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  1. #1

    Enhance Solution

    Enhance needs some more sustain in PvP due to the purge nerf, I've also heard they arent the best in PvE.

    Nerf stormblast a little maybe 5-10% depending on how big of a sustain buff we get.

    Three options to solve this

    1) Buff Windfury and frostbands damage also make windfury nature damage.

    or

    2) Give us LvB and make it usable with maelstorm (least favorite, but might fix some issues)

    or

    3) Make out mastery 30% base instead of 16%


    Or give us double purge as a pssive (seems the most approproate)
    Last edited by rtaylor92694; 2013-04-07 at 08:34 PM.

  2. #2
    Enh is fine, it just still needs a flat defensive increase, with all the Stuns, and full unmitigated openers we eat, Hunters can drop a enh during 1 silence shot in most cases
    the flat out problem with this is, Rage isnt reliable its barely a effective defensive, considering every class has Major Outs, Bubble,Detur,Cloak,Disperse,Sheildwall/diebythesword, so on so on

    the major problem currently is once trained, we fly through all of our base defensives way too quick, infact currently the best comps for us to run are with the classes who eat us the most "enh/hunter" "enh/rogue" which oddly we share dr's with both classes with hex,

    what enh mostly needs is buffed mitigated dmg, Ele even takes more base dmg then Enh, because of sheild "but if enh rides shield all game, u lose all pressure"

    Rage needs to be scaled higher, or we need a revamp of defensive's period, we have great utility, great burst, but walking around in full stunlocks all game, with only 1 reliable defensive "which just reduces dmg taken" is beyond bullshit, the fact we rely on trying to slow down the dmg we take is a horrid design because thats basicly how it is "healing tide.. to slow dmg taken" % reduce dmg, which is barely noticeable when being bursted

    all and all, if a Class is full of stuns, it stomps enh, locking us out of all the mentioned defensives, and defeated the purpose of them in general

    Balance is fine currently in arena, but something needs to be done about hunters,rogues
    those are the only 2 counter classes to enh period. you can dot rogues anymore to prevent stealth, u cant consistantly sit on a hunter because of auto pet stuns, and un dispelled roots

    Yes enh is weak "obviously vs phdk/thugcleave/kfc, anything that pressure is too instant on a opener, where u can die literally in 1 silence shot

    our class was basically designed to be a ANTI Caster cleave, but has been ignored in the Physical mitigation department, which needs to be addressed


    we rape all spell cleaves
    we rape shadowcleaves
    we rape rmp's
    we die to anything with a decent hunter period "as dose most people"
    Last edited by Halakon; 2013-04-05 at 07:22 AM.

  3. #3
    enh was fine in 5.1, enh is not fine in 5.2

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-05 at 08:48 AM ----------

    No one wants to read a long post. We are already receiving a defense buff. Our damage is lack luster outside of ascendance.

    Im 2300 this season and last season as resto. I feel I know my class very well. Im 2100 this season as elem and 2k as enh in S12. We do not rape spell cleaves as hard as we did in 5.1. With this purge nerf we need damage to make up for it else we arent gonna be able to compete.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by rtaylor92694 View Post
    Enhance needs some more sustain in PvP due to the purge nerf, I've also heard they arent the best in PvE.

    Nerf stormblast a little maybe 5-10% depending on how big of a sustain buff we get.

    Three options to solve this

    1) Buff Windfury and frostbands damage also make windfury nature damage.

    or

    2) Give us LvB and make it usable with maelstorm (least favorite, but might fix some issues)

    or

    3) Make out mastery 30% base instead of 16%
    im not sure we need that serious buffs to dmg expecially in PvE, altrought we are lacking a bit with sustained dps on PvP out of ascenadance idd, prabobly cose our utility, heal and dps abilities share MSW charges

    what i would like to see is
    -some "oh shit button" good defensive cd like ice block or dispersion, some stun immunity for 10-15 sec would make arenas playable to
    -revamp to that damned Capacitor, every class have couple stuns in their arsenal only we have to use something that is just not reliable
    -snare, freeze immunity for ~5 sec on spirit walk would not kill anyone and help us alot
    Last edited by kosajk; 2013-04-05 at 11:26 AM.

