So with the PTR 5.3 PvP Power changes humans become even more OP for PVP.

[Lulbalance]

i don't think they should get rid of racials..too many flavor things have bitten the dust in this game already.

To be honest they should remove the gain of pvp power on a second dps trinket. or make EMFG baseline for everyone and have trinkets award more pvp power and pvp resil that way.

those arent bad ideas imo, esp the first one.. but i dont see it happening.

anyways, get your reroll on.

[Machomaije]

They shouldnt remove racials but they should try to balance it a bit more, its really sad for some classes like my beloved druid who can only be 4 races, and only 1 of them have a decent racial ability.

Tbh Blizzard should either replace Human racial with something else, or they should give every race a baseline Every Man for Himself and delete the medallion from the game. Only way to balance it

[Baracuda]

i don't think they should get rid of racials..too many flavor things have bitten the dust in this game already.



those arent bad ideas imo, esp the first one.. but i dont see it happening.

anyways, get your reroll on.

And if pvp power was unique to 1 trinket then wouldn't that make PvE trinkets BiS for the second slot?

I think they should remove all passive and non-passive direct damage increasing racials and change some interesting non-damage passives to active skills for the races that had their active damage racial removed. Who's gonna cry because they lost their 1% haste? 1% less shadow dmg taken isn't probably won't cause people to reroll to that race so I think defensives are OK.

[Dristereau]

Are people still complaining about EmfH? Not like Horde doesn't have useful racials (Will of the Forsaken, Hardiness, Blood Fury, War Stomp). Most PVPers have gone Horde due to racials as it is, and based on EU que times there's much more Horde PVPers than Alliance (Practically instant Alliance ques, Horde have 5 mins average). Also Vanguards, Reckful and Venruki all went Horde due to racials being better for Orc and Undead.

Also no point making PVP Trinkets Unique, already hearing things that 522 Valor Trinkets are better for PVP atm.

[Machomaije]

Are people still complaining about EmfH? Not like Horde doesn't have useful racials (Will of the Forsaken, Hardiness, Blood Fury, War Stomp). Most PVPers have gone Horde due to racials as it is, and based on EU que times there's much more Horde PVPers than Alliance (Practically instant Alliance ques, Horde have 5 mins average). Also Vanguards, Reckful and Venruki all went Horde due to racials being better for Orc and Undead.

Also no point making PVP Trinkets Unique, already hearing things that 522 Valor Trinkets are better for PVP atm.

Lol@ comparing WotF with EmfH, thats like comparing a Fiat with a Ferrari. Also, war stomp is pretty damn useless. Nothing is even near EmfH, and you know it

[Deleted]

Humans have always been ridiculous later in the expac.
This time they just reach the relative state of power of an expacs last season towering highly above all other races earlier than normal. It's kind of hard to imagine how silly things will even be in S14.

---------- Post added 2013-04-06 at 06:16 PM ----------

Are people still complaining about EmfH? Not like Horde doesn't have useful racials (Will of the Forsaken, Hardiness, Blood Fury, War Stomp). Most PVPers have gone Horde due to racials as it is, and based on EU que times there's much more Horde PVPers than Alliance (Practically instant Alliance ques, Horde have 5 mins average). Also Vanguards, Reckful and Venruki all went Horde due to racials being better for Orc and Undead.

Also no point making PVP Trinkets Unique, already hearing things that 522 Valor Trinkets are better for PVP atm.

horde does have useful racials.

But emfh is a true game changer. It always works against all comps guaranteed no matter what. The amount of additional pressure an all-human team can put out is entirely incomparable to anything else, nothing comes even remotely close, especially in the current state of the game where uncounterabe instant CC and burst is what wins games.

Comparing "good" pvp racials like wotf with "godlike" pvp racials like emfh makes no sense.

emfh is equivalent to old wotf with immunity included.

No competent pvper would object to giving up wotf and taking emfh instead.

By the way before MoP all the best PvP players were alliance because of PvE trinkets. Some top players changed for their own reasons, the sheep followed that's how it always goes. Top players will migrate back to alliance before this expac is done for certain.

Racials are a great business for Blizzard thanks to race/faction change. But they are harmful to the games integrity and should just be removed. Let people play what they like aesthetically. You might even get to see something else other than humans orcs and undead(+druids) in arena once in a while.

