Thread: E'lune the Loa

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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    I always assumed Elune was just like our real world gods and goddesses. You know, not real.

    But as it turns out, this is a work of fantasy and therefore every myth and legend is real :P
    Here's the thing....you can't prove every myth, legend, and tales of gods and goddesses in the real world aren't real. Just imagine if, on an ethereal level, if every religion throughout time's myths were true in some way.

    Yeah, I said it. What if in 1000 more years we found out the Greek/Roman gods, the Norse gods, the Eskimo myths, and the native American myths, along with Christianity, Islam, Hinduism and everything I can't think of were somehow for serious on a cosmic level and not just stories we made up to explain things we don't understand.

    Personally, I'd want to buddy up with Fenrir and hope I'm spared his snarly sharp toothy wrath.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-08 at 04:30 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Grummgug View Post
    Elune is ridiculously powerful. Easily the most powerful being in the Warcraft universe. She just chooses not to interfere.

    To understand just how powerful Elune is, recall the story of Aviana. Aviana was merely BLESSED by Elune to become a messenger. Aviana's blood, when it came into contact with demons, purified them and made them holy beings, completely and utterly undoing Sargeras' corruption.

    So a side effect of a side effect of Elune's powers is VASTLY stronger than Sargeras' magic. I have no doubt that if Elune directly confronted Sargeras, Elune would purify his essence and turn him back into a holy being in an instant.

    There is no way in my mind that she is a mere Naaru or Loa. I would like to think there are higher beings than Titans, and Elune being such a thing makes her much more interesting and enriches the lore.
    On the flip side, a naaru could not stop the effects of the Scourge plague on that paladin in Northrend, necromantic magic mastered by agents of the Burning Legion and down to the Lich King. They could only, basically, pull his spirit out of its mortal coil and transfer it on to wherever it goes rather than him turning undead.
    Last edited by Faroth; 2013-04-08 at 04:31 AM.
    "There is good and evil in this world; we must find the black and white in the gray."

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Wildmoon View Post
    There are a lot of things that are different between nature of Elune and Naaru.
    *Shrug* we know almost nothing about Elune other than Night Elf legends. They probably do not remember her accurately, if she ever revealed much of herself to them at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post
    Pretty naaru-ish except that every naaru we've seen interacts directly with the mortals they are protecting, speaks to them, and has ongoing discussions and conversations with mortals with no qualms about floating around chiming their windchime voices while you look smack dab right at them.


    I'm just not a fan of the way Blizzard is essentially tying every detail throughout the entirety of the cosmos directly to the Titans and Old Gods in every conceivable way. It's boring.
    Well otherwise you have a universe that's created by numerous unrelated mystical, technological and/or theological entities none of which make sense with one another.

    Frankly, Elune, the Loa and the Ancient Guardians are mostly the ones that don't make sense.
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  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post
    Here's the thing....you can't prove every myth, legend, and tales of gods and goddesses in the real world aren't real. Just imagine if, on an ethereal level, if every religion throughout time's myths were true in some way.

    Yeah, I said it. What if in 1000 more years we found out the Greek/Roman gods, the Norse gods, the Eskimo myths, and the native American myths, along with Christianity, Islam, Hinduism and everything I can't think of were somehow for serious on a cosmic level and not just stories we made up to explain things we don't understand.

    Personally, I'd want to buddy up with Fenrir and hope I'm spared his snarly sharp toothy wrath.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-08 at 04:30 AM ----------



    On the flip side, a naaru could not stop the effects of the Scourge plague, necromantic magic mastered by agents of the Burning Legion and down to the Lich King.
    The best evidence we have at the moment that Gods are real is that we haven't found any life beyond Earth. In all our searches of the universe, we found no signals, no artifacts, no evidence, no strange constructs that only an intelligence could design. Its pristine and untouched as far as we can detect. That's a very strange and unexpected scenario. Its like the universe was created for us and us alone, until proven otherwise.

