Do people on constant welfare/benefits contribute to society ?

[holyunholy]

People on welfare and so called disability benefits take in more than they give back to society. Even if they are capable of some sort of work, they prefer to not work and live at the expense of taxpayers. Someone I knew on benefits spent most of his time at the horse tracks betting his allowance.
The welfare state and its abuse is extremely unfair to those who work and try to actually contribute to society. So if "welfarists" do not contribute to society should they have a say in how it runs ?

Damn Typos !

Do people on welfare contribute to society:

Option 1 Yes and they should be allowed to vote
Option 2 Yes but they should NOT be allowed to vote till they work
Option 3 No but they should be allowed to vote
Option 4 No and they should not be allowed to vote

[Rukentuts]

From an economic standpoint, they contribute more than wealthy that hoard.

PS: The idea that welfare abuse is rampant is nothing more that political posturing.

[Cybran]

Why do you have to lump people with disabilities in there?

[Redblade]

In a capitalistic society you need a certain percentage of the population to be unemployed for the relative power to remain in the hands of the employer. These people need to be supported in some way as they do play a part in the type of society we have chosen for our selfs, if it wouldn't be welfare it would have to be something else.

At the end of they day any welfare abuse happens because the system allows it, not that it's proven that there is any massive abuse in any modern society.

Edit: If you want to exclude people from voting I'd personally start with people who believe literately in religious texts written a few thousand years ago, people who do retarded stuff in front of a camera to upload it on YouTube and so on. Not saying they can't do or believe what they want, just that if they chose to they shouldn't have an impact on how society is run.

[vaeevictiss]

you should need to provide an ID and proof of paying taxes to be able to vote.

But there is no incentive when every mexican running over the border gets to vote.

[Daelak]

In a capitalistic society you need a certain percentage of the population to be unemployed for the relative power to remain in the hands of the employer. These people need to be supported in some way as they do play a part in the type of society we have chosen for our selfs, if it wouldn't be welfare it would have to be something else.

At the end of they day any welfare abuse happens because the system allows it, not that it's proven that there is any massive abuse in any modern society.

This. If anything, welfare benefits should be expanded and raised.

Might be slightly off-topic, however it is pretty damning. If you increased the income tax rates of the top 1% of taxpayers by a minimal amount, you could halve the deficit in one year. If you increased it to higher levels, you could eliminate THE DEBT within a decade, so pray tell OP, why is the WELFARE (infants, women, and the elderly) of the weakest people in our society, such a big deal, when the wealthiest in this country pay the LEAST amount they ever have in the history of the US.

[holyunholy]

This. If anything, welfare benefits should be expanded and raised.

Might be slightly off-topic, however it is pretty damning. If you increased the income tax rates of the top 1% of taxpayers by a minimal amount, you could halve the deficit in one year. If you increased it to higher levels, you could eliminate THE DEBT within a decade, so pray tell OP, why is the WELFARE (infants, women, and the elderly) of the weakest people in our society, such a big deal, when the wealthiest in this country pay the LEAST amount they ever have in the history of the US.

The wealthy especially in the US are mostly self made and are wealthy because of their entrepreneurial spirit, innovation and have contributed to society in some way or the other.
My question is what do the people on eternal welfare contribute to society ? If they do not contribute , then should they have a say in how it runs ?

[Rukentuts]

The wealthy especially in the US are mostly self made and are wealthy because of their entrepreneurial spirit, innovation and have contributed to society in some way or the other.
My question is what do the people on eternal welfare contribute to society ? If they do not contribute , then should they have a say in how it runs ?

The lower class as a whole contributes more economically than the top few. This is a fact. In addition, constitutional rights no longer discriminate based on the old-school "landowner"-type status. Every citizen has a voice.

[holyunholy]

In a capitalistic society you need a certain percentage of the population to be unemployed for the relative power to remain in the hands of the employer. These people need to be supported in some way as they do play a part in the type of society we have chosen for our selfs, if it wouldn't be welfare it would have to be something else.

At the end of they day any welfare abuse happens because the system allows it, not that it's proven that there is any massive abuse in any modern society.

Edit: If you want to exclude people from voting I'd personally start with people who believe literately in religious texts written a few thousand years ago, people who do retarded stuff in front of a camera to upload it on YouTube and so on. Not saying they can't do or believe what they want, just that if they chose to they shouldn't have an impact on how society is run.