[Schwert]

I really wish they'd just change it to something else entirely.

This is getting old.

[Millie]

Funny that the overpowered Human racial is so OP that nearly every main Human player has changed to Orc for the last 2 official, and last 3 fan run tournaments.

---------- Post added 2013-04-06 at 01:57 PM ----------

Humans get ~5% more pvp power than everyone else because they don't have to use a pvp trinket which frees you from slows and stuff, so they can use a pure damage PvP trinket instead. PvP power will increase healing even more next patch and affect everyone.

I assume you mean the fact that Humans can carry 2 1400 PvP Power trinkets while the other races carry the 400 PvP power freedom trinket?

If Blizzard is dead set against changing EMFH, another solution could be to just offer a Freedom trinket with 1400 PvP power instead of the Secondary Stat/400 Power combo it currently has.

It's not perfect, but it's a better solution than none.

---------- Post added 2013-04-06 at 01:59 PM ----------

Lol@ comparing WotF with EmfH, thats like comparing a Fiat with a Ferrari. Also, war stomp is pretty damn useless. Nothing is even near EmfH, and you know it

As with the rest of his post that you ignored. Tournament players are switching to Horde for their racials, despite you thinking EMFH is the best. Funny how all the 1600 Heroes seem to think EMFH is the end all, yet every actual high end PvP player is going the opposite direction.

[Miko]

What makes you think that a handful of rank 1 playes know more then anyone else, also whats good for a fan run turny isn't good for EVERY pvp setting. IF the freedom trinket had 1400 pvp power on it, no one would roll human. IMO EMFH should be baseline and no Racial should give you a dmg boost.

[loki504]

You will get even more from PvP power in 5.3, the healing boost is increased and it applies to everyone, so humans who already had an advantage by having the most PvP power will not only have more damage but more healing too.

Didn't get an answer from Holinka on twitter. I think they need to fix this thing soon, I hate only seeing humans in PvP and I'd rather play a dwarf/gnome/night elf but feel forced to play Human :/ I don't know what to do with horde racials though. Maybe move the focus from blood fury to hardiness(so like 40% stun reduction when activated) and remove blood fury, and maybe rename it blood fury for nostalgia sake. Also remove the dmg thing from undeads and do similiar changes to every race and only allow defensive cooldowns for the non-passive racials.

yea i know kinda messed up my post. i know pvp will be worth more then it is now for healer. but he is talking about 1k extra pvp power. but it is not "extra" because you can alrdy get them. and all this will do is let healer get more healing while using pvp power. so pve items will not take the upper hand for healers. same reason why they gave the pvp trinkets a stam boost.

---------- Post added 2013-04-06 at 06:59 PM ----------

Funny that the overpowered Human racial is so OP that nearly every main Human player has changed to Orc for the last 2 official, and last 3 fan run tournaments.

---------- Post added 2013-04-06 at 01:57 PM ----------



I assume you mean the fact that Humans can carry 2 1400 PvP Power trinkets while the other races carry the 400 PvP power freedom trinket?

If Blizzard is dead set against changing EMFH, another solution could be to just offer a Freedom trinket with 1400 PvP power instead of the Secondary Stat/400 Power combo it currently has.

It's not perfect, but it's a better solution than none.

---------- Post added 2013-04-06 at 01:59 PM ----------



As with the rest of his post that you ignored. Tournament players are switching to Horde for their racials, despite you thinking EMFH is the best. Funny how all the 1600 Heroes seem to think EMFH is the end all, yet every actual high end PvP player is going the opposite direction.

yep. 5% extra pvp power is nice for random bg where static dps matters somewhat. but a well placed silence can win a battle. or a rocket jump and los a choasbolt is worth far more then a extra bit of static damage

[Baracuda]

What makes you think that a handful of rank 1 playes know more then anyone else, also whats good for a fan run turny isn't good for EVERY pvp setting. IF the freedom trinket had 1400 pvp power on it, no one would roll human. IMO EMFH should be baseline and no Racial should give you a dmg boost.

As I said

@Millie it's 1515 and 363, not 1400 and 400

[Revolutions]

They're also increasing battle fatigue from 30% to 50% healing/absorb reduction.

