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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Wipeanrunbak View Post
    Um see post #16 If you are a hunter that's worth his salt then you know how to properly manage your focus. My fervor is ALWAYS used on CD. By you clicking on it separately you take a split second to think if you should use it or not. Which is wasted time. By macroing it to GT which cost only 15 focus I can anticipate when fervor is coming so I can manage my focus accordingly thus never hitting focus cap and always having the focus I need for BA/ES. Below is the macro I use it works very well for me.

    #showtooltip
    /castsequence reset=3 Glaive Toss, Fervor

    PS. I guess I will just have to agree to disagree
    The thing is that it's not all about capping on focus. You are gonna be better off using Fervor during Rentaki or other longer trinket procs to get as many arcane shots of as possible without having to cast Cobra Shot too much during the trinket proc. Fervor is also really nice for AoE and burst phases, none of which your Fervor+GT macro will be more useful than together with anything else. Sorry, but your macro is too random to even be viable.

  2. #22
    The Lightbringer Tehterokkar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wipeanrunbak View Post
    well I'm sorry you hit focus cap during hero and such. I don't when in doubt spam arcane no excuse to ever hit cap unless you pop fervor and lnl procs then your only capped until you can spam out your ES then back to normal rotation. You probably cast to many cobras during hero I pretty much spam arcane b/c of the increased focus regen. and your reasoning to say I'm wrong is for what 10% of the entire fight length?
    I use Cobra to keep up SrS, sometimes I'm at 80 focus after that(Due to increased haste effects etc.) and I use GT, you'd be way over capped if you used your macro.

    Refreshing SrS manually is a DPS loss if you are able to do Cobra shots.

    I have no clue what you start the fight with, but for me it is(and what has been probably claimed as optimal):

    ES
    BA
    SrS
    Fervor + aMoC
    GT
    RF+Stampede
    ES
    Readiness+ES
    GT (<-- At this point I am very full(70-90?) on focus with no Cobra Shots at all)
    etc.

    See the issue? You want to hit GT on CD, but when you reset everything with Readiness, you also reset Fervor, and using Fervor on the GT after Readiness would not only overcap your focus, but also clip the Focus per Second Buff you have left from previous Fervor. Also if you delay GT because of this, you lose DPS, and since the first 30 seconds or so of the fight are usually full of procs, using 2 Fervors seperately to their full effectiveness will give you more instant shots instead of Cobra shots/Focus capping.

    Also, you can't maintain AS spam, even with RF and BL both up, your focus regen is only around 13/s at best. AS costs 20 focus(not to mention BA, ES and aMoC which all have higher focus costs).

  3. #23
    i use thrill of the hunt ^^

    My MaL http://myanimelist.net/animelist/Draknalor For The Glory Of Ecchi

  4. #24
    Fervor

    Just burn out focus below 20 for when the cooldown comes up, then use it and blow more on Arcane Shots and Explosives

    Done deal

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  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Wipeanrunbak View Post
    well I'm sorry you hit focus cap during hero and such. I don't when in doubt spam arcane no excuse to ever hit cap unless you pop fervor and lnl procs then your only capped until you can spam out your ES then back to normal rotation. You probably cast to many cobras during hero I pretty much spam arcane b/c of the increased focus regen. and your reasoning to say I'm wrong is for what 10% of the entire fight length?
    lolol.. so since your fervor is macroed to your GT.. on the opener when you readiness.. do you just delay your second GT and spam AS to wait to get low on focus ? It's funny you saying taking a 'split' second to decide when to hit fervor would be a dps loss whereas you delaying GT is perfectly fine eh ? What are you smoking..

    In absolutely no situation would macroing fervor EVER be a dps gain.. it will ALWAYS be a massive dps loss.. and like someone else said, if you don't like the extra bind just use ToTH..

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Draknalor186 View Post
    i use thrill of the hunt ^^
    I prefer TotH also except when I get procs on high focus and everything is on CD. TotH is also passive so I can free up action bar space you just have to manage your focus low so you dont cap a lot.

