Next Expantion: All races can be any class.

[Shefu]

Monkiy: You know what you're saying it's just your OPINION and thoughts right? You act as if you hold the absolute truth when it comes to WoW Lore development. Anything that is now in game can be changed. Lore has CHANGED since Warcraft I. It's called evolution, if things would stay the same they would become boring. Time and time again people like you have said: OH Blizz would never alow this or that, yet they have. Faction change, race change, flying in Azeroth, Warlocks getting demon form (demon hunter staple ability), elves to Horde, savage race to the Alliance, Troll Warlocks, NIGHT ELF MAGES (I bet you were one of those people that would have sworn this would never happen, oh wait here ya go bro). Point is, Blizz can do w/e the hell they want it's their game, they don't care what u think that is "right" or not about the Lore, or how it should be. As I said before you have no vision whatsoever. All I did in my post was to point out how all races could in fact be all classes. Not everything has to make sense, it's a VIDEO GAME for God's sake, a FANTASY world. Why can't u get this through your thick skull? Let people speculate and share there ideas without you raining on everyone's parade. Go do some dailies or something, it's not your thread, or your game, or just your thinking.

[Saffa]

I would like to see some more options for the classes that are limited. Everyone can already be warriors. Not everyone has to be everything, though I would love to see more options for Druids, Shamans and Paladins for both sides. Give everyone 9-10 class options? The one missing class would be the one most damaging to lore. (ie. Forsaken Druids, Dreanei Warlocks, Orc Paladins.)

There would be plenty who would complain about exceptions, who would not see anything wrong about Forsaken Druids for example. I personally would love a Panda DK but it does not fit in Lore at all. /sigh

[Monkiy]

Right -- the boundaries of lore for race/class are mostly about racial culture, politics, ideology. But even in that context, we see implicit divisions and outsider status in the races lorewise. At one point, the Farstriders would have been the best example, but I think now the Highborne returning to the Night Elves would be. 10,000 years of cultural rejection of arcane magic, but apparently not so much that they can't readmit them to their society. Likewise, humans having warlocks in their midst despite the pretty serious negative history Stormwind has had with warlocks in the past.

Really, after any argument someone wants to make about genuine, intrinsic incompatibility between race/class (I'm talking about arguments of literal impossibility, like the Undead-Paladins-would-'splode argument, or there were no Pandaren around for Arthas to turn), the only ones that can justify a mechanical restriction in the game are those cultural ones that are so strong, so absolute, that it stops being believable that the player character would even be permitted to interact with their own race's NPC. Best example would be Dranei/Eredar Warlock. Pretty hard to go defend Velen (ha!) if the city guards should want to kill your character.

But most combinations don't have some major hurdle like that.

I agree with most of the point you're making, but of the race/class combinations left I'd say that the majority do encounter those hurdles. We're constantly discovering more and more Loa, so I the suppose the possibility exists that one will grant the Tolls Paladin-esque abilities at some point. Gnomes already know and work with the Light, so what's stopping them from accepting it on a higher level to become a Paladin?

Aside from these, the rest run into either a hatred of the class' ideals, some physical impossibility, or having to abandon the racial identity to attain the class values. Those are difficult to overcome.

[Spichora]

No way it will happen. It goes against all of Warcraft lore. It would be total disaster to see Gnome Boomkin of 3 feet dpsing with Troll paladin in raid and the orc/blood elf druid is tanking. How about We-believe-in-Light-and-Food Pandarens? Or Hoofed-Rogue Dreanei? Great ! Warlock Night elf - good good ! -_-

[AseyBL]

i hope they will never do it

[Mormolyce]

Forsaken Druids are obviously impossible. Plants and zombies don't mix!

Anyway, didn't you ever play Grim Fandango?

[Kreek]

Monkiy: You know what you're saying it's just your OPINION and thoughts right? You act as if you hold the absolute truth when it comes to WoW Lore development. Anything that is now in game can be changed. Lore has CHANGED since Warcraft I. It's called evolution, if things would stay the same they would become boring. Time and time again people like you have said: OH Blizz would never alow this or that, yet they have. Faction change, race change, flying in Azeroth, Warlocks getting demon form (demon hunter staple ability), elves to Horde, savage race to the Alliance, Troll Warlocks, NIGHT ELF MAGES (I bet you were one of those people that would have sworn this would never happen, oh wait here ya go bro). Point is, Blizz can do w/e the hell they want it's their game, they don't care what u think that is "right" or not about the Lore, or how it should be. As I said before you have no vision whatsoever. All I did in my post was to point out how all races could in fact be all classes. Not everything has to make sense, it's a VIDEO GAME for God's sake, a FANTASY world. Why can't u get this through your thick skull? Let people speculate and share there ideas without you raining on everyone's parade. Go do some dailies or something, it's not your thread, or your game, or just your thinking.

The stupidity is strong with this one...

Anything that is now in game can be changed. Lore has CHANGED since Warcraft I. - Yes some things have been changed, however changing something already set in stone is called a retcon, and you can't just do that whenever you feel like it. For example: Deathwing died in Cataclysm, they couldn't come back and say we never defeated him in Cataclysm because we did. You saw it, we saw it, it's in the game. Another example: The elder wand coming back in another Harry Potter movie, CAN'T because it was destroyed in the last one. Same thing applies here with lore.

Faction change, race change, flying in Azeroth, Warlocks getting demon form (demon hunter staple ability), elves to Horde, savage race to the Alliance, Troll Warlocks, NIGHT ELF MAGES (I bet you were one of those people that would have sworn this would never happen, oh wait here ya go bro). - Faction changes, race changes, flying in Azeroth, etc, has NOTHING to do with lore whatsoever. Doesn't apply here or help your argument at all. Also shows you know nothing about how stories and lore work.

