Poll: I can't let GC get away with that last blue post! Did you enjoy ToC? Favorite bosses?

Be advised that this is a public poll: other users can see the choice(s) you selected.

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  1. #181
    It didn't even feel like a real raid

  2. #182
    I disliked ToC because there was no trash. I like having some mindless trash mushing between boss fights so that I can relax and we can chat on TeamSpeak. It was just one boss after another and it just drained me of any enthusiasm. Also, the difficulty of heroic mode had no relation to the difficulty of the normal mode. Normal mode was stompable in 20 minutes. I think our best run of 10N was so fast we still had Sated from the first boss when we were in the last phase of the final boss. Heroic mode was a fucking brick wall. You thought heroic Rag was a brick wall? How about heroic Northrend beasts when each application of the bleed had a 50% chance to instantly kill the tank?

  3. #183
    The Unstoppable Force Orange Joe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auberdeen View Post
    After reading the new blue notes, I ran across this and it just pissed me off to be honest:
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    -ToC was awesome because it stood on the integrity of it's encounter design. It was a minimalist approach that worked.
    I thought the encounters were well crafted. Overall the raid was not popular though. New art and architecture are important
    -Faction Champs was still one of the coolest encounters I've ever done though.
    I liked it personally, but it was less popular with players not used to dealing with no aggro, interrupts, CC and the like.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    GC, may I ask where you are getting your data from? I and practically every person I have ever spoken with, whether it be in-game, IRL friends, forums etc LOVED ToC, especially ToGC! The idea of being in a coliseum with your Faction Leader staring down upon you to engage in a no-trash, head on bout is, tbh, flipping awesome! Than to be able to do hard modes? WHAT?! dude. shit was baller status.

    If I am not mistaken, the idea of the Brawlers Guild is somewhat of a 1man variation(with no end boss of course) of ToC, is it not? Yes, Brawlers Guild provides random mobs, but the foundation is very similar.

    ToC brought out the inner badass in you, like watching Maximus Decimus Meridius in Gladiator, Achilles slay Hector in Troy, and similar to the feeling late in FF7 when you can do that gladiator style battling to see how far you can go for rewards.

    So, community, did you like ToC, did you not like it? Who was your favorite boss? I don't usually post threads about pointing a finger at GC whom I highly respect, but I couldn't let that post go, it made me pound my desk and my goldfish got scared : /
    Where are you getting your data? Poll says you are wrong.

  4. #184
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    The thing with limited tries in ToGC and your performance making the loot at the end better was quite nice (once in a while. I definitely don't want every instance to have something like that), but the raid itself was shit in every way. Extremely boring looking, no trash, no feeling of a raid, absolute hilariously unlogic out of place final boss, stupid gating at release, too many different IDs and I could go on and on...

  5. #185
    The real lesson is that people will complain about anything.
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  6. #186
    Quote Originally Posted by laggspike View Post
    what is the first thing most people think as fast they come into a raid? start to complain about the trash, the trash is fucking boring..

    and we got a raid without trash, and people complain about that, and ofc hate it for some stupid reason, i think you shuld complain about somthing else instead..


    and tbh, i loved toc, i did all 4 of them at current time and had a blast every single week.
    Different people, different opinions. Those who like trash complain about raids without trash, those who don't like trash complain about raids with trash.

    What many have yet to understand is that very few people start a thread because they like something. While many will start a thread (or even more than one!) for every single detail they don't like.

    That way, it would seem that everybody complains about everything, when, in fact, most people don't even visit these forums.

    No amount of complaints will mean that the majority of players hate something. Although the feedback about ToC was particularly negative and had some good reasons, the most objective one being the small amount of bosses and too many lockouts made it feel shorter and more repetitive than any other raid.

