My view on the MMO market

[Deleted]

a realm reborn is still toyed to be sub based, been reading the forums for that, the producer is a big fan of blizz, so doubt it will turn into free to play from the get go, really dont understands peoples desire for free to play games and yet want to buy extra stuff.
The gaming experience is terrible with free to play models, played a number and its just dire, also makes those games a utter joke, the development of in game shop items take precedence over the development and improvements over the main game, if people think otherwise, they havent taken a analytic look at those games properly

[Arlee]

a realm reborn is still toyed to be sub based, been reading the forums for that, the producer is a big fan of blizz, so doubt it will turn into free to play from the get go, really dont understands peoples desire for free to play games and yet want to buy extra stuff.
The gaming experience is terrible with free to play models, played a number and its just dire, also makes those games a utter joke, the development of in game shop items take precedence over the development and improvements over the main game, if people think otherwise, they havent taken a analytic look at those games properly

Or perhaps you have just particularly played crappy F2P games. Or maybe your opinion is just your opinion and some of the games you like people who disagree with you wouldn't like. There are plenty of possibilities aside from people who disagree with you can't do proper analysis.

[Deleted]

content and quality of that content is always opinions, but when you take account of the software and programming, and the running stability of such things, not to mention speed to fix issues, not to mention optimisations of the software as it continues, heck even the game engine used, thats not really opinion, this is using mid end hardware to high end, with varying settings.
all of that takes a back seat to the free to play elements to make it work, selling stuff is more important then to fix stuff sadly, as long as people buy, the prio shifts, sub based keeps this more in check, at least for the most part

[RoninaThorstone]

content and quality of that content is always opinions, but when you take account of the software and programming, and the running stability of such things, not to mention speed to fix issues, not to mention optimisations of the software as it continues, heck even the game engine used, thats not really opinion, this is using mid end hardware to high end, with varying settings.
all of that takes a back seat to the free to play elements to make it work, selling stuff is more important then to fix stuff sadly, as long as people buy, the prio shifts, sub based keeps this more in check, at least for the most part

Yeah. No.

IE: firefall launched an overhaul of their game and had three hot fixes in under two weeks. You just don't play enough f2p games.

[Cts53]

The gaming experience is terrible with free to play models, played a number and its just dire, also makes those games a utter joke, the development of in game shop items take precedence over the development and improvements over the main game, if people think otherwise, they havent taken a analytic look at those games properly

Its comments like these that tick me off. Analitically speaking, alot of F2P MMORPGs release CONTENT into their game just as fast as WoW. Yes, placing items into the store happens, but have you seem Blizzs store? For a P2P game, thats quite alot of mounts/pets..

Also, why wouldnt they add stuff to the store? Its how they make a large portion of revenue. As long as its not P2W, then its fine.

Thats all Ive been doing in my "me" time since comp broke; Keeping tabs on all the MMORPGs that ive played, or really want to play. Can never stay away for long cause they are always changing.

To prove my point, look up Age of Conan, or DDO, or AION, EQ2 ext and go to the patch notes. These games DO get frequent content patches, just. like. WoW.

[Deleted]

My personal opinion is that if there's micro transaction content in a game, it shouldn't be called "free to" anything. If you need to pay money to get content, even though that content isn't the core quests, then it's not free.

There are some free to play games out there. You can download them for free, and you can play them for free, and there's nothing you can buy in them. Sure, they're often roguelikes or something like that, but they're truly free.

Then there's the micro transaction games, such as SW:TOR right now. "MT" then maybe? "Micro"? Pay to get more shit, p2gms?

[Phurox]

I will never touch a F2P mmo again.

They are frankly trials. I have to pay real money for respec for an example.

That is just a no go for me.

B2P or p2p is what I do.

[RoninaThorstone]

Then there's the micro transaction games, such as SW:TOR right now. "MT" then maybe? "Micro"? Pay to get more shit, p2gms?

It's called f2p because you don't have to pay a box price or subscription.
Since you can grind to get most things rather than buy them in most f2p MMO, IE: swtor, its pay or grind. Which is a basic rule of f2p design.

[Deleted]

you know, if you read my post closely you would notice that, content is by opinion, how good that is, is opinion, also ive actually played some of those games, they run horribly, and looking at the patches, i dont see much optimisations done, so i fail to see your point, interesting you havent talked about the technical aspects of those games, which are terrible, aion has received a technical patch some time ago, but that was when it was sub based, now i see nothing, ftp games have to sell things in order to make money, we all know this, but its due to that, they are more important to the backers then technical fixes or improvements.

[RoninaThorstone]

you know, if you read my post closely you would notice that, content is by opinion, how good that is, is opinion, also ive actually played some of those games, they run horribly, and looking at the patches, i dont see much optimisations done, so i fail to see your point, interesting you havent talked about the technical aspects of those games, which are terrible, aion has received a technical patch some time ago, but that was when it was sub based, now i see nothing, ftp games have to sell things in order to make money, we all know this, but its due to that, they are more important to the backers then technical fixes or improvements.