  5. #5
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    Yes I would like spirit walk to give us immunity to slows/roots again for a few seconds after it's use. Bump up the cd to 2 minutes again and leave the glyph of spirit walk as it is. As it stands now you tend to get rooted/slowed right after using it most of the time. If you specced into it you can drop windwalk totem to negate that but that's just dropping 2 cd's for the same utility we once had. The upside of course being that we can do it twice as often as in cata.
    I also feel like our burst could be lowered for more sustained damage. One of the reasons I liked playing enhance in cata over other melees was because we were not about burst but good sustained damage whenever we could have decent uptime. Now it seems all (melee) classes are about burst over sustained damage which makes the choice of which one to play even more irrelevant. I sometimes wonder why I don't just roll a dk who have better defense, nigh constant burst and the same kind of lacking mobility as we have.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by kosajk View Post
    im not sure we need that serious buffs to dmg expecially in PvE, altrought we are lacking a bit with sustained dps on PvP out of ascenadance idd, prabobly cose our utility, heal and dps abilities share MSW charges
    Dont forget that many spec into UF and use FB instead of FT. I imagine that to still be quite a dmg loss (FT>FB, SF, UE:FT), even with the 4p bonus. That and using FrS often instead of the stronger FS and ES. But you are right. Heals and Hexes (and withheld msw charges for saving a hex for when needed).

    It would be cool if hex would be instant for enh so that we can go for more damage/heal instead, and never again have to withhold charges.
    UE:FB could use a dmg buff. Personally I still think that blizz should make FT ele only and revamp FB for enh as our go-to imbue.
    Quote Originally Posted by Angoth
    I'm sorry that Blizzard won't just gift wrap awesome in a cup and let you drink your fill.

  7. #7
    I dont pve as Enh so I cant say my opinion on that, but if we are fine in PvE bring back double purge for Enh. Make double purge baseline for Enh and make that glyph for elemental and Resto

  8. #8
    Purge nerf really hurt, took enhc from one of the best melee to the worst.

  9. #9
    ^^ agreed. They wouldve been so boss in 5.2 with all the priest healers

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Omanley View Post
    Dont forget that many spec into UF and use FB instead of FT. I imagine that to still be quite a dmg loss (FT>FB, SF, UE:FT), even with the 4p bonus. That and using FrS often instead of the stronger FS and ES. But you are right. Heals and Hexes (and withheld msw charges for saving a hex for when needed).

    It would be cool if hex would be instant for enh so that we can go for more damage/heal instead, and never again have to withhold charges.
    UE:FB could use a dmg buff. Personally I still think that blizz should make FT ele only and revamp FB for enh as our go-to imbue.
    While it won't solve everything, I think the Lava Lash damage bonus should be removed. Before the 4p, it forces us down FT and we have to choose crappy slows (that cost us damage from the shared cooldown) or reduced damage. We need to be more free to use Frostbrand without requiring a set bonus or losing damage.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Emophia View Post
    Purge nerf really hurt, took enhc from one of the best melee to the worst.
    The lightning shield glyph in 5.3 will be nice though
    Multi-Glad 2700+ enhance shaman
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  12. #12
    Ya but that doesnt help our lack of pressure, but it is definitely a step in the right direction

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Millie View Post
    While it won't solve everything, I think the Lava Lash damage bonus should be removed. Before the 4p, it forces us down FT and we have to choose crappy slows (that cost us damage from the shared cooldown) or reduced damage. We need to be more free to use Frostbrand without requiring a set bonus or losing damage.
    Yes, for those still preferring FT for the superior damage through higher base damage, SF charges and UE/F as well as the magical damage modifier, the 4p is completely worthless.
    Blizz seems hellbend on us using wf/fb in pvp (looking at both the UF:FB effect and the 4p), but seem to completely neglect the fact that FT does just that much extra damage.

    Back in vanilla, the difference wasn't that big. For some reason they added SF damage to FT only and make FT enhance LL as well as adding that spell damage muliplier. UE/F is also part of the big dps loss. While it makes sense element-wise, it screws with ingame balance.

    It was said often before that the FT extra damage on LL should be baked in. They could leave the 4p to further increase LL damage though. This way it could actually mean a dps increase to use FB over FT in pvp (and pvp only, because it is bound to pvp gear). Since UF:FB is hard to let go for a class struggling to be competitive with gap closing, I cant imagine many taking anything other than UF as talent (that and elementals being killable, EB requiring MSW (which we already need for heals/hex)), so UF is kinda mandatory for enh pvp.

