1. #1
    Scarab Lord Mokoshne's Avatar
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    Heroic Horridon vs Assasination

    Hi

    The rogue in my raid team is struggling to keep up with the rest of us dps on heroic horridon, yet i see some amazing parses on world of logs for assassination rogues. I was wondering if any skilled rogues could explain what they do on each door to maximise their dps.

    Logs for analysis of what Dylly is doing wrong. http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/n...ses&boss=68476 and this one

    Thanks in advance for any help
    Last edited by Mokoshne; 2013-04-05 at 02:10 PM. Reason: added url
    My weekly podcast can be downloaded here this week we discuss the Warlords of Draenor launch night and a butcher that goes insane

  2. #2
    55% uptime on slice and dice can be the reason. Don't know anyway if Heroic Horridon has so much downtime that you cannot keep it up, but i think it's very unlikely. Also only 5% of Envenom uptime.

    If he's not using it, tell him to take Marked for death as lvl 90 talent.

    EDIT: assuming this is his armory http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Dylly/advanced he reforged for expertise and has very low mastery and he's way over the hit cap, ask him from where he gets his reforges from.

    EDIT2: another thing, it seems that he's going to match all socket colors on gear and he's overcapping hit with the gems.
    Last edited by Coldkil; 2013-04-05 at 02:21 PM.

  3. #3
    ive watched ur logs he has ha very bad uptime of rupture and slice and dice tell him he should use marked for death in the t 6 talent tree
    that alone should net him overall more dps on the adds
    using MfD on the mainkilling target and everything should be fine

    english isnt my native but i hope u can read it :=)

    hmm coldkill was faster then me :P

  4. #4
    Yup exactly what the other guys are saying...his rupture and snd uptime is...well....really poor. and it doesnt just seem as if its for horridon either, some of your other logs show the same issues.

    As for his reforges, i'd recommend getting him to use either reforgelite or shadowcraft.

  5. #5
    The Patient Mutix's Avatar
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    Get him to whore on boss instead of adds

  6. #6
    Mutix you mean! Ranked 1st :P (gratz)

    Back on topic: other rogues have confirmed my thoughts - he's a very poor rogue player (no offense) because he's failing the core mechanic of the class. Horridon wiith a lot of switching surely leads to a great dps loss, but not on that magnitude.

  7. #7
    Scarab Lord Mokoshne's Avatar
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    thanks for the feedback Coldkil, Gniifail Spex & Mutix, i really appreciate it.
    My weekly podcast can be downloaded here this week we discuss the Warlords of Draenor launch night and a butcher that goes insane

  8. #8
    After what Coldkil pointed out: have your rogue spec MfD and use it on every low-health add ASAP - it resets every time they die, and with "minis" (the auto-spawns from every door that don't stop until the dinomancer's orb is channeled, basilisks etc.), your rogue should be *swimming* in combo points and energy (since rupture refunds energy if it's still active on a target when that target dies). Tell him to stop trying to AoE unless he's using FoK to refresh poisons on Ruptured targets or you've got tooo many adds alive... and he should probably review some basic rogue play & edit his UI so he knows what's going on at any point in time. Having slice and dice down is a no-no, and using other finishers (http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/n...?s=8368&e=8701 - 2 envenoms without SnD and (4?) crimson tempests during that pull) is a real waste; missing SnD, Rupture and Envenom uptime, as well as using Crimson Tempest with only 2 targets in range are all in the category of "general rogue play."

    Note the above only applies if you care about add damage. If Horridon damage is your issue and the adds die on time without the rogue's fault, feel free to sic 'em on him and just tunnel away the entire fight, but rogues... aren't weak on this for the adds either.

    Please refer your rogue to the sticky at the top of this forum for useful links and guides for assassination play - Coldkil's guide (it's in his sig) is a good place to start.

  9. #9
    Your logs are irrelevant to "amazing parses of assassination rogues".
    Pick random assassination parse and check actual DPS before burn phase, you might be surprised.
    For example here 60k DPS before burn, 206 in the end of the fight.