Point is, Blizz can do w/e the hell they want it's their game, they don't care what u think that is "right" or not about the Lore, or how it should be. As I said before you have no vision whatsoever. - Yeah they can, with FUTURE lore. They can't change previous stories that have already been told. It's like trying to move a brick wall once it has been laid, you can't. It isn't what "he" thinks is right, it's what is already set in stone.

it's a VIDEO GAME for God's sake, a FANTASY world. - Doesn't change anything. For instance they couldn't kill of Tony Stark in Iron Man 3 then have him come back in Iron Man 4. There would be massive outrage and it wouldn't sell good. Same thing here my friend. Can't change already told stories.

Keep your posts civil

[Shefu]

The stupidity is strong with this one...

Anything that is now in game can be changed. Lore has CHANGED since Warcraft I. - Yes some things have been changed, however changing something already set in stone is called a retcon, and you can't just do that whenever you feel like it. For example: Deathwing died in Cataclysm, they couldn't come back and say we never defeated him in Cataclysm because we did. You saw it, we saw it, it's in the game. Another example: The elder wand coming back in another Harry Potter movie, CAN'T because it was destroyed in the last one. Same thing applies here with lore.

Faction change, race change, flying in Azeroth, Warlocks getting demon form (demon hunter staple ability), elves to Horde, savage race to the Alliance, Troll Warlocks, NIGHT ELF MAGES (I bet you were one of those people that would have sworn this would never happen, oh wait here ya go bro). - Faction changes, race changes, flying in Azeroth, etc, has NOTHING to do with lore whatsoever. Doesn't apply here or help your argument at all. Also shows you know nothing about how stories and lore work.

Point is, Blizz can do w/e the hell they want it's their game, they don't care what u think that is "right" or not about the Lore, or how it should be. As I said before you have no vision whatsoever. - Yeah they can, with FUTURE lore. They can't change previous stories that have already been told. It's like trying to move a brick wall once it has been laid, you can't. It isn't what "he" thinks is right, it's what is already set in stone.

it's a VIDEO GAME for God's sake, a FANTASY world. - Doesn't change anything. For instance they couldn't kill of Tony Stark in Iron Man 3 then have him come back in Iron Man 4. There would be massive outrage and it wouldn't sell good. Same thing here my friend. Can't change already told stories.

It's ok, people like you just don't get it. I wasted enough time already.

[Monkiy]

Monkiy: You know what you're saying it's just your OPINION and thoughts right? You act as if you hold the absolute truth when it comes to WoW Lore development. Anything that is now in game can be changed. Lore has CHANGED since Warcraft I. It's called evolution, if things would stay the same they would become boring. Time and time again people like you have said: OH Blizz would never alow this or that, yet they have. Faction change, race change, flying in Azeroth, Warlocks getting demon form (demon hunter staple ability), elves to Horde, savage race to the Alliance, Troll Warlocks, NIGHT ELF MAGES (I bet you were one of those people that would have sworn this would never happen, oh wait here ya go bro). Point is, Blizz can do w/e the hell they want it's their game, they don't care what u think that is "right" or not about the Lore, or how it should be. As I said before you have no vision whatsoever. All I did in my post was to point out how all races could in fact be all classes. Not everything has to make sense, it's a VIDEO GAME for God's sake, a FANTASY world. Why can't u get this through your thick skull? Let people speculate and share there ideas without you raining on everyone's parade. Go do some dailies or something, it's not your thread, or your game, or just your thinking.

If not everything has to make sense, then we should just let Garrosh and Varrian shake hands, kiss, make up, and end the war between the Horde and Alliance.

Behavior has to make sense and be consistent. If it weren't, then we would have no identity or basis for anything. Everything would just be a chaotic mess of countless, pointless acts that don't connect to each other. Boredom wouldn't be an issue, because there wouldn't be anything to invest yourself in to begin with. Is that really what you're looking for?

Speculation is only as good as the reasoning behind it. If there is evidence to discredit it, then it isn't very good speculation. If there is supporting evidence, the idea has a chance. If there isn't any evidence either way, have at it; obviously nothing is stopping you.

It's not even worth addressing the number of irrelevant things that you listed about game-play that have nothing to do with the lore. Straw man arguments are bad, or haven't you heard?

I don't lack vision, you lack critical thinking. You may want to get that through your own thick skull. I suggest you use a hammer.

[Sinister Knight]

Ran into this going backwards through the pages. Allow me to tackle each of your "discredits":

I see you neglected to back most of that up. So in turn, I'll discredit most of it for you.

Draenei -

Druids are tuned to the nature of Azeroth. Guess where the draenei are from.
Rogues have a physical obstacle.
Warlocks are directly contradicted by the draenei's origins.

Planet of origin doesn't matter. You assume every Draenei PC was born on another world. What about the ones that were born on Azeroth then? Druids are taught by other Druids to utilize the powers of the earth and nature. This would not in any way deny a race from learning how to harness those powers.
Rogues have a physical obstacle: Why? Night elf males are 7' on average; Worgen males 6'7" on average. Draenei males are about identical in height to Orcs. Orc males are extremely muscular. Size has very little bearing on whether you can be a good rogue. Logic fails here. Rogues rely on Agility. So do Hunters (which Draenei/Tauren can be) and Enhancement Shaman (also which Draenei/Tauren can be). Oh, and Monks too. There are also several pirate npcs that are Tauren, as I recall. Though not strictly Rogues, pirates have many similar qualities inherent to the Rogue mindset. Here's a quote from the WoWwiki about "limitations": Tauren and draenei are the only races that do not have rogues because they believe that the methods of the rogues are "dishonorable," and it is difficult to be stealthy when you have hooves (though this does not appear to be an issue for satyrs). How is being stealthy and ambushing someone as a Rogue different than as a hidden Druid? That doesn't seem honorable either, yet they have no qualms about that. As for hooves...there's this little invention called padded moccasins. The honor part? Draenei can be Hunters, and they're not always the most "honorable" fighters...Misdirect, Feign Death, Camouflage, etc etc. Also, they can be Shadow Priests, that utilizes nasty DoTs that drain life or mana, and can Mind Control. Honor is a failed argument here as well. As for Stealth, well, it's clearly more than simply "knowing how to hide". There is a mystical element to it, to which again, size should not factor into at all.