Lets take a 100k heal before battle fatigue and pvp power, with the person having 50% pvp power (hybrid)

Currently that 100k heal (with 30% battle fatigue)would be calculated as: (100*0.7)*(50*0.25)=78.75

In 5.3 (with 50% battle fatigue) that 100k would be calculated as: (100*0.5)*(50*0.75)=68.75
Even with 60% pvp power, you'll end up healing more in 5.2 than in 5.3.

So in 5.3 hybrid healing would be less than it is now.

This is of course if my calculations are right. My math skills aren't that great

currently its a 100% increase for PvP power on healers and 75% on hybrids

[Flaks]

Just remove all racials and make it cosmetic only. human racial and all the orc racials are overpowered in pvp.
plus horde has the best pve racials which is why ever serious raider is horde for the world firsts, it's getting old :/

Unless you're vying for rank 1 or world first, racials don't matter worth crap.

But that doesn't change the fact that the human racial right now NEEDS to be changed. Not because it's op but because Every Man for Himself should be baseline for ALL classes. And this would do humans the great service of leaving an open racial slot for a potential pve upgrade.

[Nicola]

Are people still complaining about EmfH? Not like Horde doesn't have useful racials (Will of the Forsaken, Hardiness, Blood Fury, War Stomp). Most PVPers have gone Horde due to racials as it is, and based on EU que times there's much more Horde PVPers than Alliance (Practically instant Alliance ques, Horde have 5 mins average). Also Vanguards, Reckful and Venruki all went Horde due to racials being better for Orc and Undead.

Also no point making PVP Trinkets Unique, already hearing things that 522 Valor Trinkets are better for PVP atm.

Just going to point this out, but the main reason so many people roll orc is for the stun reduction. In 5.0 and 5.1 it felt like a requirement to survive frost mages. Now with rogues and frost mages at the top, it's still an amazing racial.

[Sengiratolom]

If i undestand correctly, you mean to say that you would be able to pick any racial ? That would be nice actually, then blizz really will realize how crappy some of the racials are, seeing that most likely some racials would never or barely be chosen.

That would defeat the purpose of racial, but it does not matter, just rename it. I would in this case get rid of EMFH, otherwise any pvp player would pick this one, or get rid of pvp trinket.

Yes i ment that all the current racials would be taken away from the races themselves and be turned into a talent like system from which they can pick 1 trait per tier, making the race choice cosmetic and truely a individual choice.

[Mican17]

Funny that the overpowered Human racial is so OP that nearly every main Human player has changed to Orc for the last 2 official, and last 3 fan run tournaments.

Hmmm I wonder why this is?

Orc racial is just as if not more OP, underlooked by the noobs, and well-noticed by the pros.

[Nicola]

Hmmm I wonder why this is?

Orc racial is just as if not more OP, underlooked by the noobs, and well-noticed by the pros.

Really, the racial is not that OP. If it wasn't for fmages being ridiculous since the begin of MoP, we would be seeing a lot less players rolling orc.

[Mican17]

Really, the racial is not that OP. If it wasn't for fmages being ridiculous since the begin of MoP, we would be seeing a lot less players rolling orc.

Where's your evidence for this?

[Torais]

If Blizz remove or nerf Every Man for Himself, then everyone will go Horde and there will be no Alliance left.

What are you basing that on exactly? The only racials we have that are any practical use in PvP these days are Arcane Torrent and WotF. Neither of which even hold a candle to a free bloody trinket slot. If anything, I would expect people riding the OP racial train to switch to Worgen or Gnome.

I should also point out that your own logic is incriminating. If the power of EMFH is the only thing holding some massive amount of players to stay with the Alliance, you are practically admitting it is overpowered.

It's ironic how the tables have turned since vanilla WoW when the Horde had all the best PVP racials. But anyone who thinks the Horde racials are bad now couldn't be more wrong.

Completely irrelevant in this period of the game. Trying to excuse EMFH because WotF was overpowered in Vanilla is foolish. When you also consider Vanilla was wildly unbalanced and some DPS specs literally did double the damage of others, your argument looks even more silly. You are comparing apples to moon rocks in an attempt to divert focus from the current issue.

[Nicola]

Where's your evidence for this?

Hmm let me see, mages could solo pretty much anyone from 80-0 in a single deep with a shatter + bomb combo. The stun reduction allowed you to get out of the deep before the bomb landed.
In cases you didn't get out of the deep in time and the bomb landed, stuff like this happens: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZknKn0nJd4Q&t=26m0s