  4. #24
    The Loa and the ancients appear to be the same for all intents and purposes, they are all ethereal animals of some sort that are revered by at least one culture enough to have a shrine built in their honor.

    Elune has never been describes as an ethereal animal, but then again I don't believe there is any lore supporting that she has ever been seen by anyone, but if she has it seems awfully odd to call a animal or a Naru a goddess and to my knowledge Loa's/naru/ancient animal spirits are incapable of transforming into humanoid figures.

  5. #25
    It would be equally interesting to learn that Elune is this "Wizard of Oz" type character. A goblin carnie from the Darkmoon Faire gets catapulted WAYYYY back in time and impersonates a goddess to stay alive. He gets REALLY good at the trickery over millennia and no one has figured it out yet.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    *Shrug* we know almost nothing about Elune other than Night Elf legends. They probably do not remember her accurately, if she ever revealed much of herself to them at all.

    Well otherwise you have a universe that's created by numerous unrelated mystical, technological and/or theological entities none of which make sense with one another.

    Frankly, Elune, the Loa and the Ancient Guardians are mostly the ones that don't make sense.
    Actually, you have a universe that's basically the Lego Land of the Titans and everything is the blueprints of their design. I prefer a splash of unexplained and illogical mysticism in fantasy pantheon. Millions of years of cosmic history don't necessarily need to be explained and understood.

    But then the question remains....the Titans draw magic from the Nether, so where does that come from? Do the Titans mechanically create nature through machinery? How did the Titans come to be? What created them? If they're the almighty creators of all things, where did they came from? There are still forces of good and evil, otherwise Sargeras wouldn't have opted for chaos over order. And so on and so forth.

    Why would Elune, the Loa, and the Ancient Guardians not make sense if the elements of Azeroth and the Elemental lieutenants existed when the Titans arrived? If the elements have overseeing beings, why can't other aspects of the planet?

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-08 at 04:37 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Grummgug View Post
    It would be equally interesting to learn that Elune is this "Wizard of Oz" type character. A goblin carnie from the Darkmoon Faire gets catapulted WAYYYY back in time and impersonates a goddess to stay alive. He gets REALLY good at the trickery over millennia and no one has figured it out yet.
    I like this idea to explain the Titans more. They're actually giant goblin & gnome created mechanical vehicles
    "There is good and evil in this world; we must find the black and white in the gray."

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post
    Here's the thing....you can't prove every myth, legend, and tales of gods and goddesses in the real world aren't real. Just imagine if, on an ethereal level, if every religion throughout time's myths were true in some way.

    Yeah, I said it. What if in 1000 more years we found out the Greek/Roman gods, the Norse gods, the Eskimo myths, and the native American myths, along with Christianity, Islam, Hinduism and everything I can't think of were somehow for serious on a cosmic level and not just stories we made up to explain things we don't understand.

    Personally, I'd want to buddy up with Fenrir and hope I'm spared his snarly sharp toothy wrath.
    Can't prove leprechauns aren't real either. Or the tooth fairy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post
    On the flip side, a naaru could not stop the effects of the Scourge plague on that paladin in Northrend, necromantic magic mastered by agents of the Burning Legion and down to the Lich King. They could only, basically, pull his spirit out of its mortal coil and transfer it on to wherever it goes rather than him turning undead.
    That quest was basically a memorial to a guy who died of cancer, so none of those powers could cure the Plague because it's a metaphor for something we can't cure in the real world. I don't think it's a good idea to take it too seriously lore-wise.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-08 at 04:47 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post
    Actually, you have a universe that's basically the Lego Land of the Titans and everything is the blueprints of their design. I prefer a splash of unexplained and illogical mysticism in fantasy pantheon. Millions of years of cosmic history don't necessarily need to be explained and understood.

    But then the question remains....the Titans draw magic from the Nether, so where does that come from? Do the Titans mechanically create nature through machinery? How did the Titans come to be? What created them? If they're the almighty creators of all things, where did they came from? There are still forces of good and evil, otherwise Sargeras wouldn't have opted for chaos over order. And so on and so forth.