Warlocks is about the only one I can agree with; however, as stated by others, if a Draenei can accept remaining as a Death Knight instead of just killing himself once free of the LK's influence, I can't see why certain young, impressionable Draenei couldn't be lured by the power of the Warlocks. A Draenei could justify his actions by the fact that he is controlling the demons, making them serve the greater good. A Warlock is just one step from a mage or shaman, which Draenei can be. It's really not that far a stretch.

Dwarves -

Druids simply don't fit into the identity of an industrial dwarf. Dwarves aren't all that concerned with preserving nature, and their Shaman simply work with it.

Invalid argument. Gross generalization about all Dwarves. Not all are "industrial". What if I made one that was an Herbalist/Alchemist? Hunters have to be in tune with their pets. Shaman must be in tune with the elements of the planet. If Dwarves can learn to harness Arcane, Fel, Light, Shadow, and Elemental energies, there's no real reason they can't be taught to harness Nature energies. They originated from the very Earth itself as Earthen. If anything they're closer to the earth than many other races that CAN be Druids.

Gnomes -

Druids would run into the same issue here as with dwarves, and it would even extend to Shaman in the gnome's case. They don't care for nature in the least.

A gnome Hunter would just be illogical with average pets being twice the size of their owner. The ability to control your pet just wouldn't be there.

The idea of a gnome Paladin could be backed, as they can be both Warriors and Priests, showing that they (somehow) have the physical prowess and connection to the Light. I personally still find the physical side of Warrior gnomes to be a bit outlandish, but it's there.

Gnomish Druids seem fairly illogical, due to their severe dependence/interest in technology. But there are exceptions to every rule, otherwise they'd all be Engineer/Miners and Mages. :P

Your argument about Gnome Hunters is refuted by the fact that Goblins somehow can be. Size is irrelevant. Training is relevant. Not to mention they could if needed build collars to help control their pets, or some other device.

Human -

Humans don't have an affinity for nature, or the culture in either the sense of a Druid or a Shaman. Your Worgen argument is flawed, as it took the worgen curse for any Gilneans to truly become a Druid.

Humans are arguably the most versatile of Races in any RPG. Not having an affinity for something is a weak argument at best. Humans can be Warriors, relying on Rage and brute strength, or Mages, relying on keen intellect and concentration. Humans are among the most resilient and passionate of all the races; something that should be to their benefit in handling the skill and determination needed to become a Druid, or any class. Humans have learned how to become Hunters, which entails being "deeply in tune with nature" (directly from WoWwiki-Hunters), so it would not be more than one more step for them to learn how to harness the powers of the Druids. Also, Goblin Shaman. Let's talk affinity or culture, and explain that one away.

Night Elves -

Warlocks. Lol. Night elves despise demons, and those that ever dabbled in the demonic arts became outcasts and saytr.

Night elves have long worshiped Elune, and for them to suddenly shift and worship the elements to become Shaman would be bizarre.

The "Light" that the night elves pull form is Elune, and it's far from the same Light that the Church worships or the Naruu based power of the draenei and blood elf Paladins.

Warlocks: Warlocks are former arcanists. Night Elves had mages in the past; it is no big stretch that some offshoot of the arcane Elves could have found a way to balance the power of fel energy to avoid becoming Satyrs. Not to mention merely using fel power wasn't enough to turn a NE into a Satyr, it took direct demonic intervention to do so.

Worgen -

Shamanism is very different from druidism. Humans have never had a shamanistic connection to the world. They barely held onto that druidic connection that the worgen curse amplified.

To be filled with the Light in the way Paladins are would interact badly with the worgen curse.

Worgen are trapped in time. They are from a very specific event, at a very specific time. Monks were not discovered until after that event. That isn't so say that a worgen couldn't abandon their current practice and learn the ways of a monk, but as far as game mechanics go this is an impossibility.

Shamans were more a gameplay issue than a lore issue: They were the Horde counterpoint to Paladins. Since that is no longer an issue, the argument doesn't really hold up anymore. Also, Draenei can be shaman. Draenei aren't even a part of Azeroth, and rely heavily on technology. If that race can someone find the "connection" to the world (that isn't even theirs) to harness the elements, why would it be any different from Humans or Worgen?

The Light may certainly interact badly with the curse, but not as much for the PC Worgen that learned to control the beast, use it, rather than merely be subject to its whims. To say it would interact badly would be to say if a Paladin used Lay on Hands on a Worgen, they'd explode. But they don't, clearly, due to game mechanics. So we have to accept that clearly the Light doesn't intrinsically harm Worgen, otherwise only Nature healing would work on them. It is a weak argument against Worgen Paladins.

Monks: You use game mechanics as your argument here. That's bad form, given the main issue is lore. I feel the reason they can learn to become Druids is just as easy a reason for them to learn to become Monks. An adventurous Monk scaled the Greymane wall (no difficult feat for a skilled Monk) and taught those of the fledgeling Worgen how to become such.

Blood Elves -

The Naruu and the Light have nothing to do with druidism and shamanism. Though there is lore to back blood elven Druids.

There is no discrediting here. You're put forth no argument that they can't be Shaman. If the Light from Mu'ru can accept them, then the forces of the earth could do so as well. They are masters of the arcane; surely they could apply the same dedication to learning to harness the elements. Same with Druidic practices; they are elves after all, and as you said there is lore to back this up.