Yes, in economic theory having some proportion of the population unemployed is healthy and natural. However this does not apply to people who are constantly on welfare with nothing to offer. Taking from society with minimal or no contribution is detrimental to the community as a whole. Free riders chose not to be productive, so should they be allowed to have a voice is saying how society runs.

[Tastyfish]

Must be a new week, another welfare poll question is out.

[Rukentuts]

Free riders chose not to be productive

Yes. All those disabled and elderly chose to be that way. I'm sure they appreciate the sentiment.

[Tastyfish]

Taking from society with minimal or no contribution is detrimental to the community as a whole. Free riders chose not to be productive, so should they be allowed to have a voice is saying how society runs.

Are you part of your non computer community?
Just wondering.

[Redblade]

My question is what do the people on eternal welfare contribute to society ? If they do not contribute , then should they have a say in how it runs ?

They fill the roll of being unemployed, try passing a law that lowers the workday to 6 hours instead of 8 hours for example, it would effectively provide enough jobs for everyone, so to the point where the worker could make much higher demands than today as the shortage would be workers and not jobs.

Most people don't realize the simple fact that unemployment is a necessity in the capitalistic society.

[NeonX]

Yes I feel they do contribute to society as whole but it really depends on the individual.

Also even if they didn't I would never be supportive of rescinding someone's right to vote unless in prison.

[GreatOak]

Some do, some don't

They're just like the wealthy in that regard

Some form of welfare/healthcare is needed though to prevent unrest. It's a necessary evil in my opinion.

Everyone should be able to vote though, regardless of position. I even think felons should be able to vote after they leave prison like they do in Illinois.

[Arlon]

The wealthy especially in the US are mostly self made and are wealthy because of their entrepreneurial spirit, innovation and have contributed to society in some way or the other.
My question is what do the people on eternal welfare contribute to society ? If they do not contribute , then should they have a say in how it runs ?

The wealthy are made by the society. It is society that contributes itself by allowing the existens of theese wealthy in the first place.

Eternal welfare contributes to the morality of a society. I have no interest to live in such a society that does not give welfare, the moral implications are far more reaching than just "welfare".(Schooling, infrastructure and goverment subsiding etc.)

And it´s really just a myth that people like mooching off. Give people a job on which they can survive and not break a leg, they will happily do it.

[Cybran]

The lower class as a whole contributes more economically than the top few. This is a fact. In addition, constitutional rights no longer discriminate based on the old-school "landowner"-type status. Every citizen has a voice.

"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter." - Winston Churchill

I would rather live in a world where people with education get to decide the future instead.

[holyunholy]

Why do you have to lump people with disabilities in there?

I meant it in the sense that there is a perception that having a disability means you are unable to work. This is especially more pronounced recently. Some of the greatest scientists in our past generations have had some sort of handicap. However these days claiming to have a disability means you have a guaranteed income stream from the welfare department. So there is no incentive to even try to be productive.

---------- Post added 2013-04-04 at 10:18 AM ----------

Most people don't realize the simple fact that unemployment is a necessity in the capitalistic society.

In my response which you quoted I said that having a proportion of unemployed is natural and healthy. No one is talking about full employment all the time as that is unreasonable. However having the same group of people unemployed and never working is not a natural economic outcome unless there is an incentive to simply not work.

[BananaHandsB]

You must be completely ignorant of what your implying. I can't think of anyone, even the extremely wealthy who believes in plutocracy. It's usually used as a joke, since in some way America is run by the wealthy. A system of government where only the wealthy vote is just ridiculous. That's not democracy, that's plutocracy, and seriously I think you just didn't realize how silly of an idea that would be, I've literally never heard some1 suggest that aside from in jest. Stripping people of their rights is not good practice, no matter how self-righteous you feel. We usually only do it to felons, and even then its questionable. Do yourself a favor and read a little about plutocracy's and how corrupt they become.

[GreatOak]

you should need to provide an ID and proof of paying taxes to be able to vote.

But there is no incentive when every mexican running over the border gets to vote.

That's a pretty ignorant statement in my opinion. Just sayin'

Voting is the cornerstone of our society and should be easy. There's also this thing called the constitution, and has a couple amendments that would like a word with you.