    Why would Elune, the Loa, and the Ancient Guardians not make sense if the elements of Azeroth and the Elemental lieutenants existed when the Titans arrived? If the elements have overseeing beings, why can't other aspects of the planet?
    The Elemental lieutenants was a bit of a lore ass pull really. A lot of that still doesn't make sense. The Old Gods themselves barely do.

    As far as I can tell the Titans are not the creators of the universe, they're more like sufficiently advanced aliens with technomagic. All-powerful gods relative to the races of Azeroth, but not cosmic deities. They do go around seeding worlds with life though.
    Last edited by Mormolyce; 2013-04-08 at 04:48 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    Look Batman really isn't an accurate source by any means
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    It is a fact, not just something I made up.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    Can't prove leprechauns aren't real either. Or the tooth fairy.
    Leprechauns are real, man. They be stealin' mah cereal.
    For all our great intelligence, we're still discovering new species of not just insects, but mammals, fish, and birds. Sometimes even in areas that you wouldn't consider deep in unexplored areas of the world.

    If you threw in a fantasy level of ethereal planes (Emerald Dream), the ability for humans to turn invisible, and creatures with control over aspects of nature itself, then a lot of our stories and such could suddenly be real and our level of understanding of the world hasn't discovered them yet.

    And that'd be a wild world if it were true. I imagine we'd be sending some letters questioning the cost value the tooth fairies place on our teeth. A quarter one year, 50 cents another, a dollar another and yet no consistency among us? What's up, tooth fairies, you just make it up on the spot? Let's talk standards here!

    That quest was basically a memorial to a guy who died of cancer, so none of those powers could cure the Plague because it's a metaphor for something we can't cure in the real world. I don't think it's a good idea to take it too seriously lore-wise.
    The cold truth is what's in game is considered official for canon. If the motives of a quest's implementation starts to be required prior to inclusion of it for lore consideration, we might as well argue that nothing in game supports lore until Blizzard goes through and labels everything in game as canon and non-canon facts.
    Last edited by Faroth; 2013-04-08 at 04:53 AM.
    "There is good and evil in this world; we must find the black and white in the gray."

  9. #29
    High Overlord Zhaveros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grummgug View Post
    The best evidence we have at the moment that Gods are real is that we haven't found any life beyond Earth. In all our searches of the universe, we found no signals, no artifacts, no evidence, no strange constructs that only an intelligence could design. Its pristine and untouched as far as we can detect. That's a very strange and unexpected scenario. Its like the universe was created for us and us alone, until proven otherwise.
    Yeah this isn't a thread about our religions. IMO Elune is either a Loa or a completely unique pacifist Goddess or...possibly a good version of Sergaras. She goes on her own mission rather than chilling with the pantheon. I personally think the titans are just highly evolved aliens. Hell, I've even theorized that WoW is just one big thing of science, like how the Force in Star Wars is caused by(A little foggy on details) bacteria in the blood cells. Blizz would never do that because the players would bitch so hard the internet would explode. But a universe of science is the most realistic(Doesn't mean the best) reason for everything in WoW.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-07 at 09:54 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post

    As far as I can tell the Titans are not the creators of the universe, they're more like sufficiently advanced aliens with technomagic. All-powerful gods relative to the races of Azeroth, but not cosmic deities. They do go around seeding worlds with life though.
    Pretty much what I stated below, but the playerbase is gonna cry if WoW turns out to be based on science, not magic. So even though that's a reasonable answer, it is not going to be the one Blizz goes with.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Zhaveros View Post
    Yeah this isn't a thread about our religions. IMO Elune is either a Loa or a completely unique pacifist Goddess or...possibly a good version of Sergaras. She goes on her own mission rather than chilling with the pantheon. I personally think the titans are just highly evolved aliens. Hell, I've even theorized that WoW is just one big thing of science, like how the Force in Star Wars is caused by(A little foggy on details) bacteria in the blood cells. Blizz would never do that because the players would bitch so hard the internet would explode. But a universe of science is the most realistic(Doesn't mean the best) reason for everything in WoW.
    The force is not caused by midichlorians. In the Phantom Menace, its clearly stated that Midichlorians only enable beings to commune with the Force. The higher your count, the stronger your ability is to commune with the Force. The Force is a separate thing though.

