Thread: Fix my dps!

  1. #1
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    Fix my dps!

    Hello, I'm looking for a bit of help with my Assassination rogue Doozy http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...s/Doozy/simple
    I apologize if there is a thread for this type of thing already, I searched and didn't find anything. Anyhoo, I went on shadowcraft earlier today and noticed it said I should be pulling somewhere in the ballpark of 105k~ with my 499 ilevel and 497/491 weapons. I usually average around 90k, and I'm doing everything I can think of to maximize my dps... Waiting until 75~ energy to envenom, keeping SnD/rupture up around 97% of the time on average, lining up my CD's with procs/lust/pots, pre-potting- I just can't seem to squeeze anymore out. Here's a log if it helps! http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/1...?s=2572&e=2963

    I realize that in that log I had lowish SnD uptime (88%) and also around 87% rupture uptime.
    "If MMORPG players were around when God said, "Let their be light"
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  2. #2
    It's pretty difficult to assess a fight with movement, ideally if you could grab a log on feng that would be perfect. With that said, I can't see too much wrong.

    Low snd/rupture like you said
    Reforging into hit when you're over cap?

    Problem with that fight is when you want to get the most out of your DPS, i.e. executing. You're running around like a headless chicken. It's honestly a poor comparison, though if you hit a dummy and get those results I think simulationcraft has settings for dummies.

  3. #3
    you cant take dps from shadowcraft as realistic DPS its only the theoreticaly possible dps that COULD be possible under perfect conditions the only time i got near my realistic dps of 126k was on durumu where i pretty much tunneled boss and had proc luck with my CD's i did 123k dps even if this was pretty close i realy had luck this time and it happens like 1 time out of 200 tries or more my avarage dps is at around 115k thats 11k away from what Shadowcraft tells
    the ultimate answer's to all rogue issues in MoP:

    -Reroll another class, who wants rougue's anyway.
    -Diablo 3 Sold 15 Million Copys
    -Haste will fix it
    -Rogue's are fine

  4. #4
    I wouldn't base your 'realistic' DPS on Simulation Craft. It's a great tool, but you should take into consideration a significant margin of error as well. There's no spreadsheet or simulation tool out there that can map human psychology and errors.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Barole View Post
    I wouldn't base your 'realistic' DPS on Simulation Craft. It's a great tool, but you should take into consideration a significant margin of error as well. There's no spreadsheet or simulation tool out there that can map human psychology and errors.
    Actually, Simc can model human error.


    OP: Your low SnD and Rupture uptime is fair given the condition that once phase two starts, you spend a bit of time off-target when running across the room. Both can drop during that time, as long as you get them both up asap you're ok. If you graph the SnD/rupture buffs, you'll see they fall off when your dps goes to 0--when you're running across the room.
    Last edited by shadowboy; 2013-04-06 at 12:59 PM.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by shadowboy View Post
    Actually, Simc can model human error.


    OP: Your low SnD and Rupture uptime is fair given the condition that once phase two starts, you spend a bit of time off-target when running across the room. Both can drop during that time, as long as you get them both up asap you're ok.
    I really find it hard to believe that a sim can model human behavior properly but then again I've been called a cynic more than once before!

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Barole View Post
    I really find it hard to believe that a sim can model human behavior properly but then again I've been called a cynic more than once before!
    Of course simc can model human behavior, it's constructed based on priority lists which is exactly how a human plays their character. What it does to model human error is give a chance to skip a higher priority abilities for the next one in the priority list, and at that next line, has a chance to do it again.

    This is where things get interesting. Using an older build of Simc (I'm using 520-2, current is 520-6), assassination's dps didn't change much as you went from Elite to Good to Average to "Ouch, fire is hot." The T15H BiS profile simmed at 188,339 with an elite player (no mistakes) and 186,452 with the lowest setting. Once you perform the same test with combat, you jump from 194,680 at elite to 170,644 "ouch, fire is hot" setting. Combat is much more sensitive to mistakes than assassination is--and that could be a very very big part why assassination is outperforming combat, no one is perfect (raid events also reduce combat's output more).
    Last edited by shadowboy; 2013-04-06 at 01:03 PM.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by shadowboy View Post
    Of course simc can model human behavior, it's constructed based on priority lists which is exactly how a human plays their character. What it does to model human error is give a chance to skip a higher priority abilities for the next one in the priority list, and at that next line, has a chance to do it again.

    This is where things get interesting. Using an older build of Simc (I'm using 520-2, current is 520-6), assassination's dps didn't change much as you went from Elite to Good to Average to "Ouch, fire is hot." The T15H BiS profile simmed at 188,339 with an elite player (no mistakes) and 186,452 with the lowest setting. Once you perform the same test with combat, you jump from 194,680 at elite to 170,644 "ouch, fire is hot" setting. Combat is much more sensitive to mistakes than assassination is--and that could be a very very big part why assassination is outperforming combat, no one is perfect (raid events also reduce combat's output more).
    well as far as i know assassination comes aheab IF you have to switch alot since combat is melee attack dependent so if you RUN around alot in a boss fight you get behind if you tunnel the boss you get ahead
    the ultimate answer's to all rogue issues in MoP:

    -Reroll another class, who wants rougue's anyway.
    -Diablo 3 Sold 15 Million Copys
    -Haste will fix it
    -Rogue's are fine

