Thread: DPS BiS lists

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  1. #21
    Deleted
    You are right Recke, thanks for enlightening me.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Recke View Post
    I may be a little off, so pardon me if I am(I mostly focus on Arms, which could be confusing my assessment), but if you are going 4 piece Tier 15, due to the excess amount of Hit you will have on your gear, I believe that Primordius' Talisman of Rage is better than Fabled Feather of Ji-Kun. Gaze would still be the 2nd trinket.
    I would agree due to the massive amount of hit, but from a fury point of view and from what I've seen people post and say about the trinket it's supposedly really strong and is definetly better than most trinkets. Primordius' is good, dont get me wrong, but I have it myself but I rarely if ever see more than 3 procs, I've seen 1 proc at 4 in the 4 weeks i've had it and never seen 5. And hit above 7.5% isnt a complete waste either. It's still better than haste.

    From an Arms side of things on the other hand I have no clue, hence why I'm asking people to help me out with the actual set as fury and arms are different when it comes to value of haste for one, and as I've not bothered with arms AT ALL since the first 3-4 weeks of the expansion and it got nerfed to the ground in pvp.

  3. #23
    Deleted
    Hit past soft-cap higher than haste? Pretty sure that's not the case since the haste buff, simcraft certainly doesn't suggest so anyway. With no rppm trinket and no legendary meta gem (both of which would increase the benefit of haste more than white hit) haste is giving me 1.83 dps per point while hit past 7.5% is giving me 1.57 dps per point.

    Not saying that feathers is bad due to the overcap hit, just querying the assertion that white hit > haste.

  4. #24
    I have the heroic version of Fabled Feather and I can say the trinket is f'ing amazing, outside of when it doesn't proc on the pull. It's proc is wonky, I've had it proc back to back on a pull but then also go without a minute before it procs. It still has around 30% uptime, which is good. It's also the type of trinket that you can game around a bit to get absurd damage on your Dragon Roar.

  5. #25
    Question about the Trinkets:
    1-Fabled H
    2-Gaze H or Primordius H ?

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by cloudrox View Post
    Question about the Trinkets:
    1-Fabled H
    2-Gaze H or Primordius H ?
    Gaze is the other BIS trinket.

  7. #27
    is the 4 set piece bonus really worth it?

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Juni View Post
    I would agree due to the massive amount of hit, but from a fury point of view and from what I've seen people post and say about the trinket it's supposedly really strong and is definetly better than most trinkets. Primordius' is good, dont get me wrong, but I have it myself but I rarely if ever see more than 3 procs, I've seen 1 proc at 4 in the 4 weeks i've had it and never seen 5. And hit above 7.5% isnt a complete waste either. It's still better than haste.

    From an Arms side of things on the other hand I have no clue, hence why I'm asking people to help me out with the actual set as fury and arms are different when it comes to value of haste for one, and as I've not bothered with arms AT ALL since the first 3-4 weeks of the expansion and it got nerfed to the ground in pvp.
    The value of hit above hit cap for Fury is worse than the value of haste. I used both Landsoul and Quiks, and I can probably go more, but as example:
    Landsoul's stat weights.
    Str=1
    Crit=0.89
    Mastery=0.88
    Haste=0.59
    Hit=0.47

    Hit is marginally worse than everything else. I'm expecting the gap between Haste and Hit to grow when he gets the Legendary meta, since it's another RPPM factor that normally leads to ~5k dps gain.

    But as for the Feather on Fury, I think it'd be better as well, especially since it's more burst orientated, but I think that only depends if the gained hit isn't too much.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-10 at 09:03 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Pharos View Post
    is the 4 set piece bonus really worth it?
    This is in the air. It really depends. I believe the favor is in 4 set being worth it. I personally won't be going for it if I can avoid it (and get the optimal off tier spots) however, if you don't have the 541 counterparts, I'm pretty sure even 522 4 set compared to 535 off pieces is a dps upgrade (4set>535).

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Recke View Post
    The value of hit above hit cap for Fury is worse than the value of haste. I used both Landsoul and Quiks, and I can probably go more, but as example:
    Landsoul's stat weights.
    Str=1
    Crit=0.89
    Mastery=0.88
    Haste=0.59
    Hit=0.47

    Hit is marginally worse than everything else. I'm expecting the gap between Haste and Hit to grow when he gets the Legendary meta, since it's another RPPM factor that normally leads to ~5k dps gain.