    I could see fervor being better for MM so you can focus up for aimed shots more often and you dont want to use arcane a lot over aimed. ToTH is still better in aoe fights though in either spec. TotH in marks procs and I can multi forever as long as it keeps going with bombardment which happens a lot.

    I prefer to never use dire beast since its an extra button and goes against the pet free hunter option. I also didnt like that it popped up some random pet.

  7. #27
    Stood in the Fire Desh's Avatar
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    Fervor is taken to offset the ridiculous focus cost of AMoC. The reason BM doesn't take fervor is because BM has BW. When 5.3 comes around, it looks like we're going to be taking the Blink Strikes passive over AMoC which should then allow us to take Dire Beast as Survival. Right now, it's not really an option. Even then, Fervor is still very good for aoe.

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  8. #28
    The Lightbringer Tehterokkar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Desh View Post
    Fervor is taken to offset the ridiculous focus cost of AMoC. The reason BM doesn't take fervor is because BM has BW. When 5.3 comes around, it looks like we're going to be taking the Blink Strikes passive over AMoC which should then allow us to take Dire Beast as Survival. Right now, it's not really an option. Even then, Fervor is still very good for aoe.
    According to FD, BS is 270 DPS loss(or -0.19%) over aMoC in 5.3. Very minimal, but this would require pet to be attacking something 100%, aMoC is still better for burst though(Eg. Wind Lord Heroic).

    Regarding Fervor vs. DB in 5.3....

    With Blink strike as lvl 75 skill:

    8.7min fight

    Fervor: 146111.63
    DB: 145802.45 (-309.18 (-0.21%))

    Nothing has changed. Fervor scales better than DB, that is why DB is no longer the best option for single target. Also majority of the fights include AoE/multi-dotting, making Fervor better in all cases.

    Also the reason BM takes DB is because of it scaling with Mastery, thus getting the damage boost to the DB pet

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tehterokkar View Post
    According to FD, BS is 270 DPS loss(or -0.19%) over aMoC in 5.3. Very minimal, but this would require pet to be attacking something 100%, aMoC is still better for burst though(Eg. Wind Lord Heroic).

    Regarding Fervor vs. DB in 5.3....

    With Blink strike as lvl 75 skill:

    8.7min fight

    Fervor: 146111.63
    DB: 145802.45 (-309.18 (-0.21%))

    Nothing has changed. Fervor scales better than DB, that is why DB is no longer the best option for single target. Also majority of the fights include AoE/multi-dotting, making Fervor better in all cases.

    Also the reason BM takes DB is because of it scaling with Mastery, thus getting the damage boost to the DB pet
    the thing is, if you simulate fervor vs DB wihtout the 5.3 BS, DB still will sim higher than fervor.

    however, using fervor increases greatly Wild Hunt uptime, increasing pet damage. (not only you get more basic attacks, but more double damage basic attacks). so getting BS increases the value of Fervor even more. Also the new BS seems to affect stampede pets, dunno if this is implemented in simc or FD. This makes stampede a stronger CD for SV/MM. Regarding aMoC vs BS for burst, I just can´t see how amoc is "bursty", in my gear (520 ilvl) it equals hardly 10-12K DPS increase during 30 sec

  10. #30
    The Lightbringer Tehterokkar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pichuca View Post
    the thing is, if you simulate fervor vs DB wihtout the 5.3 BS, DB still will sim higher than fervor.

    however, using fervor increases greatly Wild Hunt uptime, increasing pet damage. (not only you get more basic attacks, but more double damage basic attacks). so getting BS increases the value of Fervor even more. Also the new BS seems to affect stampede pets, dunno if this is implemented in simc or FD. This makes stampede a stronger CD for SV/MM. Regarding aMoC vs BS for burst, I just can´t see how amoc is "bursty", in my gear (520 ilvl) it equals hardly 10-12K DPS increase during 30 sec
    1) For me Fervor has been better ever since I got to 500-ish iLvl. Also I have done FD testing, from which I found out that the higher your latency is, the higher DB sims for. This is due to the extra shots you get from Fervor being delayed by your latency.

    2) I believe BS affecting Stampede is a bug, can't see it going live like that.