  10. #10
    that's not necessarily true Mazius, most good rogues do great dps the whole time on that fight( aoe and/or target switching )

  11. #11
    Grunt Drunkhobo's Avatar
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    Without the burn phase, his damage will not be that high even with MfD. I only do around 80-100k during adds phase and then fly above 200k during burn

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Wheelchair View Post
    that's not necessarily true Mazius, most good rogues do great dps the whole time on that fight( aoe and/or target switching )
    Rogue from OP does up to 150k dps till the moment when they actually wipe. It's pretty much OK and his performance has nothing to do with wipes on transition from farraki to gurubashi gate or at gurubashi gate.
    Best try - wipe after dinomancer spawn at drakkari gate.
    Rogue performance is ok and the problems are elsewhere.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Mazius View Post
    Rogue from OP does up to 150k dps till the moment when they actually wipe. It's pretty much OK and his performance has nothing to do with wipes on transition from farraki to gurubashi gate or at gurubashi gate.
    Best try - wipe after dinomancer spawn at drakkari gate.
    Rogue performance is ok and the problems are elsewhere.
    Rogue performance, to look at try 11, may not be giving terrible DPS, and may not be wiping the raid, but neither is that what the OP is saying, nor does it mean his performance is okay (SnD dropping?). The OP came here asking what the rogue in his raid could be doing better, and that's the light of the responses here. Please also note that while the rogue is pulling 50-200k real-time DPS through the encounter (104k overall), he's still the lowest of his raid, which is probably what peaked the concern.

    If the rogue in question follows the advice posted in this thread, his/her damage will come up. Why would you try to argue about something irrelevant to that comment?

    Counter argument part 2: from that log you linked where the rogue is "60k DPS before burn", the rogue in question is only at 60k as his lowest DPS in the run. If you snip the log to pre-burn you end up with: http://worldoflogs.com/reports/ps6oj...?s=1497&e=1955 - 142k DPS before the burn phase. I'm not saying that's needed or realistic, but that's what the log shows.


    Not directed at Mazius, but all posters saying the damage is fine: if you do enough damage for an encounter but could seriously improve your damage without playing a significantly harder rotation, would you want someone to tell you? I would o.O
    Last edited by Kael; 2013-04-06 at 07:17 PM.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Mugajak View Post
    Rogue performance, to look at try 11, may not be giving terrible DPS, and may not be wiping the raid, but neither is that what the OP is saying, nor does it mean his performance is okay (SnD dropping?). The OP came here asking what the rogue in his raid could be doing better, and that's the light of the responses here. Please also note that while the rogue is pulling 50-200k real-time DPS through the encounter (104k overall), he's still the lowest of his raid, which is probably what peaked the concern.
    SnD dropping during transition from farraki to gurubashi gate is explainable.
    Horridon just crushed the gate, usially several sand traps around the gate, right after gate horridon turns to tank and starts to cast double swipe. There's no reason for melee to stay on horridon/adds at that moment. So just let the ranged to finish off wastewalkers and wait for horridon to be moved to gurubashi gate.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mugajak View Post
    If the rogue in question follows the advice posted in this thread, his/her damage will come up. Why would you try to argue about something irrelevant to that comment?
    MfD is bad advice. Don't believe me - go to WoL and check top 40 assassination rogues (US + EU) on Horridon HC. "Предчувствие" is russian for "anticipation", "Erwartung" is german.

  15. #15
    Mazius - pull 11, since you brought it up earlier - Dylly applies rupture and uses envenom twice while he doesn't have SnD. The log speaks for itself; he had CP, and a target in melee range. What are you trying to prove?

    On-topic: As for MfD I can't say it's perfect, but if you're struggling to reach the end of the fight and need more damage on adds, it's not about maximizing your total damage, it's about getting more damage on the adds, which MfD is perfect for. If you need more damage on Horridon or your rogue can't manage MfD properly, anticipation is, as always, the go to talent.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Mugajak View Post
    On-topic: As for MfD I can't say it's perfect, but if you're struggling to reach the end of the fight and need more damage on adds, it's not about maximizing your total damage, it's about getting more damage on the adds, which MfD is perfect for. If you need more damage on Horridon or your rogue can't manage MfD properly, anticipation is, as always, the go to talent.
    Horridon HC was never about damage on adds, it's about single target DPS on war-god and horridon.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Mazius View Post
    Horridon HC was never about damage on adds, it's about single target DPS on war-god and horridon.
    Well, killing the venom priests before they can spawn their add is always better, but you don't really need MfD for that.

  18. #18
    Immortal Ryme's Avatar
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    I can't bear MfD on that fight, so much micro management required and your target management needs to be sweet in a fight that requires a lot of visual coordination.

    The main issue in dps is the low uptime in SnD and envenom, in which case, better trackers would be the advice I would give since the UI is probably at fault.
    Last edited by Ryme; 2013-04-09 at 10:52 AM.
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  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by ninfame View Post
    Well, killing the venom priests before they can spawn their add is always better, but you don't really need MfD for that.
    In 25HC you can do it with 1st priest only -> dinomancer jumps down before you can kill next 2 priests, and preventing 2nd cast of heal (1st tick always hits, no matter interrupts) is more important than preventing 2 effusions spawn.

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