So will the Orcs actually learn their lesson this time?

[Deleted]

Im not a big fan of blizzard recycling the same storyline over and over and over. Orcs act like marauding chaotic evildoers, get redeemed somehow.

Okay, it was cool the first time, the Orcs showed at Hyjal that they can defend the world if needed. But now this is getting excessive.

What do you think? Will the Orcs learn their lesson this time, or will we be back here again in a couple of expansions when they wage more wars of genocide ("Death to the Alliance!" they cheered, "Death to the Alliance!") for poorly explained, half assed reasons, to put yet more "war" into Warcraft?

I like the orcs, I really do.. under Thrall they could have become something great. But this constant lapse back into Stupid Evil is getting excessive.

[Pebrocks The Warlock]

Don't you mean the Horde? Why do you just call them "Orcs"? They are no longer just orcs.

[Trassk]

I'm not a fan of it either. You know what drew me to warcraft and the horde, was reading about how the orcs came from a dark background and yet overcame it, followed honor again and began to mature as a race.

Everything since cata has felt like a massive step backwards for the orcs, and we all know the orcs are going to just realize how bad it was to follow Garrosh and relent or die, so honestly, why did any of this lead to but the story going in a loop?

[Colonel Sandor]

Well here it go's.

They were peaceful.

Legion corrupted them.

Grom Free'd them.

Orc's still at war with Alliance over past tensions and Alliance refusing to co-op with Thrall.

New Warchief comes into town.

Becomes a tyrant.

Horde overthrows him.

[Surfd]

Since so many people still do not get it, lets just say it one more time:

Garrosh does not speak for every Orc.
Garrosh does not speak for the Horde as a whole.

Judging an entire Race / Faction based on the Actions of a Small Subset of said Race / Faction is not conductive to a balanced viewpoint.

Exactly why do we need more threads like this?

[Deleted]

Don't you mean the Horde? Why do you just call them "Orcs"? They are no longer just orcs.

Because every other Horde race is against Garrosh, and are fighting the Orcish war machine as of 5.3?

[Pebrocks The Warlock]

Because every other Horde race is against Garrosh, and are fighting the Orcish war machine as of 5.3?

We have yet to see the Forsaken and Goblins join the rebellion. That, not all of the other races will join their respective leaders in taking down Garrosh.

[Trassk]

Since so many people still do not get it, lets just say it one more time:

Garrosh does not speak for every Orc.
Garrosh does not speak for the Horde as a whole.

Judging an entire Race / Faction based on the Actions of a Small Subset of said Race / Faction is not conductive to a balanced viewpoint.

Exactly why do we need more threads like this?

Because there will always be people who can't get even the most basic of concepts like who the bad guy is and why he needs to be stopped. They even try to create running arguments to validate there inability to understand it.

[Razorice]

It's called World of WARcraft for a reason and not World of Peacecraft.

[Penguintamer]

Aren't most of the orcs in Garrosh's army entirely different orcs than the ones at Hyjal and the ones being all bad in the earlier Warcraft games?

[Trassk]

It's called World of WARcraft for a reason and not World of Peacecraft.

Get so bored of reading people use this as an excuse for not understanding whats happening in the story.

[Deleted]

It's called World of WARcraft for a reason and not World of Peacecraft.

I dont really like this approach. There can be war in Warcraft without waging unprovoked genocide on people that, frankly, don't deserve it.

This isn't a bashing thread. The vast majority (literally EVERY SINGLE ORC we've met in MoP) supports Garrosh right now, except Thrall and Saurfang and Etirigg..... thats just how Blizzard have presented the story. I'm questioning whether repeating this all the time is best for the story.

[Rivin]

It's called World of WARcraft for a reason and not World of Peacecraft.

