1. #1
    Stood in the Fire Riemu2k3's Avatar
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    Tanking 10H Tortos Bats

    Hi,

    we're currently progressing on 10H Tortos with Blood DK (me) on the Boss and a Brewmaster Monk kiting the Bats.
    We've hit a stalemate doing it this way. We've also tried tanking the Adds with DK/Monk but they tend to get raped pretty fast.

    I have the possibility to put the Monk on the boss and sub in my Alt Prot Warrior. He has an Itemlevel of 504.

    http://eu.battle.net/wow/de/characte...iemue/advanced (Currently logged out in Fury..)

    I have successfully solo tanked all the little Heroic Empress Adds with him (the main reason I created him in the first place) - killed Empress on our 4th try (About 490 Itemlevel then).
    So I have some experience with tanking nasty mobs. But I'm not really that great - at least it always feels that way, because I'm used to my DK's totally different playstyle and his Itemlevel of 518.

    He is Exp hardcapped/Hit capped, primarily Stamina socketed/enchanted. I don't have any set bonuses (got mainly offspecc items). I don't prioritize Mastery, because I mainly use Shield Barrier while tanking. I only use Shield Block on really hard hitting melee bosses, but I mainly tank those with my Blood DK during progression. So my stats are approx. hit > exp hard > parry/dodge > mastery.

    My main Question now - would it be viable giving the situation, to tank the bats with my Warrior? Or is the Itemlevel too low for that?

    And if it's viable, how exactly would one do that? Still capp exp/hit for rage generation? Or forge everything into dodge/parry?

    I assume tanking wise you would handle it alot like hc empress Adds - Spam barrier and make sure you always have enough rage to re-barrier once it runs out. Nuke the Bats with insane revenge dmg.?

    How about CDs? Glyphed Shieldwall for the first, Painsup for the 2nd wave, but on the 3rd wave Shieldwall isn't ready again, is it? 4th wave Shieldwall, 5th wave ?? (painsup shouldnt be ready then i guess)

    I am also clueless about the crystall shield. I don't think its possible to refresh it, while you tank the bats? Damage will instanly break it again I guess or it will be pretty hard to melee the crystall while tanking the bats? (only have one heroic throw during that time). Best way would prolly be to have a full crystall shell ready when the bats spawn and refresh it as soon as they are dead?


    Thanks alot for your input / help guys!

    Greets

    Riemu

  2. #2
    Dreadlord Ishmad's Avatar
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    All I know (have downed Tortos 10 Normal) that bats are in many occasions very bugged, taking aggro on anyone.

    I bet you need to find your own best way, as we did. (Druid or Monk tanking the boss, and Paladin taking the bats.)

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riemu2k3 View Post
    How about CDs? Glyphed Shieldwall for the first, Painsup for the 2nd wave, but on the 3rd wave Shieldwall isn't ready again, is it? 4th wave Shieldwall, 5th wave ?? (painsup shouldnt be ready then i guess)
    Stack demo shout and swall for the same % and keep the lower cd ?

    Either way i guess you could:
    1st glyhped sw
    2. painsup + demo shout.
    3. last stand + demo banner.
    4. demo shout + rallyin

    But honestly, havent tanked any heroics this tier, someone can probably provide a better cd rotation :P

  4. #4
    Moderator eddytheone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ishmad View Post
    All I know (have downed Tortos 10 Normal) that bats are in many occasions very bugged, taking aggro on anyone.
    They work perfectly fine and will go to whoever is generating most agro on them at the time like any other mob in the game, usually a prot pally if you use one... healers if not and then DPS if they start hitting them too early


    Other than that the only time you should be popping big CD's like Wall / PS / Stand, should be when the stomp and the bats sync so that you have both at the same time which should usually happen around the 6 minute mark if i'm not mistaken

  5. #5
    Hmm...One of the bigger issues is grabbing the bats. They mostly will visit one of your healers. Your best bet is to jump on that healer as they land (if he is to far away) and clap right away. Clapping to early will miss some of the bats and you are screwed. Not sure about heroic mode but afaik in normal mode bats come out every 45seconds.

    That is actually a topic I'm interested in. What is your tactic on grabbing the bats as prot?
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  6. #6
    Stood in the Fire Riemu2k3's Avatar
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    Well, for grabbing the bats we have a hunter who can barrage+md every spawn. Other then that - jump+clap seems the right choice. Don't think grabbing the bats is the most difficult part in heroic as a prot - surviving them is - at least until you have some vengeance for barrier spam.