    3a) During 30 seconds that aMoC is up, it does WAY WAY more DPS than BS(5.3) does, but during the CD of aMoC(the next 1min30sec), the damage evens out. The damage done between those 2 abilities in 2 minutes will be roughly the same, but if you need something to die that lives for 30 seconds/Boss Damage phase, aMoC will win out. Simple explanation below at 3b

    3b) If you had to choose between a CD, say 30% haste for 10 seconds every minute or 5% passive, the end result would be the same in theory(Both give 5% haste as average). But in practice, you might get a proc/two that line up with that CD every minute or otherwise needed for damage increase of boss phases. Making the CD way more attractive.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Tehterokkar View Post
    2) I believe BS affecting Stampede is a bug, can't see it going live like that.
    I don't think it's a bug- the stampede pets just use basic attacks like normal so unless they explicitly block it, it's logical that they would be affected. My site does reflect stampede benefitting from BS.

    I will not be surprised if some tweaks are made before 5.3 goes live, currently BS scales far too strongly with haste for BM which is likely to create a balancing issue as our gear improves (plus it increases the gap between BM/SV single target, which I don't think was their intention).

  12. #32
    Stood in the Fire Desh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tehterokkar View Post
    According to FD, BS is 270 DPS loss(or -0.19%) over aMoC in 5.3. Very minimal, but this would require pet to be attacking something 100%, aMoC is still better for burst though(Eg. Wind Lord Heroic).

    Regarding Fervor vs. DB in 5.3....

    With Blink strike as lvl 75 skill:

    8.7min fight

    Fervor: 146111.63
    DB: 145802.45 (-309.18 (-0.21%))

    Nothing has changed. Fervor scales better than DB, that is why DB is no longer the best option for single target. Also majority of the fights include AoE/multi-dotting, making Fervor better in all cases.

    Also the reason BM takes DB is because of it scaling with Mastery, thus getting the damage boost to the DB pet
    You're forgetting several things. Yes, BS requires pet attacking 100% of the time but AMoC has its drawbacks too. High focus cost and the fact that if there isn't a second worthwhile target, you have to delay AMoC for 25-30 seconds after your initial readiness, delaying every subsequent AMoC. There's also the issue of ability bloat and the fact that AMoC is a pain in the ass to fit into the priority/rotation because of how much focus it costs, especially for Survival. I don't see how AMoC, a 30 second dot that ticks for about 12k (I have 501 ilvl), is bursty. DB costs 0 focus, you need to be below 50, at minimum, so you don't focus cap when using Fervor. Fervor is unnecessary when you aren't using AMoC. BM takes DB because Fervor is a complete waste when BW reduces the focus cost of AMoC by half, making it much more manageable. Sure, it scales with mastery, but that's not the only reason.

    Main Toon - Hunter (currently an LFR hero). Blue Label - 14/14H (SoO) 25 man.
    YouTube - I post all my gameplay (mainly KH, so far) videos here (mostly boss fights), I am currently running through Kingdom Hearts II: Final Mix on Proud Mode. I am aiming to catalogue all boss fights in 1080p HD using PCSX2 to emulate and Fraps to record. Give my videos a watch and some constructive criticism. Thanks.

  13. #33
    I tend to swap skills a lot and macro Fervor with AMoC. Fervor is not on the GCD so you do not need cast sequence and I never have Fervor without AMoC. If I want to use it with multi I am already to low on focus for AMoC to go off but Fervor still will when I use the button. Here is the auto talent icon changing macro I use with it. Fervor needs to be at the end of the macro and basically restores the focus I just blew on AMoC.

    /use A Murder of Crows
    /use Blink Strike
    /use Lynx Rush
    /run local G=GetSpellInfo SetMacroSpell("Lv5", G"A Murder of Crows" or G"Blink Strike" or G"Lynx Rush")
    /cast Fervor

    Anyone see the macro or my use of it flawed somehow?

    Amaascus
    Last edited by Amaascus; 2013-04-20 at 12:41 AM.

