Parry at level 90. If you have 15k Strength raidbuffed, you'd have 15.7% Parry just from that, Fallen Crusader would boost it to 18.1% for the duration.

    Thing is, Fallen Crusader Scales, meaning the more gear you get, the better it is. Swordshattering is always 4% Parry, meaning it's really good at the start of an expansion and "shit" at the end of the expansion. Although, I doubt we will ever see FC outscaling SS

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Esploratore View Post
    This, purgatory is absolutely pointless in soloing, and EVEN in raiding, if you just used lichborne, you'd have healed up to full hp with that vengeance
    Wat?

    Did you really have to revive a 2 month old thread to post this nonsense?
    Armories:
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    Dk: Telare
    Warrior: Irlida

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Nillo View Post
    Wat?

    Did you really have to revive a 2 month old thread to post this nonsense?
    Even though I absolutely disagree with Esplo, if there is a thing I despise it's being closed-minded. I'm referring to your stance on LB and to an extent Death Siphon.

    Almost all of our talents have situational uses, Durumu is LB fight, Purg is great for HC's, Death Siphon is amazing for Horridon Normal (if used smartly on excess runes and that way taking advantage of DS damage-taken window), the trade-off is a little less damage migitation and burst healing versus much more healing/damage,

    Even AMZ has a situational use on Lei-Shen for Static Shock soaking.

    There's no 'my way or the highway' which is the impression I'm getting from some of the people on this forum. I'm not looking for a fight or anything, just it would be cool if the whole condescending attitude could be toned down, especially towards newcomers of both the class and the forum.
    The dragons' flame sealed my fate. The world of the living can no longer comfort me.

  15. #15
    Yea locking this, near 2 month old necro that really didn't have anything to do with the OP.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hellkung View Post
    Even AMZ has a situational use on Lei-Shen for Static Shock soaking.
    Small note on this, because of the interaction between AMS and AMZ, AMZ is near pointless for static shock unless you are using it for someone else and even then its not amazing. However you can use IBF, AMS and Purgatory+death pact+healer heals to survive static shock. It is possible to soak static shock during the second transition even with this method and a lay on hands from a paladin.

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