    But as for the Feather on Fury, I think it'd be better as well, especially since it's more burst orientated, but I think that only depends if the gained hit isn't too much.
    Yeah, I realized I based my statement on some pretty old information (pre-5.2) and after testing with different amounts of hit, and what not I realize I was just plain wrong. But based on the numbers u show above, being overcapped isnt horrible. And if anything it works towards our 2-set, so at least we get something out of it :P

  10. #30
    I have a 4 trinkets. Talisman, feather , gaze and prim. Initial pair of fabled+twins now replaced with Feather + Talisman.
    This despite me reaching 8.5% hit and 9%expertise. It appears that talisman>twins even with the excessive exepertise.

    My basis of decision making: Simcraft

    The difficulty of stacking stacks for both twins and primodorius appears to be the problem. Blizzard did a nerf on talisman in PVP which to me shows that the burst capability of talisman is Imba. Fury is about burst.. And the 8800proc within the CD window is insane

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalmah View Post
    The belt in your list is a trash loot, the heroic version doesn't exist. The Jin'rokh belt is BiS.
    Trash loots does exist in heroic version, even thunderforged.

    http://www.wowhead.com/search?q=Aban...lari+Goreplate

  12. #32
    Just because it exists in wowhead doesn't mean it will drop.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalmah View Post
    Just because it exists in wowhead doesn't mean it will drop.
    That doesnt exclude it from a potential BiS list tho :P

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Juni View Post
    That doesnt exclude it from a potential BiS list tho :P
    ... Yes it does, because it can't drop.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by senturion View Post
    I have a 4 trinkets. Talisman, feather , gaze and prim. Initial pair of fabled+twins now replaced with Feather + Talisman.
    This despite me reaching 8.5% hit and 9%expertise. It appears that talisman>twins even with the excessive exepertise.

    My basis of decision making: Simcraft

    The difficulty of stacking stacks for both twins and primodorius appears to be the problem. Blizzard did a nerf on talisman in PVP which to me shows that the burst capability of talisman is Imba. Fury is about burst.. And the 8800proc within the CD window is insane
    I don't see how VP trinket can sim higher than Gaze for you when you are overcapping by that much. For me Gaze sims about 3k higher than Talisman of shadopan, granted I cannot reforge away enough exp so close to all the exp on the trink is wasted, but that does not account for 3k dps. Even if Gaze was slightly lower dps, which it isn't, I would still use it just cause it makes gameplay more fun. 5-14% extra crit with 40-50% uptime is amazing for enrage uptime and raging blow spammage, and because of how the trinket scales with itself and gear, I wouldn't be surprised to see it used long into the next raid tier.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xanthan View Post
    ... Yes it does, because it can't drop.
    It is tagged black market so its possible to get how ever......

  17. #37

    Arms BiS ideas

    before i begin i might add great job putting together that list.

    I am new to the site but not nessessarily new to arms or warrior in general. now i don't have solid math backing my oppinions on the gear selections, though i don't think there would be many changes already from the fury BiS list. after plenty of research i have formulated a few thoughts and the only real changes would be weapon, helm, shoulders, and 1 trinket. BiS weapon would be greatsword of Frozen Hells (heroic) and second would be the affor mentioned uroe h. use the t15h helm. shoulders off of heroic tortos. and replace feather with primordius' talisman of rage.

    to my knowledge haste's value grows as more gear becomes available and with the rPPM trinkets and legendary meta gem. I am by far not the best geared warrior either, being 499 ilvl, and mastery still bests haste by double. i believe at roughly ilvl 510 the stat weights will shift towards crit> haste >= mastery, from crit>mastery>haste, of course after recieving either the trinkets or the gem. and due to the chart in your original post at BiS gear weights will shift to 16k crit = haste > (either mastery > more crit, more crit >= mastery or more crit= mastery, from there i don't know.)

    by no means have i had the time to test any of this out, i'm only 499 ilvl and my guild has just downed council (unfortunately no weapon drop). I as well know that at that gear lvl fury definitly beats it out, no arguement from me there, but i'm probably going to stick with arms for the time being, doesn't mean when available weapons come my way i won't give fury more goes.
    Last edited by Bietr; 2013-04-19 at 07:02 AM. Reason: minor addition in the beginning complimenting the credit to the original poster.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalmah View Post
    Just because it exists in wowhead doesn't mean it will drop.
    Already seen other trash loot belt drop in heroic or tf version.

  19. #39
    Deleted
    No one's disputing trash loot can drop in thunderforged, but trash dropping in heroic makes no sense whatsoever. It isn't like trash is any different when the instance is set to heroic, so why would it drop heroic level loot? And all the trash loot we've had has been 522/528 even when the instance is set to heroic. You'll need to provide an armory link as proof of the claim that heroic trash loot can drop.

    I agree that it may appear on BMAH though.

  20. #40
    Why Gaze of the Twins instead of Primordius' Talisman of Rage ?
    Isn't flat crit + strength proc better than flat strength + crit proc?

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