  14. #34
    At the beginning of T14 raiding I was using DB, but at some point Fervor started to simm higher for me so I switched talents and never looked back. I prefer it over DB because it gives me better control of focus.
    But now, with 524 gear and reforging crit>haste>mastery DB gives me over 3k dps increase, which is too high to ignore. I cant find the reason for it, maybe because of weapon, im still running with 509 or maybe its some shot shifting issue on FD (haste rating value is -1.3). So im gonna switch to DB (excluding Horridon and Tortos) and see how it goes.
    Cant post link to my armory (forum rules, Im a noob here), but if someone would like to check it, maybe im doing something wrong, any help or advice will be welcome:
    EU Emerald Dream Vim
    Last edited by Minihunter; 2013-04-20 at 11:07 AM.

  15. #35
    The main reason most top players take Fervor is that it has perfect synergy with AMoC.

    There is a good discussion to be had though, because in terms of rotational abilities, Dire Beast is the most damage per GCD we have available to us.

    Fervor is there to negate the cost of AMoC. The playstyle of having it off the GCD feels very dynamic and is a lot of fun.

    Fervor is also very strong during execute, as you lose almost 20% of your GCDs to Kill Shot, and it can be hard at times to cast Cobra without delaying something. 60 focus for AMoC during execute can be especially hard to find.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Desh View Post
    I don't see how AMoC, a 30 second dot that ticks for about 12k (I have 501 ilvl), is bursty.
    The easiest way to explain it:
    Blink Strikes and AMoC are designed to have about the same total damage. Say 100 damage over 2 minutes. AMoC does that same 100 damage on a 2 minute CD, but all of that damage happens within 30 seconds. Meaning that, if you have a minute to burst a target down and you use AMoC/Readiness/AMoC, you'll get in 1 minute what it would take Blink Strikes 4 minutes to do.

    And that's absolutely relevant on some fights.

  17. #37
    I just agree with the last part (about the excute range) otherwise I don't understand why lots of people are complaining about AMoC cost.

    -It can be planned well in advance (come on, one has to use it only every 2 minutes)
    -If you delay it by a couple of seconds or even more, it's not an issue in 99% of the situations as you'll end up using the same number of AMoc over the course of the fight. That's only an issue if these delays are going to make you lose one which generally doesn't happen.

    The only time I find it difficult to use it is at the beginning if I've chosen Toth but there is pretty much no fight where we should use Toth this tier anyway.

    I guess the reason why DB starts to sim higher with the heroic stuff would be because of the amount of haste we stack which increases the value of DB directly.

  18. #38
    Personally I love to use Fervor as Survival because of massive and >instant< focus regen.
    When playing BM we've got BW where e.g. aMoC costs only 30 focus and KC only 20. But.. when playing Survival you don't have CD like this and also every ~24 seconds u have to use BA which is additional focus "waste".
    So Fervor makes your gameplay extremaly comfortable and in opposite to BM (where DB scales with mastery) you just don't lose DPS.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Desh View Post
    You're forgetting several things. Yes, BS requires pet attacking 100% of the time but AMoC has its drawbacks too. High focus cost and the fact that if there isn't a second worthwhile target, you have to delay AMoC for 25-30 seconds after your initial readiness, delaying every subsequent AMoC. There's also the issue of ability bloat and the fact that AMoC is a pain in the ass to fit into the priority/rotation because of how much focus it costs, especially for Survival. I don't see how AMoC, a 30 second dot that ticks for about 12k (I have 501 ilvl), is bursty. DB costs 0 focus, you need to be below 50, at minimum, so you don't focus cap when using Fervor. Fervor is unnecessary when you aren't using AMoC. BM takes DB because Fervor is a complete waste when BW reduces the focus cost of AMoC by half, making it much more manageable. Sure, it scales with mastery, but that's not the only reason.
    Delaying an AMoC by 30s only matters if you would lose an AMoC over the course of the fight, and is thus fight specific. I find on many fights that the delay lines up with getting the 1m AMoCs during execute pretty damn fine.

  20. #40
    Does anyone know if Dire Beast gets the buff from hunter standing in Jin'rokh pool?

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