  11. #31
    High Overlord Zhaveros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post
    Leprechauns are real, man. They be stealin' mah cereal.
    For all our great intelligence, we're still discovering new species of not just insects, but mammals, fish, and birds. Sometimes even in areas that you wouldn't consider deep in unexplored areas of the world.

    If you threw in a fantasy level of ethereal planes (Emerald Dream), the ability for humans to turn invisible, and creatures with control over aspects of nature itself, then a lot of our stories and such could suddenly be real and our level of understanding of the world hasn't discovered them yet.

    And that'd be a wild world if it were true. I imagine we'd be sending some letters questioning the cost value the tooth fairies place on our teeth. A quarter one year, 50 cents another, a dollar another and yet no consistency among us? What's up, tooth fairies, you just make it up on the spot? Let's talk standards here!



    The cold truth is what's in game is considered official for canon. If the motives of a quest's implementation starts to be required prior to inclusion of it for lore consideration, we might as well argue that nothing in game supports lore until Blizzard goes through and labels everything in game as canon and non-canon facts.
    So that Tauren really did lose his dog? All those times I never help him....

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-07 at 09:57 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Grummgug View Post
    The force is not caused by midichlorians. In the Phantom Menace, its clearly stated that Midichlorians only enable beings to commune with the Force. The higher your count, the stronger your ability is to commune with the Force. The Force is a separate thing though.
    Ah. But they still go off our earth science so that means the Force can be an energy form based off science.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post
    The cold truth is what's in game is considered official for canon.
    Was the Mr T promotion canon? What about that tomb in Netherstorm dedicated to Nova? Or the plants vs. zombies quest in Alterac?

    I think you shouldn't assume absolutely everything in game is 100% canon. It's still a game, there's game/story segregation in play. Plus WoW's tone is not totally serious.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zhaveros View Post
    Pretty much what I stated below, but the playerbase is gonna cry if WoW turns out to be based on science, not magic. So even though that's a reasonable answer, it is not going to be the one Blizz goes with.
    Well that horse bolted what, 9 years ago? Anyway, even if they are science fictiony, there's a Titan of Magic who empowered the magical Blue Dragonflight with magicky magic, so it's a safe bet that they use magic in addition to technology. Or magic and technology are all one thing to them. Or something.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    Look Batman really isn't an accurate source by any means
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    It is a fact, not just something I made up.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    Can't prove leprechauns aren't real either. Or the tooth fairy.



    That quest was basically a memorial to a guy who died of cancer, so none of those powers could cure the Plague because it's a metaphor for something we can't cure in the real world. I don't think it's a good idea to take it too seriously lore-wise.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-08 at 04:47 AM ----------



    The Elemental lieutenants was a bit of a lore ass pull really. A lot of that still doesn't make sense. The Old Gods themselves barely do.

    As far as I can tell the Titans are not the creators of the universe, they're more like sufficiently advanced aliens with technomagic. All-powerful gods relative to the races of Azeroth, but not cosmic deities. They do go around seeding worlds with life though.
    Wait....so aliens trapsing around the universe with no explanation of how they came to exist seeding worlds with every aspect of life makes sense.....but the elemental spirits on a planet prior to their arrival doesn't make sense? How does that pan out?

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-08 at 05:02 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Grummgug View Post
    The force is not caused by midichlorians. In the Phantom Menace, its clearly stated that Midichlorians only enable beings to commune with the Force. The higher your count, the stronger your ability is to commune with the Force. The Force is a separate thing though.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfDmu4f8l8I Off topic of Elune, but nice comparison of scenes from Ep 1 and 4 that details what you said.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-08 at 05:04 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    Was the Mr T promotion canon? What about that tomb in Netherstorm dedicated to Nova? Or the plants vs. zombies quest in Alterac?