    Enh would greatly benefit from a sweeping change to:
    gap closing:
    give us our feral spirit's leap ability on a cooldown similar to charge => instant gap closer like most other melees
    OR
    reduce spirit walk's cooldown to 20-30 seconds, lowering duration to like 6 seconds, and providing 3 seconds immunity to movement impairing effects => movement increase + freedom effect like ret

    in terms of the first option, give spirit walk that immunity back still, but keeping a higher cooldown (could be 2 minutes again, or could be a glyph option)
    with one of the above two options, UF:FB's utility will lose much of its importance, same with GW repressing snares. The latter will still be important for ele (not sure about resto's current performance), so I could see that aspect added as ele specific at least.

    damage distribution, ultimate talents and imbues:
    With UF:FB losing its importance and mandatority as a gap closer talent, other talents will become more interesting. As mentioned in another thread, EB should become instant, at least for enh (I imagine ele being in need for more instant action as well though, pvp they seem to be very much pooped still).
    Elementals not being tied to totems would be also cool imo, because those pets being easily destroyable by destroying their totems, or them disappearing because of outranging those, it doesn't feel right, especially for a ultimate talent.

    If we kept the snare proc to FB but removed its damage and instead transferred FT's current on hit damage to it (FB dealing damage on every hit, proccing snares every now and then), baked the FT bonus into LL and SF and magical bonus into FB (or into the spells affected), we could change to FB as the official oh-imbue and design FT for ele only (allowing for procs on spells, similar to earth living, instead of just being a damage multiplier for ele).

    With that, we'd need a new UE/F effect. I think it'd be nice for UE:FB
    -to deal frost damage and enhance the next damage spell of any element against monsters (UE:FT'S current effect, but expanded to affect more than just FS or FN)
    UF:FB
    -we root the target for 3-4 seconds (instead of snaring), and stun it for 5 seconds when already rooted (instead of empowered snare (Frozen Power, Earthgrip Totem, other classes...)), with a cooldown (every second UE/F?)
    -against monsters immune to stun, we unleash extra frost damage, similar to frost mages' deep freeze (adding more frost damage into the mix alongside FB)


    with those changes, ultimate talents for enh would be:
    pvp:
    UF for utility in form of root/stun
    PE for improved burst cooldowns and some utility (pulverize)
    EB for another source of bursty damage (on range to boot)

    pve:
    UF and EB for extra damage burst on short cooldown
    PE for improved burst cooldowns

    seems okay to me


    cc:
    With getting a useful stun through either CPT being improved or other means (like my suggestion above), all that's left is to make Hex more user friendly.
    1) Just like against npcs, it shouldn't allow for targets to hop around as they please. Blizz or Activision or whoever is responsible for that screwup saw the need of this in pve, but kept it in pvp for w/e reason. It's bogus. CC means taking control from the target. The target can still move about like it did before. Silence is no cc really.
    2) Make it instant for enh to free up msw (similar to EB). With that, msw will only be used for heals and damage, and that's enough. It should have a lower cooldown for ele also (other casters can spam their cc).


    I am not sure I should write anything considering >>survivability<<, because some of my suggestions would enhance (get it? haha ) that already.

    Totems:
    What I want for totems is a more individual look and the removal of elemental brackets, as well as improving on CPT and SBT's user friendliness.

    Removing the restrictions by element, shamans would be able to use totems entirely freely, like other's utility (keep Elemental's shared cooldown, and keep it to one fire totem only).

    By looking at totems more individually, I hope blizz would look more at the single totem, not the mechanic as a whole:
    -should every totem be destroyable? (earthbind vs freezing trap, mushrooms, old desecration, piercing howl and others all being undestructable, or Searing Totem as a cp builder vs other dps buildups being indestructable)
    -should every totem be stationary? (Elementals as pets being tied to immobile stick vs other pets, Searing Totem as our CP builder being immobile)
    -how much hp does each and every totem need (not every totem having 5hp, or 10% shaman hp, but looking at what the totems do and wether or not they should be able to be one shot, or long enough a cooldown to require more investment in dmg/burst/time)

    CPT could be just one second charge up or even instant, but a two or even three minute cooldown to compensate for such a buff. Honestly I'd rather have a sure fire aoe stun every second for third minute than a crippled and unreliable one (even when glyphed/talented) once a minute (or even more often with TR).

    SBT, with the removal of elemental brackets, would become MUCH more interesting as its duration running its course wouldn't block other totems, but it should also be improved on how its absorb works. It should be able to stack its absorb and punish players for not destroying it. It should be a rewarding experience for a shaman to hide an SBT well and get actually noticable mitigation, especially when left unfocused for some time, allowing the Absorb to reach nice amounts.


    With these four bolded parts being looked at, I think survivability would probably be fixed along the way.
    Last edited by Omanley; 2013-04-06 at 09:46 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Angoth
    I'm sorry that Blizzard won't just gift wrap awesome in a cup and let you drink your fill.

  14. #14
    The only thing i would welcome with open arms is to cast totems while silenced, it takes away so much from our toolkit.