You must not play FF. The hotfixes I was referring to were optimization patches.

Also, what's wrong with your computer? Aion runs fine.

[Sj]

I will never touch a F2P mmo again.

They are frankly trials. I have to pay real money for respec for an example.

That is just a no go for me.

B2P or p2p is what I do.

There are plenty of F2P games where you could play and experience the entire game without ever paying a dime.

[Cts53]

I will never touch a F2P mmo again.

They are frankly trials. I have to pay real money for respec for an example.

That is just a no go for me.

B2P or p2p is what I do.

What F2P MMORPGs where you playing? @_@ Ive never seen that in any F2P mmo before

[Deleted]

Well, F2P is usually pay to win. They need to get the money from somewhere and if they only sell stuff that no one cares about in the cash shop they wouldn't be able to. The only game that has been able to do it reasonably well is LoL and it's not even an MMO. I think it's because they have to keep the matches fair. In MMOs it's much less clear though as there is usually no direct competition between players. LotRO from your list doesn't even have PvP.

Currently there aren't any good MMO's to play anyway. If and when I feel like playing one, I'll just stick to WoW. I think the time investment is a much bigger issue than the payment model in my case. You need to spend a certain amount of it before you become interested in one and attached to one, make friends, learn about the game etc. and I don't really see myself doing it in F2P games unless they're something completely different than your standard themepark MMO.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that quality is more important than quantity. I'd much rather pay monthly for one MMO I really like, invest time in it and be guaranteed (as much as its possible) with more or less stable environment and no nasty surprises from the cash shop plus being able to get everything from the game without paying extra.

The only model of F2P I'd support would be one with 100% free market and the stuff sold is coming from players and can be resold. It's the only way to avoid Pay to Win or destroying the games economy because no additional items and value would be added. It would only have the same impact as one player giving another free stuff in a P2P MMO and the cash transaction happens behind the scenes and is meaningless.

[Hraklea]

My view on the MMO market is that WoW's popularity convinced so many people that "WoW is how an MMO is supposed to be" that new MMOs are forced to keep these crappy flaws or they won't sell.

[VincentWolf]

My view on the MMO market is that WoW's popularity convinced so many people that "WoW is how an MMO is supposed to be" that new MMOs are forced to keep these crappy flaws or they won't sell.

Well, yes few tried going different ways, none succeeded. Tera's battle system is nothing like WoW and is pretty awesome. Did it help Tera? No.
GW2 not only has a pretty different gameplay style, but also removed "holy trinity". Did it work? Not really, encounters are pretty hard and uncontrollable.

I hate modern WoW with passion, but I am playing WOTLK on private server at the moment. This game just keeps dragging me in, there's something about WoW that keeps people interested in it... Overall quality... World... I don't know, but WoW is unique. There is no and will never be other mmo as succesful as WoW.

Or maybe there's just either not enough technology or imagination yet to create something truly different, awesome and easy accessible to everyone.
In any case, b2p is the way.

[Hraklea]

Or maybe there's just either not enough technology or imagination yet to create something truly different, awesome and easy accessible to everyone.

We have both, the problem is that an actual good MMO would be so different from WoW that people wouldn't consider it a MMO and would ignore it.

[RoninaThorstone]

We have both, the problem is that an actual good MMO would be so different from WoW that people wouldn't consider it a MMO and would ignore it.

Yeeeep.
Anytime a slightly different MMO comes up in conversation there is always that one wow fan who is like "well, it doesn't have leveling so it's not an MMO." or "well, it has aiming so its not an MMO" or "It doesn't have raiding so its not an MMO" or "it doesn't have factions so its not an MMO" or "it doesn't have multiple races so its not an MMO" or any number of random things wow has.

[Archangel Tyrael]

Yeap it's much better no matter you like it or not.

There is no difference F2P game or B2P/P2P if game is bad it'll have according reviews and playerbase.

I honestly cannot understand what you're saying.

[Vankrys]

Yeeeep.
Anytime a slightly different MMO comes up in conversation there is always that one wow fan who is like "well, it doesn't have leveling so it's not an MMO." or "well, it has aiming so its not an MMO" or "It doesn't have raiding so its not an MMO" or "it doesn't have factions so its not an MMO" or "it doesn't have multiple races so its not an MMO" or any number of random things wow has.

pretty much

i hear things like dual spec is MMO standard, or group finder, or you name it. It has to do that for many of those people, wow was the first and only mmo they played. an MMO can be many thing, as long as it's massive and online.

[grandpab]

I think the MMO industry is in a pretty good place right now. There's more and more higher quality MMOs that are being successful than there was just 3-5 years ago. We're also starting to see more developers trying new ideas. The market felt stagnant for a long time, but I feel that's ending now.

I've been playing MMOs a looong time now, over 13 years, and just taking a look at the past, where things are at now, and some of the things that are coming...I'm looking forward to it.