Goblins -

For the Monk class, goblin run into the same time constraint as worgen.

A goblin being a druid, while funny, would be very contradictory to the racial identity. Their shamanism is a stretch as it is because they basically hijack the elements and take them for a ride. They don't work with nature in the least, but want to control it.

Same counterargument as the Worgen. Determined, adventurous, or even lost Monks on the seas could have washed up on the shores of Kezan.
Druids, honestly can't really find a strong argument for that happening, due to their dependence on technology. But contradictory does not mean impossibility by any stretch. For all we know there could be Goblins that broke off from "society" and live in the jungles and follow the same practices as the trolls. Hell, the argument for why they can be Shaman could apply to any other race that currently can't: Clearly there needs be no harmony with the elements to become one, if Goblins can just control them. So this works against Blizzard themselves in the battle for lore vs. game mechanics.

Orcs -

Druidism requires being in tune with Azeroth's nature. The orcs aren't from Azeroth.

Paladins and Priests have the same issue, being that the orcs have no dealings with the Light.

Same counterargument as for Draenei. Being from Azeroth is not a base requirement for being a Druid, that makes no sense and I can't find anywhere in lore to back that claim up. Also, as many others have pointed out, if you can be a Druid in Outland, then why can't someone from outside become a Druid? More about training than what planet you were born on. Also, does not apply to Orcs born on Azeroth, so again the argument is invalid.

Orc have no dealing with the Light is a very weak argument. The main reasoning behind them not being Paladins goes back to the faction balance: Alliance got Paladins, Horde got Shaman. That argument has broken, as stated before. Also, if Orcs can utilize fel energies readily, why wouldn't they be able to utilize Light energy? To argue they have no dealings with the Light, you would have to argue they have no dealings with the fel. You can't have one without the other. Given how much they value Honor, that is a point in their favor toward being Paladins. Not to mention how close they are to Tauren, who can now be Paladins, it's only one step away. Orcs could easily adopt the worship of the Sun like the Tauren. Also the simple fact that if the Blood Elves can somehow bend the Light to use it, clearly one doesn't have to be "wholly good and pure" to become a Paladin. (This is a major thorn in my side, I've always hated the idea of Blood Elves "using" the Light and basically Blizzard spitting in the face of what it means to be a Paladin, according to their very own lore) But I digress.

Tauren -

Tauren despise any magic that is natural in origin, which puts out Mages and Warlocks. Not to mention how destructive Warlocks are being a complete contradiction to the racial identity.

Tauren run into the physical issue of being a Rogue.

I assume you meant isn't natural in origin. Lorewise, the rogue Grimtotem possess the rogue and sorcerer classes, so it's not entirely unfeasible that a Tauren PC could become one of these. Yes, they are deeply tied to shamanism, so I will agree that it would be difficult to justify, but I could not find anything saying that they actively despise unnatural magic. They can be priests, which utilizes Light and Shadow, not Nature, so that argument fails. Orcs are also deeply shamanistic, yet they can be Mages and Warlocks. No big stretch for their influence to spill over into the Tauren.

Rogue physical issue countered above with the Draenei. Unlikely, yes. Impossible, no. Orcs value honor moreso than perhaps any other Race, yet they can be rogues. So generations of adherence to honor clearly isn't a deterrent.

Trolls -

Their Priests come from voodoo practices and drawing upon Loa energy. There just hasn't been anything to support the idea of a troll Paladin.

Being a Paladin is more about upholding justice and good. There is no solid argument here for why Trolls couldn't learn to use the Light like Blood Elves, Tauren, or any Alliance race that can. Why couldn't the Trolls worship the Sun and use its energy like the Tauren? Blizzard opened up the can of worms with both Horde races' justifications for being Paladins; any other race can just walk through that door now.

Forsaken -

The Forsaken are a perversion of nature. To then work with it as a Druid or Shaman would be illogical.

The Light is harmful for the Forsaken. Filling their entire beings with it is suicide.

I could see them bending the power of Nature just as Blood Elves bend the power of the Light to be Paladins. Same applies to the elements and how Goblins control them with technology. More a matter of will and training than of overall belief or "attunement", as has been evidenced several times already. Another can of worms Blizzard opened up with BE Pallies and Gob Shamans. Don't blame me, blame them.

Forsaken PCs are Humanoids, not undead, for balance purposes. This is a big lore contradiction on Blizzard's part: Either they're undead or they're not, or somehow they were able to surpass the limitations of normal undead and they're something "different". You can't have it both ways. So either they're harmed by the Light, or they aren't. If Exorcism, Holy Wrath and Turn Undead aren't more effective against Forsaken, then you can't argue that one becoming a Paladin would be suicide. They could utilize the same willpower and fortitude to use the Light as Paladins as they do as Priests. Sure, it hurts them, but it's for the greater good, or out of penance for past crimes. A heavy burden they must carry, though it pains them deeply. I could easily see Leonid Barthalomew the Redeemed (Forsaken member of the Argent Dawn) becoming the first official Forsaken Paladin (the wiki doesn't actually list his class, though he wields an axe and plate armor), and starting The Order of the Redeemed to help train others of like mind to utilize the power of the Light without it incapacitating them. Blizzard themselves have stated that Holy Light can heal Forsaken but they must suffer nobly to do so. So, if they can be Priests and Warriors, there is no good, justifiable reason they can't be Paladins as well.

Conclusion: It's not a lack of vision, but a realization of limitations. Limitations can add a lot to identity. This game is story based, and to then throw that story and it's guidelines out the window would destroy the story.