    Our dmg is fine, i think simply that the other classes are way too stacked with defensive cds. DKs in arenas are untouchable by us, warriors with passive health regeneration etc. If you "remove" all that, our dmg is perfectly fine.

    I think we need more of an utility overhaul than just flat out dmg inc. Spirit Walk shoudl give immunity for slow effects, there are WAAAAAAAAY too many slow/root in game, you use the ability and right away, slowed again.

    Hex needs to look at and/or the capacitator totem, and make it so, that upon totemic recall ALL your totems placed on top of eachanother at the center, instead of keeping the box formation.

    For enhance, i would reduce Windshear's cd back to 6sec, for elemental, i would increase the lookout by one sec and leave everything as it is for resto. This would help more distinct the specs from eachanother and make shaman what it is. Ele as caster, enhance as anti caster.

    Long story short, i think, we need better/more utility than just dmg buffs.

    Also, make our dmg during Ascendance pure magic, so it cannot be blocked and parried. Otherwise its way too frickin easy to counter us.
    Last edited by Darksoldierr; 2013-04-06 at 01:16 PM.
    Time is on our side
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  15. #15
    Combine Flametongue and Frostbrand into "Frostflame" or something similar, so that we can get both a snare and a damage boost.

    Cooldown of shocks reduced to 4 seconds, using any Shock spell now provides X% damage reduction for ~10 seconds.

    Enha's healing surge costs 50% less mana and heals for 50% more.

    Reduce mana cost of EVERY Enha Damage/Totem spell to a maximum of 2500 mana.

    Move a big % of our total damage into Shocks and MWeap spells, instead of them being so wimpy.

  16. #16
    Enhance is fine, but i would change maelstrom weapon. i would like if it could get up to 15 or 20 stacks. but for instant LB you still need 5. It will add abit more burst that shaman lacks imo and prevent wasting of those stacks if you already have 5 and still hitting.

  17. #17
    A lot of you are overthinking it imo. Enhc doesn't need anything big, the new Lightning shield glyph, and making double purge an enhc only passive and they'd be good to go imo. Maybe bake in ghost wolf glyph as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hitriy View Post
    Enhance is fine, but i would change maelstrom weapon. i would like if it could get up to 15 or 20 stacks. but for instant LB you still need 5. It will add abit more burst that shaman lacks imo and prevent wasting of those stacks if you already have 5 and still hitting.
    That would be stupid, Enhc burst healing would be insane. And more burst damage isn't really want enhc needs nor is it good for the game.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Emophia View Post
    A lot of you are overthinking it imo. Enhc doesn't need anything big, the new Lightning shield glyph, and making double purge an enhc only passive and they'd be good to go imo. Maybe bake in ghost wolf glyph as well.
    some good defensive cd would be worth more than extra purge for me, i cant count how many times i died on opening from rogue + anything or hunter + aything, or mage + anything, some clases have good burst, supreme control and supreme defense while others like enh have only good burst and only with ascendance up

    Quote Originally Posted by Emophia View Post
    That would be stupid, Enhc burst healing would be insane. And more burst damage isn't really want enhc needs nor is it good for the game.
    i thinked exactly same thing but for everything is solution, healing out of MSW x4-5 is not efective anyway so why not make it stack to 10-15 like someone sugested before and if you heal with it it lock healing spells for 4-5 sec, easy not to op and not changing much in our survivability, its pretty hard to have MSW x5 more often anyway tbh

  19. #19
    Enh would have been fine this expansion had they left in a few passive talents and some abilites from cata.

    The talent that gave a passive speed increase along with a passive slow/root duration reduction. Seems a bit odd that we have to pop ghost wolf to close a 5 yard distance with a ranged.

    IMO i think frost shock snare needs the minimum range back. It DRs way too quickly.

    Wolves need a serious look at, Demo imps hit way harder than wolves do.

    Imbues need to be off the global cd.

    The passive needs to be reimplemented that lowers the global cd triggered by shocks by .5seconds.

    Ghost wolf glyph needs to become baseline, thats just absurd that it became a glyph.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by kosajk View Post
    some good defensive cd would be worth more than extra purge for me, i cant count how many times i died on opening from rogue + anything or hunter + aything, or mage + anything, some clases have good burst, supreme control and supreme defense while others like enh have only good burst and only with ascendance up
    Rogue burst, BM Hunter damage, and mages being able to gib anyone in a deep or blanket silence is not an enhc problem, they need damage reductions regardless of how good or bad enhc is.

    I agree with your second point, That's why we should keep double purge imo.

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