    I think you shouldn't assume absolutely everything in game is 100% canon. It's still a game, there's game/story segregation in play. Plus WoW's tone is not totally serious.
    Things like Mr T are pretty clearly a joke, but a full quest chain with details from different aspects of previously explored lore? I'm not sure I'd discount that so quickly. The plants vs zombies spin off actually fits with WoW's type story fairly well.

    Like I said, if we want to go to extremes, it's arguable that NOTHING in the game can be cited as supportive of lore whatsoever if you take that stance.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-08 at 05:06 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    Or magic and technology are all one thing to them. Or something.
    Your people once called it magic, you call it science. Where I come from, they are one and the same.
    Last edited by Faroth; 2013-04-08 at 05:05 AM.
    "There is good and evil in this world; we must find the black and white in the gray."

  14. #34
    Old God Nindoriel's Avatar
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    Blizzard, if you read this, please don't make her a Loa.

  15. #35
    1. Naaru are fine with showing themself to mortals. Elune has never done this.
    2. Naaru are not that powerful. They could be corrupted by agents of legion. Elune is really powerful.
    3. Naaru told mortals not to worship them but the light. Elune favors those who worship her.
    4. Elune created many races. Naaru have never done such a thing. They are capable of it or not, noone knows.
    5. Elune has her lover and son. Naaru don't have gender.


    About Loa issue, I think it's ok to call Elune Loa because trolls call every freaking things they worship Loa. It's just different word use by different culture.

  16. #36
    Herald of the Titans
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    Elune is the white lady

  17. #37
    This is from http://www.wowpedia.org/Loa

    "Worshipped as Loas

    The trolls respect and believe the following to be loas, however the the veracity of this is unknown

    Wisps[11]
    Ancient Guardians of the Night Elves[12]
    Aessina
    Aviana
    Cenarius
    Goldrinn
    Malorne
    Tortolla"

    I find it interesting that Elune mated with Malorne and had Cenarius and that Trolls (might) consider them to be Loas. The OPs point about NEs coming from Trolls and bringing their diety with them makes sense. (assuming the NOT in his statement "In my opinion, it would not be illogical for her to be a Loa. Troll Druids and Troll Priests for example mean it would not be illogical." was a typo or typing with not enough sleep.....)

  18. #38
    Herald of the Titans FuxieDK's Avatar
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    Elune is NOTHING but a scary story, troll parents tell their children..
    "If you don't eat your human liver, Elune will come and remove your tusks and turn you into an ugly Night Elf!" is a phrase, often heard around troll dinner tables...

    I.e. Elune is the "boogyman" of Azeroth.. Noone in their right mind would claim otherwise.. Upgrading her to status of Loa (or higher) is ludicrus..
    Last edited by FuxieDK; 2013-04-08 at 07:23 AM.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post
    Wait....so aliens trapsing around the universe with no explanation of how they came to exist seeding worlds with every aspect of life makes sense.....but the elemental spirits on a planet prior to their arrival doesn't make sense? How does that pan out?
    What I'm saying is, they don't make sense TOGETHER.

    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post
    Things like Mr T are pretty clearly a joke, but a full quest chain with details from different aspects of previously explored lore? I'm not sure I'd discount that so quickly. The plants vs zombies spin off actually fits with WoW's type story fairly well.

    Like I said, if we want to go to extremes, it's arguable that NOTHING in the game can be cited as supportive of lore whatsoever if you take that stance.
    This is true, I think the fallen champion quest chain is one of those borderline examples where its canon status could go either way. I was just pointing out that it's not necessarily rock solid lore and Blizzard could easily go back on it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    Look Batman really isn't an accurate source by any means
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    It is a fact, not just something I made up.

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