If the game is story based, then a story can be written to justify everything. If it were more mechanics based, then you could find better reason for disallowing certain race/class combinations. But when you claim the story is the important thing, you open it up to vast interpretation and possibility, as I have tried to provide above. Any heretofore unavailable combination could make for an excellent story. Why are the Gnomes suddenly interested in Druidic practices? Have some of them forsworn technology, seeing it as more harmful than helpful? Have some Draenei decided that power is a means to an end, and have shrugged off what their ancestors fought against in order to wield the power of demons? Have certain Tauren realized that more can be gained by cunning and deceit than spiritualism and patience, and joined the Ravenholt with the Prince? With story, anything is possible. And in my book, more variety is better. Bring player, not the class. Or the class/race combination. If every race can be every class, then I think people would be more likely to pick the combination they like, verses the combination that's the most beneficial. Min/maxers already exist; adding more combinations isn't going to change that at all. So what's to lose? Really? Why not find justification for them all to learn everything? Because you're afraid your Class won't be a unique and beautiful snowflake anymore? That's a poor excuse, and promotes elitism.

[Exeris]

Okay, show me what logic there is in a Undead Druid. Undead by itself defiles nature.

Or a gnome warrior, I mean gnome football.

[Pendragon]

No thanks. Some of the race/class combos are already ridiculous. They should actually remove some combos. I'd love to say goodbye to Gnome/Goblin Warrior and Tauren Paladin.

[Deleted]

tauren rogue ? hmmm .... so bad T_T

[Deleted]

What i had been waiting for, were not the "everyone can be everything" expansion.
I just want blizzard to make a third faction, that would be neat.
start up one of the old things, like the Burning Crusade or the new Scourge, due to the new Lich King.

That would give us a few new classes aswell as cool creatures to play, and a cool story that could go on from where we are.

[-Superman-]

Take the idea of a Tauren to be a Mage, for example; Tauren view the Arcane magics to be destructive to the world and to go against nature, so for them to accept the class they would either have to drop their devout compassion for the Earth Mother or find a way to wield Arcane magic in a non-destructive way. If you think either of those things are likely, be my guest, but don't be disappointed if the idea doesn't come to fruition.

Night Elves did the same thing with Elune and nature magics, yet they now wield arcane powers as mages. I understand you are desparate to cling to Lore, but you are failing to see that Lore has already changed, and can absolutely change again.

[Spichora]

Night Elves did the same thing with Elune and nature magics, yet they now wield arcane powers as mages. I understand you are desparate to cling to Lore, but you are failing to see that Lore has already changed, and can absolutely change again.

Disagreed. Not absolutely. There are some borders that game will never cross. If it does it will become chaotic, non-logical game, ruin all the past and will try to forge a future for game that will be discouraging for 80% of players. Imagine All the classes you respect love and play to change from toe to very last piece of hair. If they change their beliefs, Attitude, characteristic and become All same. It cant happen. Then why we call them Night elves, Humans , Orcs, Goblins because they are different and have different skills, believes etc. Night elves are literally in love with nature how can you imagine them to become warlocks? Or Goblins, they love chopping down the trees blowing up things, can you imagine them as tranquil calm druids? No because they will more look like Night elves or Tauren troll or Worgen. And if we mix all the classes to all races they will appear to be same ! Game will become boring and dull and die in very short time!

[Monkiy]

Ran into this going backwards through the pages. Allow me to tackle each of your "discredits":



Planet of origin doesn't matter. You assume every Draenei PC was born on another world. What about the ones that were born on Azeroth then? Druids are taught by other Druids to utilize the powers of the earth and nature. This would not in any way deny a race from learning how to harness those powers.
Rogues have a physical obstacle: Why? Night elf males are 7' on average; Worgen males 6'7" on average. Draenei males are about identical in height to Orcs. Orc males are extremely muscular. Size has very little bearing on whether you can be a good rogue. Logic fails here. Rogues rely on Agility. So do Hunters (which Draenei/Tauren can be) and Enhancement Shaman (also which Draenei/Tauren can be). Oh, and Monks too. There are also several pirate npcs that are Tauren, as I recall. Though not strictly Rogues, pirates have many similar qualities inherent to the Rogue mindset. Here's a quote from the WoWwiki about "limitations": Tauren and draenei are the only races that do not have rogues because they believe that the methods of the rogues are "dishonorable," and it is difficult to be stealthy when you have hooves (though this does not appear to be an issue for satyrs). How is being stealthy and ambushing someone as a Rogue different than as a hidden Druid? That doesn't seem honorable either, yet they have no qualms about that. As for hooves...there's this little invention called padded moccasins. The honor part? Draenei can be Hunters, and they're not always the most "honorable" fighters...Misdirect, Feign Death, Camouflage, etc etc. Also, they can be Shadow Priests, that utilizes nasty DoTs that drain life or mana, and can Mind Control. Honor is a failed argument here as well. As for Stealth, well, it's clearly more than simply "knowing how to hide". There is a mystical element to it, to which again, size should not factor into at all.

Warlocks is about the only one I can agree with; however, as stated by others, if a Draenei can accept remaining as a Death Knight instead of just killing himself once free of the LK's influence, I can't see why certain young, impressionable Draenei couldn't be lured by the power of the Warlocks. A Draenei could justify his actions by the fact that he is controlling the demons, making them serve the greater good. A Warlock is just one step from a mage or shaman, which Draenei can be. It's really not that far a stretch.



Invalid argument. Gross generalization about all Dwarves. Not all are "industrial". What if I made one that was an Herbalist/Alchemist? Hunters have to be in tune with their pets. Shaman must be in tune with the elements of the planet. If Dwarves can learn to harness Arcane, Fel, Light, Shadow, and Elemental energies, there's no real reason they can't be taught to harness Nature energies. They originated from the very Earth itself as Earthen. If anything they're closer to the earth than many other races that CAN be Druids.