Even if you completely remove the Horde vs Alliance conflict from the story, the entire game has still been about war. War against the Dark Irons/Ragnaros. War against the Black Dragonflight. War against the Scourge. War against the Burning Legion. War against the Scourge (again). War against the Blue Dragonflight. War against the Old Gods. War against the Twilight's Hammer. War against the Black Dragonflight (again). War against the Mogu and the Sha.

The game doesn't need a Horde/Alliance conflict to be about war. At this point it's becoming very forced.

[Deleted]

It's called World of WARcraft for a reason and not World of Peacecraft.

oh oh! I know the answer to this one! It's because we're fighting the Burning Legion!


Bet you expected people to say it's because the Horde and Alliance fight. Well no, there's other enemies now, and we're not having picnics with them, the war is with the Burning Legion, the Old Gods, the naga etc. The old war, the one from WC1 and 2, that should go away, it had enough for now.

[Deleted]

lol thats pretty random to be honest.

[Deleted]

Even if you completely remove the Horde vs Alliance conflict from the story, the entire game has still been about war. War against the Dark Irons/Ragnaros. War against the Black Dragonflight. War against the Scourge. War against the Burning Legion. War against the Scourge (again). War against the Blue Dragonflight. War against the Old Gods. War against the Twilight's Hammer. War against the Black Dragonflight (again). War against the Mogu and the Sha.

The game doesn't need a Horde/Alliance conflict to be about war. At this point it's becoming very forced.

Chris Metzen's view on that is even shallower than that of an average WoW player. You see, most people would say "it has to be world of WAAAAAGHcraft". Chris Metzen went on record orc-human war is the specific conflict "Warcraft always boils down to" because... that's what the first game was called. I'm not kidding you.

[Surfd]

Aren't most of the orcs in Garrosh's army entirely different orcs than the ones at Hyjal and the ones being all bad in the earlier Warcraft games?

Nah, Garrosh's army mostly consists of the Kor'kon elite, who would basicly be made up of all the Like Minded Orcs found in the Orc part of the horde.

If anything, I imagine that after the Seige of Orgrimmar is over, it will be looked back at as something like a housecleaning, where most of the Horde Elements who simply could not let go of war for the sake of war / conquest are cleaned out of the horde. Of course, that does not mean that Blizz wont come up with silly reasons to write in keeping the Horde / Alliance conflict on the backburner as we move into the next expantion on Wratharian's coattails with the Legion as the major villian (much the same way as things were in Wrath with the Lich King as the big bad).

[Trassk]

I can understand having conflict where it matters. But everything since wrath ended in terms of the 'conflict' between horde and alliance has felt forced and contrived. It felt like the only reason there is this full scale war, is because the wrong kind of posters whined about wanting it, and so blizzard just said 'f**k it, lets give them a war so they shut up'.

---------- Post added 2013-04-07 at 07:31 PM ----------

Chris Metzen's view on that is even shallower than that of an average WoW player. You see, most people would say "it has to be world of WAAAAAGHcraft". Chris Metzen went on record orc-human war is the specific conflict "Warcraft always boils down to" because... that's what the first game was called. I'm not kidding you.

And whats so wrong with his breakdown of the story there? He is the guy who made this game and its story, he holds the cards and if he tells you what the main theme of the story is, then who is anyone else to question it?

[leaks]

Yes, just in time for the humans to form a cult and hand the rest of their kingdom over to the legion.

[Deleted]

And whats so wrong with his breakdown of the story there? He is the guy who made this game and its story, he holds the cards and if he tells you what the main theme of the story is, then who is anyone else to question it?

I'm saying that's a very bad story. You can't limit yourself to one, very old story that has been played out and every possible angle has been worn out. You can be the creator of something and still screw something up. If Metzen remains at "we must keep pulling weird reasons for orc/human war out of our arses", he will still screw it up.

The story was most engaging when we weren't at this same, old war. When characters weren't forced into two-dimensional thinking of "us vs them", you had characters with actual problems and personalities. I can see shades of that since MoP, but Metzen & co. still don't know how to properly drive a war narration.