1. #1

    Do I HAVE to exp/hit cap for normal mode raid tanking?

    Keep in mind I won't be doing heroic tot anytime soon, just normal tot and t14 heroics. Would it seriously hurt me that much to just use the mastery > parry/dodge > hit/exp build? Icyveins says both that and and the hit/exp cap > Mastery > parry/dodge builds are viable. But every prot warrior on forums seems to take the view that you MUST hit/exp cap or you'll totally suck and not doing so is as bad as gemming for straight stamina. Would it really hurt me that much to ignore hit/exp ?

    My reasoning is I hate having to stack DPS stats as a tank. And it seems all tanks these days do. Most DKs do hit/exp>mastery>other, most prot pallies IIRC do hit/exp>mastery>haste>other, bears do hit/exp>crit>haste I think, monks do hit/exp>agi>mastery

    If it really is that bad for warriors which tanking class could most easily get away with ignoring DPS stats in favor of mastery/avoidance stats? I understand it won't be optimal, but which would hurt me the least?

  2. #2
    Because if you miss/parried/dodged, you don't generate rage. You don't generate rage, you can't use Shield Block/Barrier.

    Hit/Exp are not DPS stats, they are active mitigation stats.

    That being said, if you don't have 7.5% hit and 15% expertise, you won't suddenly implode 5 seconds after the pull, but will your overall rage generation, and therefor, active mitigation be worse than one that caps? Yes.

  3. #3
    Like Deathgoose said, they are mitigation stats.

    With both caps, you have a solid rage gain, allowing you to keep up Shield Block almost full time (or pump out Barriers on magic fights). In my opinion it's definitely better than not having them capped.

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  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Marty1911 View Post
    Like Deathgoose said, they are mitigation stats.

    With both caps, you have a solid rage gain, allowing you to keep up Shield Block almost full time (or pump out Barriers on magic fights). In my opinion it's definitely better than not having them capped.
    I didn't ask which was better. I'm well aware that hit/exp capping is better. My question was how much am I gimping myself by not doing so , especially considering I'll only be doing normal modes.

  5. #5
    Herald of the Titans Darkfriend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Genooo View Post
    I didn't ask which was better. I'm well aware that hit/exp capping is better. My question was how much am I gimping myself by not doing so , especially considering I'll only be doing normal modes.
    Do you want a percentage? Because that's going to change fight by fight. My question is if you know its better, why not just do it?

  6. #6
    You're basically "gimping" yourself enough to make it worth going for caps.

  7. #7
    Theck did an analysis of this here: http://www.sacredduty.net/2013/01/15...at-priorities/

    It's not that you are "gimping" yourself. Hit and Expertise basically help you to "smooth" your damage spikes out (since these are most often what lead to tank death or healers having a heart attack). This of course relies on you to properly execute your rage gen rotation and know how to spend the rage and when.

    The stat priority you list is perfectly viable for normal mode raiding if you meet the gear level (primarily stam and a certain amount of passive avoidance/damage reduction). However, you will experience damage spikes much more frequently.

    So it's really up to you which way to go. Most tanks (and raids) prefer to not get into zones where the tank can die due to unpredictable damage spikes, so hit & exp capping make sense. If you were to not execute your rotation very well (poor rage gen) or spend it poorly (spamming SB on magic damage, using heroic strike without procs), then the avoidance builds would be better. But I'd recommend fixing the L2P issue if possible before deciding to gear into avoidance over hit/exp.
    Last edited by jason1975; 2013-04-11 at 08:06 PM.

  8. #8
    Herald of the Titans crakerjack's Avatar
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    And this is why I don't raid... for this very reason. I can't recall how many times I'd be in a guild raid and someone would be unprepared and not fully know their class... you want to know what happens when you're not hit/exp cap'd? You miss important attacks that would generate a lot of threat for you, every time a boss dodges your attack, it immediately attacks you without interrupting its attack speed... so if the boss attacks every 2 seconds... he can potentially land 2 attacks in under a second just because you failed to be exp cap'd. It's the little things like this that horrid raiders think they go live without... then when it comes to thinking about what's going wrong and why we're not downing the boss... the bad tank will say he's doing everything right without realizing how much he's screwing the raid over because healers have to focus more on the tank and less on raids heals since he's taking way more damage.

    W/e, there are bad players in PvE... sorry you don't want to be better and figure this out... Why am I being hostile and not helpful? Because your title of the thread asks do you NEED... well you're putting more strain on your raid than you realize. You're the problem, either figure out how to play your class or leave the guild and save those people headaches.
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  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Genooo View Post
    But every prot warrior on forums seems to take the view that you MUST hit/exp cap or you'll totally suck and not doing so is as bad as gemming for straight stamina.
    Honestly, there is nothing "wrong" with gemming straight stamina unless you are sacrificing so much avoidance or rage generation from socket bonuses that your healers are going OOM. Frankly, if you're undergeared for content, I'd strongly recommend that every gem be at least a split stam/XX gem.

  10. #10
    I find being able to have a constant 30% melee damage reduction is better than having the extra HP.
    And when its magic/spike damage the more frequent shield barriers are also more effective than the extra HP.

    I also find that I'm doing a rather significant amount of dps, so the hit/exp are getting faster boss kills.

    Overall, I think you're gimping yourself a lot, although its not going to make the content impossible.


    Hit/Exp aren't dps stats. They might have been during Cata, but before then they've always had a role to play with tanks - normally missing taunts. They're simply melee stats.
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  11. #11
    The question is, why would you intentionally gimp yourself when the math is right there in front of you? You can run whatever setup you want, but if you don't cap those stats you'll be squishier than you have to be, simple fact.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by crakerjack View Post
    And this is why I don't raid... for this very reason. I can't recall how many times I'd be in a guild raid and someone would be unprepared and not fully know their class... you want to know what happens when you're not hit/exp cap'd? You miss important attacks that would generate a lot of threat for you, every time a boss dodges your attack, it immediately attacks you without interrupting its attack speed... so if the boss attacks every 2 seconds... he can potentially land 2 attacks in under a second just because you failed to be exp cap'd. It's the little things like this that horrid raiders think they go live without... then when it comes to thinking about what's going wrong and why we're not downing the boss... the bad tank will say he's doing everything right without realizing how much he's screwing the raid over because healers have to focus more on the tank and less on raids heals since he's taking way more damage.

    W/e, there are bad players in PvE... sorry you don't want to be better and figure this out... Why am I being hostile and not helpful? Because your title of the thread asks do you NEED... well you're putting more strain on your raid than you realize. You're the problem, either figure out how to play your class or leave the guild and save those people headaches.
    Nice rant. Too bad bosses dodging attacks has never made them attack faster. Parrying used to do that. But it doesn't anymore.

    Next time you talk about people not knowing their stuff, you might want to make sure that you do.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by crakerjack View Post
    And this is why I don't raid... for this very reason. I can't recall how many times I'd be in a guild raid and someone would be unprepared and not fully know their class...
    Quote Originally Posted by crakerjack View Post
    every time a boss dodges your attack, it immediately attacks you without interrupting its attack speed... so if the boss attacks every 2 seconds... he can potentially land 2 attacks in under a second just because you failed to be exp cap'd.
    It sounds like you are referring to parry-haste, which hasn't been in the game in like three years. ICC had parry-haste disabled for pretty much all of the bosses. Cata didn't have parry-haste at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by crakerjack View Post
    Why am I being hostile and not helpful?
    Well, at least something you posted was correct. You are being hostile, and you were not helpful at all. (Giving incorrect information is kind of the definition of not helpful.)
    Last edited by Porcell; 2013-04-12 at 12:55 PM.

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