Gnomish Druids seem fairly illogical, due to their severe dependence/interest in technology. But there are exceptions to every rule, otherwise they'd all be Engineer/Miners and Mages. :P

Your argument about Gnome Hunters is refuted by the fact that Goblins somehow can be. Size is irrelevant. Training is relevant. Not to mention they could if needed build collars to help control their pets, or some other device.



Humans are arguably the most versatile of Races in any RPG. Not having an affinity for something is a weak argument at best. Humans can be Warriors, relying on Rage and brute strength, or Mages, relying on keen intellect and concentration. Humans are among the most resilient and passionate of all the races; something that should be to their benefit in handling the skill and determination needed to become a Druid, or any class. Humans have learned how to become Hunters, which entails being "deeply in tune with nature" (directly from WoWwiki-Hunters), so it would not be more than one more step for them to learn how to harness the powers of the Druids. Also, Goblin Shaman. Let's talk affinity or culture, and explain that one away.



Warlocks: Warlocks are former arcanists. Night Elves had mages in the past; it is no big stretch that some offshoot of the arcane Elves could have found a way to balance the power of fel energy to avoid becoming Satyrs. Not to mention merely using fel power wasn't enough to turn a NE into a Satyr, it took direct demonic intervention to do so.



Shamans were more a gameplay issue than a lore issue: They were the Horde counterpoint to Paladins. Since that is no longer an issue, the argument doesn't really hold up anymore. Also, Draenei can be shaman. Draenei aren't even a part of Azeroth, and rely heavily on technology. If that race can someone find the "connection" to the world (that isn't even theirs) to harness the elements, why would it be any different from Humans or Worgen?

The Light may certainly interact badly with the curse, but not as much for the PC Worgen that learned to control the beast, use it, rather than merely be subject to its whims. To say it would interact badly would be to say if a Paladin used Lay on Hands on a Worgen, they'd explode. But they don't, clearly, due to game mechanics. So we have to accept that clearly the Light doesn't intrinsically harm Worgen, otherwise only Nature healing would work on them. It is a weak argument against Worgen Paladins.

Monks: You use game mechanics as your argument here. That's bad form, given the main issue is lore. I feel the reason they can learn to become Druids is just as easy a reason for them to learn to become Monks. An adventurous Monk scaled the Greymane wall (no difficult feat for a skilled Monk) and taught those of the fledgeling Worgen how to become such.



There is no discrediting here. You're put forth no argument that they can't be Shaman. If the Light from Mu'ru can accept them, then the forces of the earth could do so as well. They are masters of the arcane; surely they could apply the same dedication to learning to harness the elements. Same with Druidic practices; they are elves after all, and as you said there is lore to back this up.



Same counterargument as the Worgen. Determined, adventurous, or even lost Monks on the seas could have washed up on the shores of Kezan.
Druids, honestly can't really find a strong argument for that happening, due to their dependence on technology. But contradictory does not mean impossibility by any stretch. For all we know there could be Goblins that broke off from "society" and live in the jungles and follow the same practices as the trolls. Hell, the argument for why they can be Shaman could apply to any other race that currently can't: Clearly there needs be no harmony with the elements to become one, if Goblins can just control them. So this works against Blizzard themselves in the battle for lore vs. game mechanics.



Same counterargument as for Draenei. Being from Azeroth is not a base requirement for being a Druid, that makes no sense and I can't find anywhere in lore to back that claim up. Also, as many others have pointed out, if you can be a Druid in Outland, then why can't someone from outside become a Druid? More about training than what planet you were born on. Also, does not apply to Orcs born on Azeroth, so again the argument is invalid.

Orc have no dealing with the Light is a very weak argument. The main reasoning behind them not being Paladins goes back to the faction balance: Alliance got Paladins, Horde got Shaman. That argument has broken, as stated before. Also, if Orcs can utilize fel energies readily, why wouldn't they be able to utilize Light energy? To argue they have no dealings with the Light, you would have to argue they have no dealings with the fel. You can't have one without the other. Given how much they value Honor, that is a point in their favor toward being Paladins. Not to mention how close they are to Tauren, who can now be Paladins, it's only one step away. Orcs could easily adopt the worship of the Sun like the Tauren. Also the simple fact that if the Blood Elves can somehow bend the Light to use it, clearly one doesn't have to be "wholly good and pure" to become a Paladin. (This is a major thorn in my side, I've always hated the idea of Blood Elves "using" the Light and basically Blizzard spitting in the face of what it means to be a Paladin, according to their very own lore) But I digress.



I assume you meant isn't natural in origin. Lorewise, the rogue Grimtotem possess the rogue and sorcerer classes, so it's not entirely unfeasible that a Tauren PC could become one of these. Yes, they are deeply tied to shamanism, so I will agree that it would be difficult to justify, but I could not find anything saying that they actively despise unnatural magic. They can be priests, which utilizes Light and Shadow, not Nature, so that argument fails. Orcs are also deeply shamanistic, yet they can be Mages and Warlocks. No big stretch for their influence to spill over into the Tauren.

Rogue physical issue countered above with the Draenei. Unlikely, yes. Impossible, no. Orcs value honor moreso than perhaps any other Race, yet they can be rogues. So generations of adherence to honor clearly isn't a deterrent.



Being a Paladin is more about upholding justice and good. There is no solid argument here for why Trolls couldn't learn to use the Light like Blood Elves, Tauren, or any Alliance race that can. Why couldn't the Trolls worship the Sun and use its energy like the Tauren? Blizzard opened up the can of worms with both Horde races' justifications for being Paladins; any other race can just walk through that door now.



I could see them bending the power of Nature just as Blood Elves bend the power of the Light to be Paladins. Same applies to the elements and how Goblins control them with technology. More a matter of will and training than of overall belief or "attunement", as has been evidenced several times already. Another can of worms Blizzard opened up with BE Pallies and Gob Shamans. Don't blame me, blame them.