  7. #187
    Legendary! TirielWoW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dedweight View Post
    Same though I didn't run it nearly as often as you claimed to have, I may have ran it on average twice a week(always on normal mode, didn't clear heroic till after ICC was released). I didn't mind the boss fights in the raid so much as I hated the overall aesthetics of the raid, I get that it was based on an arena/coliseum but they could have done something with it.
    I raided it 4 times a week on my main, 3 times on my first alt, another 3 on my second alt, and I occasionally got dragged into going on a third alt.
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  8. #188
    Quote Originally Posted by Auberdeen View Post
    After reading the new blue notes, I ran across this and it just pissed me off to be honest:
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    -ToC was awesome because it stood on the integrity of it's encounter design. It was a minimalist approach that worked.
    I thought the encounters were well crafted. Overall the raid was not popular though. New art and architecture are important
    -Faction Champs was still one of the coolest encounters I've ever done though.
    I liked it personally, but it was less popular with players not used to dealing with no aggro, interrupts, CC and the like.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    GC, may I ask where you are getting your data from? I and practically every person I have ever spoken with, whether it be in-game, IRL friends, forums etc LOVED ToC, especially ToGC! The idea of being in a coliseum with your Faction Leader staring down upon you to engage in a no-trash, head on bout is, tbh, flipping awesome! Than to be able to do hard modes? WHAT?! dude. shit was baller status.
    Quote Originally Posted by Auberdeen View Post
    angry in terms of when: a fat person says they dont like ice cream. or a kid says they dont like playing. or person who wears cabela camo doesn't hunt. that kind of angry.
    Quote Originally Posted by Auberdeen View Post
    Maybe you guys are land-locked and just mad at life in general. TROPHIES bro, gimme that TROPHY!!!!
    Words fail me. I mean, I'm not even really sure how to respond to this. OP must be playing a completely seperate game or something. To be honest, I'm not sure he's operating in the same universe as the rest of us...
    Last edited by Firecrest; 2013-04-08 at 05:38 PM.
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    Either give an argument, or be automatically wrong. Your choice.

  9. #189

  10. #190
    So OP what do you think of the poll results so far?

    I personally thought ToC was lame the design was lame an ENTIRE raid you could nearly throw a snowball across to someone it was so small.

    The encounters were Lame how many times did we have to kill Anub in WotLK 3 ?

    And my biggest gripe of all coming as a dps dk main / fury war alt was the gear sets were atrocious from looks to LAME set bonuses. IT WAS ALL LAME.

    I never got to see naxx in vanilla so naxx in LK was super fun for me i am probably one of the few who didnt care much for ULD but I did take my first wow raiding break when ULd was released.

    First impressions nothing will ever beat Kara and ICC. Of course I quit playing wow now because its to dumbed down and I still never got over the Panda thing. I heard the thunder raid thing is pretty nice but seems a bit over tuned.
    "I'm Tru @ w/e I do" ~ TM

  11. #191
    Deleted
    At the time (and following ulduar) TOC really didnt feel all that epic.

    But I much, much prefer the low trash , low walking raids.

    TOES as an example. Trash is just mindnumbing, offers no challenge, and is pointless. For that reason I actually quite enjoyed ToC , some interesting encounters, and the 'attempts' mechanic added a nice and different challenge too.

    If there was a raid instance like TOC where I didn't have to do hours of boring walking and trash, I might consider raiding again.

  12. #192
    Brewmaster Olianda's Avatar
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    I loved ToC, it's biggest problem was it was the followup to Ulduar.

    Parts of the tier gear looked godawful, but the Alliance rogue set, and the Horde Paladin set (minus the helm) was godlike, I still use it to this day because the colors are so amazing.

    Faction champs were awful with PUGs, but I think it's still my favorite fight.
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  13. #193
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    I really enjoyed the fights, problem was the actual raid was boring and badly paced. Also doing the whole 10/25 man in the same lockout was needed to be optimal.

  14. #194
    It was easy enough on regular that people could run it with multiple alts on 10m every week, and so hard on heroic at the time due to gear inflation requiring boss mechanics to be extremely brutal on the tanks. So people were running it all the time and having a hell of a time clearing heroic, all the while using up limited attempts. This made it very unpopular. Objectively, fixing those few things about it (which aren't even in the game anymore) probably would have made it much more popular.

  15. #195
    TOC was awful and was one of the biggest reasons the game declined.

