So will the Orcs actually learn their lesson this time?

[Trassk]

I'm saying that's a very bad story. You can't limit yourself to one, very old story that has been played out and every possible angle has been worn out. You can be the creator of something and still screw something up. If Metzen remains at "we must keep pulling weird reasons for orc/human war out of our arses", he will still screw it up.

The story was most engaging when we weren't at this same, old war. When characters weren't forced into two-dimensional thinking of "us vs them", you had characters with actual problems and personalities. I can see shades of that since MoP, but Metzen & co. still don't know how to properly drive a war narration.

I do confess, having the same angle of having orcs and humans always fighting one another and always looking for new reasons to hate one another does indeed get tedious, and after you've read the entire history of warcraft, played the games leading up to wow, and played wow since vanilla, you can't help but wonder 'why the hell do you need to keep repeating this grudge match between orcs and humans, its been done, find something else to focus on'.

Yes I see your point now, in a way, what I feel can only benefit the story is to stop repeating the same arch, just allow for some racial development for all races.

however, I also believe the reason why the devs don't allow themselves to be more daring, is because the game itself prevents them from being so. I mean lets face it the mechanics of wow itself prevent things from really changing in a dramatic way, you can not split races apart from the horde and alliance, and they won't allow any race that is on the opposing side to make friends with any race on the other side either, the game itself would be screwed if they allowed this to happen.

So really, unless blizzard takes the next step in warcrafts story and make a new warcraft game, you won't be seeing anything dramatic beyond slap fights and name calling.

[Talen]

Since so many people still do not get it, lets just say it one more time:

Garrosh does not speak for every Orc.
Garrosh does not speak for the Horde as a whole.

Judging an entire Race / Faction based on the Actions of a Small Subset of said Race / Faction is not conductive to a balanced viewpoint.

Exactly why do we need more threads like this?

Because Garrosh IS the orcish leader, Garrosh DOES speak for the race and because the "small subset of said Race" are those like Thrall. Most orcs like Garrosh, approve of his ways and follow him with pride.

He gets things done. He brings them victory. He has given them a sense of purpose. A goal. A dream.

All the things Thrall wouldn't or couldn't do.

True, he's done it by scapegoating the Alliance -"They're rich. We're poor - lets just go take things" and he has clamped down on internal dissent. nd it appears he is going to be ruthless putting down the troll rebellion.

But right now - yes, we probably can judge the orcs through Garrosh. He isn't one being acting atypically from others of his kind.

Will the orcs learn their lesson this time? Unlikely.

EJL

[Darth-Piekus]

That's the problem here Talen. You see this Fourth War was forced on us just because some Bring Back The War to Warcraft Children were whining for it. Most of those who wanted the war in warcraft haven't even played beyond Wrath of the Lich King. They don't have an idea of the story of the game. Even if they claim they know they probably lie. The War was always in Warcraft. It doesn't have to be Horde vs Alliance and definately not this Shitty Scenario where the Alliance is presented as something weak (especially the Night Elves) and the Horde are the strong one with Super Weapons out of Metzens Ass. The thing is that those children who wanted the war are now crying and asking for the Horde or at least the Pro War Horde to not pay the consequences. They are the reason Cataclysm was shitty and the whole Fourth War Scenario was shitty and Metzen for hearing them.

Now I'm not sure what will happen after the Siege of Orgrimmar but the Horde had a chance already after the Second War to change their ways. Clearly the Horde and mostly the Orcs have some issues with their anger. This will be a second and final chance. They are guests in Azeroth. Do they want to help defend it and be polite from now on or be a villain forever? We will wait and see.