Forsaken PCs are Humanoids, not undead, for balance purposes. This is a big lore contradiction on Blizzard's part: Either they're undead or they're not, or somehow they were able to surpass the limitations of normal undead and they're something "different". You can't have it both ways. So either they're harmed by the Light, or they aren't. If Exorcism, Holy Wrath and Turn Undead aren't more effective against Forsaken, then you can't argue that one becoming a Paladin would be suicide. They could utilize the same willpower and fortitude to use the Light as Paladins as they do as Priests. Sure, it hurts them, but it's for the greater good, or out of penance for past crimes. A heavy burden they must carry, though it pains them deeply. I could easily see Leonid Barthalomew the Redeemed (Forsaken member of the Argent Dawn) becoming the first official Forsaken Paladin (the wiki doesn't actually list his class, though he wields an axe and plate armor), and starting The Order of the Redeemed to help train others of like mind to utilize the power of the Light without it incapacitating them. Blizzard themselves have stated that Holy Light can heal Forsaken but they must suffer nobly to do so. So, if they can be Priests and Warriors, there is no good, justifiable reason they can't be Paladins as well.



If the game is story based, then a story can be written to justify everything. If it were more mechanics based, then you could find better reason for disallowing certain race/class combinations. But when you claim the story is the important thing, you open it up to vast interpretation and possibility, as I have tried to provide above. Any heretofore unavailable combination could make for an excellent story. Why are the Gnomes suddenly interested in Druidic practices? Have some of them forsworn technology, seeing it as more harmful than helpful? Have some Draenei decided that power is a means to an end, and have shrugged off what their ancestors fought against in order to wield the power of demons? Have certain Tauren realized that more can be gained by cunning and deceit than spiritualism and patience, and joined the Ravenholt with the Prince? With story, anything is possible. And in my book, more variety is better. Bring player, not the class. Or the class/race combination. If every race can be every class, then I think people would be more likely to pick the combination they like, verses the combination that's the most beneficial. Min/maxers already exist; adding more combinations isn't going to change that at all. So what's to lose? Really? Why not find justification for them all to learn everything? Because you're afraid your Class won't be a unique and beautiful snowflake anymore? That's a poor excuse, and promotes elitism.

Draenei:

Druidism was taught to both the Night Elves and the Tauren by Cenarius, the Gilneans bits of the art by Night Elves, and the Trolls mixed their Loa worship with guidance from the Tauren Druids. Until the Draenei have some god of nature to give them the power of druidism, they don't have a backing for it. Seeing as how they all exclusively worship the Naruu, I'd call the odds of that happening very unlikely. But sure, you have a small chance if you really want to cling to it.

Height itself wasn't the only thing I was referring to as a physical roadblock for the class. Night Elves may be tall, but they are extremely lithe. Not to say that the Draenei can't be relatively quick, it's nothing compared to the Night Elves. You even discredit your own idea, because like the Tauren, the Draenei despise working in the shadows and using trickery to win. They have a strong sense of honor.

To clarify something, no race fully accepts Death Knights. Lore-wise, they're very excluded and only persist because the faction leaders took them in as strong allies. Their presence still creates unease for the large majority.

Dwarves:

A similar issue to that of the Draenei: they need the power to be given to them by some god. Aside from that, Dwarves will work with nature, but they don't really work to preserve it. Being able to wield powers 1-6 doesn't necessarily mean they can automatically use power 7 as well. They may be closer to Azeroth in terms of origins than the other races, but not in culture.

Gnomes:

Even if every Gnome isn't an Engineer by trade, their culture is heavily based on mechanical engineering. They interact with it all day, every day. They just don't care about nature when there's a new creation to be had. The Gnomes frequently bicker with the Night Elves over the pollution they cause.

I'll give you that they probably have a way that they could technologically control a pet (or maybe they'll just create their own pet), but their culture still just has no vested interest in nature, other then to say, "How can I get it out of the way, and put my creation in its place?"

Humans:

Versatile has nothing to do with it. The ancient Gilneans were taught bits of druidism by the Night Elves, but that's all they were able to learn. They didn't have the ability to fully connect with the class and do more than cast a few crop benefitting spells until they were affected by the Worgen Curse, which is druidic in origin.

Night Elves:

The race has an extreme hate of anything demonic in nature. After countless wars with them, and various groups defecting because of it, it's hard think allowing the free use of demonic power to be anything but cultural suicide. Yes, they have every ability to become Warlocks, but racial identity isn't going to allow it unless there is a massive change in how they view the class.

Your argument against the Draenei being able to wield shamanism is just flat out wrong. Shamanism isn't about connecting to the individual world, but just the elements. They all draw from the same elements on the Elemental Plane, which is accessible from any planet, in any universe. The basic elements of fire, water, earth, and wind exist everywhere. As for the Night Elves, it just comes down to it not being in their culture. They could, but they are far more concerned with the world itself than it's elements.

Worgen:

It's a similar issue with the Forsaken; realistically, a Priest or Paladin healing a Forsaken would kill them rather than save them. The Worgen Curse isn't as straight forward as that, but it's there. However, on top of that we have the time lock issue. The Gilneans have never had any of the Silver Hand to instruct them in the ways of being a Paladin; they simply didn't exist in the town or its history. Anything that isn't there isn't likely to be added as it tampers with time and the past.

The argument isn't game mechanics, but the lore time-line. The Worgen emerge from a very particular point in time, and do not multiply their numbers. The ones that came from Gilneas are the only Worgen that exist within the Alliance and there will never be any more. Their numbers will only dwindle from here on out.