    For one, it offered high end gear way too easily. TOC gear should have never been better than Ulduar. At worst it should have been a sidegrade, kinda like how ZA gear was a sidegrade back in BC. This caused massive ilvl inflation, which in turn created the whole concept of ilvl epeen and all that. Easy raid + easy gear = inflated player sense of worth and complacency.

    Secondly, it rendered Ulduar obsolete. Ulduar was one of if not the best raids ever designed by Blizz, but as soon as TOC was released there was no need to ever go back since it was way tougher than TOC and offered worse gear. Many players barely scratched the surface of Ulduar but were full clearing TOC.

    Third, the zone itself sucked. Yeah trash is annoying, but you can't have a raid without trash. Every video game ever always has minions you have to go through before you fight the boss. How "epic" would Super Mario be if you got to the castle and instantly fought Bowser? Boss after boss gets boring. And it's all basically in one room! Lazy, terrible design. The fights themselves weren't bad though I admit.

    All in all, TOC was one of if not the biggest mistakes ever made by Blizz. We need more raids like Ulduar, TOT, and less like TOC welfair pinatas.

  16. #196
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by FobManX View Post
    TOC was awful and was one of the biggest reasons the game declined.

    For one, it offered high end gear way too easily. TOC gear should have never been better than Ulduar. At worst it should have been a sidegrade, kinda like how ZA gear was a sidegrade back in BC. This caused massive ilvl inflation, which in turn created the whole concept of ilvl epeen and all that. Easy raid + easy gear = inflated player sense of worth and complacency.

    Secondly, it rendered Ulduar obsolete. Ulduar was one of if not the best raids ever designed by Blizz, but as soon as TOC was released there was no need to ever go back since it was way tougher than TOC and offered worse gear. Many players barely scratched the surface of Ulduar but were full clearing TOC.

    Third, the zone itself sucked. Yeah trash is annoying, but you can't have a raid without trash. Every video game ever always has minions you have to go through before you fight the boss. How "epic" would Super Mario be if you got to the castle and instantly fought Bowser? Boss after boss gets boring. And it's all basically in one room! Lazy, terrible design. The fights themselves weren't bad though I admit.

    All in all, TOC was one of if not the biggest mistakes ever made by Blizz. We need more raids like Ulduar, TOT, and less like TOC welfair pinatas.
    You can't have a raid without trash? Says who?

    I don't even queue for lfraid because of the boring trash. TOES is much more fun. Bosses are enjoyable, trash is not.

  17. #197
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    I loved Faction Champions. Watching the people who brag the most about their raid history die repeatedly because they're a ranged person who has no idea what to do when the enemy isn't targeting the tank or dead before it gets to them absolutely made my day.

    Almost half our group was dead by the time we got the healers down. Then those of us who knew how to react and think on our feet would finish the fight with little difficulty by kiting, using survival cooldowns, interrupting, and CC'ing. I've rarely felt so involved while raiding.

  18. #198
    While the beasts encounter was fun, and Anub'arak was tough, I'd just as soon eat a bullet than do an entire raid in a single fucking room for months over again.

  19. #199
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    Gear looked awful, save for one or two weapons (and they weren't great either, just not awful imo).

    Just didn't feel 'epic' either. Overused term perhaps, but given the relatively small scope of the instance, small amount of relatively unimportant bosses (Everyone save Anub'arak may as well have been in a Vanilla 5 man instance for all their impact on the game world) and dodgy gating/attempts system, yeah. Compared to Ulduar and to a lesser extent ICC, I thought it was poo.

  20. #200
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    I liked the initial idea of a colosseum esque raid, but the arena was small and apart from the twin valkyr and faction champions the bosses sucked. The Arena itself was too small and not grand enough and when the lich king somehow appeared out of nowhere and collapsed the ground I thought "aaahhhh sheeeeeettt the Nerubian raid we were looking for!" Aaaaand it's just one boss, not even going inside the awesome Nerubian architecture and it's Anubarak again, and he's blue. Never before have I raged at an instance like I did then...

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