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Koji2k11 View Post
    well as far as i know assassination comes aheab IF you have to switch alot since combat is melee attack dependent so if you RUN around alot in a boss fight you get behind if you tunnel the boss you get ahead
    Assassination is melee attack dependent too. Most of assassination's damage comes from autoattacks.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by shadowboy View Post
    Assassination is melee attack dependent too. Most of assassination's damage comes from autoattacks.
    in my little world assa damage is poison caused by melee attacks BUT if you switch you DP still tiking and venemous wounds still tiking even if you dont autoattack the loss is not that big compared to combat where DP is not that strong and main damage sources are melee attacks ss and evis
    the ultimate answer's to all rogue issues in MoP:

    -Reroll another class, who wants rougue's anyway.
    -Diablo 3 Sold 15 Million Copys
    -Haste will fix it
    -Rogue's are fine

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Koji2k11 View Post
    in my little world assa damage is poison caused by melee attacks BUT if you switch you DP still tiking and venemous wounds still tiking even if you dont autoattack the loss is not that big compared to combat where DP is not that strong and main damage sources are melee attacks ss and evis
    No, combat's off-target damage stems from the fact that ~15% of combat's energy comes from combat potency, which you don't get if you aren't attacking.

    That rupture/venomous wounds would have ticked whether or not you were on target so it doesn't even matter. Think of it this way, say you do 400k damage between rupture and venomous wounds. If you cast a direct-damage attack for 400k and walked away, your damage would have been the same as if you cast rupture and walked away (actually, it would have been less if you cast rupture and walked away because because deadly poison only lasts 12sec, rupture lasts 24, so you'll only get half as many VW procs if you cast rupture and go off target).

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Koji2k11 View Post
    you cant take dps from shadowcraft as realistic DPS its only the theoreticaly possible dps that COULD be possible under perfect conditions the only time i got near my realistic dps of 126k was on durumu where i pretty much tunneled boss and had proc luck with my CD's i did 123k dps even if this was pretty close i realy had luck this time and it happens like 1 time out of 200 tries or more my avarage dps is at around 115k thats 11k away from what Shadowcraft tells
    I can assure you that achieving SC dps is entirely possible on fights. I have met or beat my SC simmed dps on current fights in ToT (Twin Consorts, Megaera, Durummu). It requires consistent play and a good understanding of pooling and managing trinket procs/cds.

    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-0c...?s=4268&e=4810

    SC simmed at : 142848.6 DPS (Gear at the time: http://shadowcraft.mmo-mumble.com/us...8gdkCupBOy4Ac=)

    This was on Twin Consorts which has moderate amounts of movement.

    To respond to the OP:

    You say you had lowish uptimes, but I would make the argument that your execution on mechanics for Blade Lord is causing that. The only times SnD or Rupture drops is due to the wind tunnel. You also could have waited a couple seconds on your last Vendetta to line up with Superluminal or even Heroism since that was your last Vendetta for the fight.
    Dropndestroy | i7-3770k 4.6Ghz | EVGA GTX 680 SC Signature+ SLI | ASUS Maximus V Formula | G.Skill 16gb 2400 | AX850

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Jenova117 View Post
    I can assure you that achieving SC dps is entirely possible on fights. I have met or beat my SC simmed dps on current fights in ToT (Twin Consorts, Megaera, Durummu). It requires consistent play and a good understanding of pooling and managing trinket procs/cds.

    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-0c...?s=4268&e=4810

    SC simmed at : 142848.6 DPS (Gear at the time: http://shadowcraft.mmo-mumble.com/us...8gdkCupBOy4Ac=)

    This was on Twin Consorts which has moderate amounts of movement.
    you are playing 25man of course its easy for you,getting TotT all day long dont even compare 10m to 25m.
    in 10m raids you dont have all benefits from all classes like banner and and most likely a second rogue
    Last edited by Koji2k11; 2013-04-07 at 09:03 AM.
    the ultimate answer's to all rogue issues in MoP:

    -Reroll another class, who wants rougue's anyway.
    -Diablo 3 Sold 15 Million Copys
    -Haste will fix it
    -Rogue's are fine

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Koji2k11 View Post
    you are playing 25man of course its easy for you,getting TotT all day long dont even compare 10m to 25m.
    in 10m raids you dont have all benefits from all classes like banner and and most likely a second rogue
    On my alt rogue I meet my shadowcraft dps fairly often. And we're talking about 10 man pugs here.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Maelstrom51 View Post
    On my alt rogue I meet my shadowcraft dps fairly often. And we're talking about 10 man pugs here.
    SC seems to massively underestimate from what I've seen:

    165k (simc) vs. 148k (SC)

    Though, I've seen reports that the benefit of haste vs trinket procs isn't modelled well/at all, which may have something to do with it. Either way, I find simulationcraft a more accurate and descriptive representation.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Koji2k11 View Post
    you are playing 25man of course its easy for you,getting TotT all day long dont even compare 10m to 25m.
    in 10m raids you dont have all benefits from all classes like banner and and most likely a second rogue
    You can disable the buffs you don't get in 10m to see a more accurate representation in SC. I don't see a problem there.
    Dropndestroy | i7-3770k 4.6Ghz | EVGA GTX 680 SC Signature+ SLI | ASUS Maximus V Formula | G.Skill 16gb 2400 | AX850

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