Blood Elves:

The Blood Elves rely on Mu'ru to feed their magical addiction. If they don't use Mu'ru to feed the addiction, whatever other magic they wield has to be able to fill that void. I have a hard time believing that the elements would allow themselves to be used just to feed a bodily addiction, and shamanism isn't in the culture of the Blood Elves, or any elf for that matter. They care for nature, but they don't particularly care for the elements.

Goblin:

Time lock. Randomly throwing Monks or Paladins into the past where they didn't exist, but now suddenly do, is nigh impossible.

Orcs:

It has to do with when and where the power of druidism was given - by Cenarius on Azeroth, and through Loa. Until the Orcs reconcile with either of those and gain their favor, they don't have access to druidic magic. The Orcs don't even worship per se, let alone worship gods, their culture is based around respecting the elements and nature.

Because the Orcs don't worship the Light, syphon energy from Mu'ru, worship An'she, or practice voodoo. They would have to meet one of those criteria to be any type of Priest or a Paladin. It would take a fairly large culture shock to change that.

Tauren:

By lore, the Tauren Priests are only Holy, but they do not use the Light. As with the Forsaken, we cannot deny them access to another spec because of game balancing. These Tauren worship and draw power from An'she, the sun god, who is roughly the other half of Mu'sha, the moon god, whom the Tauren Druids draw power from and whom is sometimes speculated to just be Elune under another name.

Tauren do not posses the agility to be a Rogue, or the nature for it. You compared the Orc's honor as if it were the same thing. Similar, sure, but not identical. The honor of the Orcs will always come down to victory in battle, while the Tauren would rather die in battle playing by the rules than to live with what they would call acts of cowardice.

Trolls:

I already agreed that Troll Paladins have a shot through their seemingly endless Loa, so I don't see why you made an argument out of it, and an incorrect one at that. Neither the Blood Elves, the Tauren, or even the Draenei use the Light. See previous racial descriptions. However, you raise a questionable point about the Horde Paladins. Exactly what can of worms did Blizzard open? Each race that was given the class had a racially unique reason for it, and was backed by lore. I fail to see how that's a pandora's box situation where any race could just then latch onto those ideas. Just as the Humans aren't about to go and worship Elune, why would any other Horde race go and worship An'she?

Forsaken:

You're arguing that game mechanics dictate lore, and they don't. The game will follow lore as closely as possible, but will likely be altered for the sake of game balance. What happens in the game is not necessarily cannon.


Yes, the game is story based, and yes, a story can be written to justify anything, but it still needs to follow a sense of logic and reasoning. Otherwise, I'm justifying that I rule the world because my underpants are blue. They're magic underpants, really. We've been given a basis for how the world of Azeroth and it's inhabitants function, their habits and racial identities aren't just given up on a whim. We'd have to see major changes in many things to allow these new combinations. It's funny that you want to call uniqueness a bad thing. Uniqueness is what draws people in, it's what makes it interesting. If this game wasn't unique, the vast majority of us wouldn't be playing it at all.

To accuse elitism in the view of a being a special snowflake is ridiculous, arrogant, and a straw man fallacy.

[Eliot123]

Just a random thought - we've seen dozens, if not hundreds, of Gnome snipers throughout the game (especially during Gnomeregan reclaiming operation), so why can't Gnomes be hunters yet (other than the somewhat stupid ''pets would eat them'' arguement which makes no sense)? They're like *the* marksman hunter. :P I understand other combos are more or less illogical due to race history, lore, etc, but Gnome hunters would fit in the game really - they love technology (yay high-tech guns *cough*Ulduar*cough*), they hang around with Dwarves all the time (which are huge on hunting and shooting), there is no ''Light'' or such magical component in being a hunter that would prevent Gnomes from becoming one due to lack of faith, and the size arguement is pointless, today half the pets are bigger than the biggest races anyway (like rhinos or dinos).

[Celista]

Just a random thought - we've seen dozens, if not hundreds, of Gnome snipers throughout the game (especially during Gnomeregan reclaiming operation), so why can't Gnomes be hunters yet (other than the somewhat stupid ''pets would eat them'' arguement which makes no sense)? They're like *the* marksman hunter. :P I understand other combos are more or less illogical due to race history, lore, etc, but Gnome hunters would fit in the game really - they love technology (yay high-tech guns *cough*Ulduar*cough*), they hang around with Dwarves all the time (which are huge on hunting and shooting), there is no ''Light'' or such magical component in being a hunter that would prevent Gnomes from becoming one due to lack of faith, and the size arguement is pointless, today half the pets are bigger than the biggest races anyway (like rhinos or dinos).

I agree that it does seem to make sense or at least more sense than some of the other gnome classes currently available *cough*. :P If the next expansion is really going to be about the Burning Legion again then I can definitely see gnomes being a petless hunter class aka sniper or demon hunter.

Personally I was hoping it would take a few more expansions for us to return to Outlands but that's just me...(offtopic)

It's funny how so many of the posts in here are about gnomes and the undead, maybe these races need some love.

[-Superman-]

It's funny how so many of the posts in here are about gnomes and the undead, maybe these races need some love.

I think they absolutely do. They are very popular races. Yet races like the Trolls get tons of love from ZA/ZG, the Zandalari line, and tons of other stuff PLUS Trolls, as a playable race, can be any class except paladin. I'm thinking it is time to give every other race the ability to be something more than what they are. It's been long enough, the races have intertwined, and the face of Azeroth has been altered. We now have Night Elves using Arcane magic, dwarves learning Shamanistic roots, humans learning how to hunt, and panda's who go both ways and can be just about anything cept pally, lock, or DK. If not Expansion 5, then Expansion 6 needs to unlock the Race/Class combos for good and show that each race has the ability to learn a new skillset or can be taught how to tap into the light/nature/shadow/arcane for their powers.