    @ Eddy: On your first kill, did you tank the bats? Did you really only use big CDs for the Stomp/Bat overlap? I can't imagine I will survive that with my 505 Itemlevel. How much did you have? You have 530 now which is basically, alot :-)

  7. #7
    why not kite them around?
    i did this the first kill with my half bleu geared monk

    blook dk on boss is good selfheal = staking shield
    monk kiting = not needing heal

    the only think is giving healer marks , then the monk can pre spamm the trowing thing on the healers ;X getting agro , running around , saving the roll for the stomp so when you are stunned you have enough space ^^

    my main is a prot warrior with 525 itlvl +/- But just kiting the bats around is just so lame.. so i log on my monk for that fight so we kill him faster and can progress on other bosses :X

  8. #8
    Stood in the Fire Riemu2k3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uselessrouge View Post
    why not kite them around?
    i did this the first kill with my half bleu geared monk
    Hi, I have created another two threads which will answer your question :-)

    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...nking-Problems
    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...eroic-Problems

  9. #9
    Mechagnome Jaja's Avatar
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    I posted in your thread on Monk forums too.

    Basically the problem is the Monk, kiting the bats is pretty straight forward once you get a feel for the timers. Monk can easily kite bats and keep near 100% uptime on crystal shell.

  10. #10
    Moderator eddytheone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riemu2k3 View Post
    Well, for grabbing the bats we have a hunter who can barrage+md every spawn. Other then that - jump+clap seems the right choice. Don't think grabbing the bats is the most difficult part in heroic as a prot - surviving them is - at least until you have some vengeance for barrier spam.

    @ Eddy: On your first kill, did you tank the bats? Did you really only use big CDs for the Stomp/Bat overlap? I can't imagine I will survive that with my 505 Itemlevel. How much did you have? You have 530 now which is basically, alot :-)
    Yeah we did tank them on our first kill and continue to do so, kiting is cheesy:P There should be a video in my comment on the youtube page ^^
    I think I had around 510 at the time, the damage was never particularly high, you just need to make sure that your crystal shield doesn't ever fall off and if it does you need to be ready to heroic throw a crystal with a time stun like capacitor totem or shockwave (although I admit I've never taken it here) or run off and charge the crystal. Shield block is absolute king here, make sure you have it up as much as possible and combine it with a shield barrier just as the stomp is comming

  11. #11
    Stood in the Fire Riemu2k3's Avatar
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    How do you make sure that the Crystal Shell never falls off? There's really nothing you can do about that while you are tanking the bats. Either you receive enough heal, or you don't? Shield Block and Barrier are getting subtracted before that, but if you dont receive enough heals you're fucked. Or am I forgetting something?

    So the best way to handle the Adds then I guess:

    - Fully stacked Shell
    - Pool 120 Rage (glyph)
    - Pop 2x Shield Block shortly before the bats land
    - Jump/Clap them when they land (better yet, have your hunter md you asap)
    - Pull back to Melees so they can cleave them
    - Use Demo Shout / Banner / Last Stand / Rallying Cry on them (whatever is ready but dont stack)
    - Use Shockwave when your shiels is about to be depleted so your healers can heal you back up again
    - Shield Block again as soon as you have enough rage (should be able to extend to a total of 18 sec shield block, about 16 sec of which you are tanking the adds)
    - After that the Bats have to be dead though I guess

    - If a Stomp comes while you're tanking the bats, use shield wall / shockwave / painsup / last stand (whatever is ready at the time) and Shield Barrier
    - If your shell drops while tanking the bats, shockwave them, charge crystal and put a little distance between yourself and the bats so that your shield can recharge

    ---

    Repeat for every Bat spawn

    That sound about right?

  12. #12
    Moderator eddytheone's Avatar
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    You can make sure they dont fall off by communicating with your raid:P Such as calling for externals at the right time, kiting as and when needed or asking for an external stun on the bats

    They should be tanked directly infront of the boss if at all possible so that the turtles you kick in pass straight through them
    As for pooling rage you should do yes, but only pop one charge just as they are getting their first hits off on you for the maximum possible uptime

  13. #13
    I believe you can have a holy pally turn on Righteous Fury to be a beacon of Bat aggro, and then salv him/herself once the bat tank has dropped an aoe on them.

    -=-Sig by Rivellana-=-

  14. #14
    Moderator eddytheone's Avatar
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    Yeah that does work quite well

  15. #15
    I have tanked tortos 10 hc + bats, and I wouldn't recommend it with a 505 ilvl warrior, that's for sure.

    If you are going to tank/kill them, I reckon that you should kite them until a turtle is thrown at them, and then stun them and kill them asap. Trying to keep the shield on two tanks it's not gonna be nice.

  16. #16
    Stood in the Fire Riemu2k3's Avatar
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    Ok guys - thanks alot! I guess I have all the information I need. Maybe this thread will help another warrior tank someday :-)

  17. #17
    Mechagnome
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    If people still have aggro problems on Tortos bats, what prevents tanks swapping just before the bats come? So the one taking bats actually has vengeance to help over aggro if he had none before.

    We did that from the first time we killed the boss on normal after a few aggro wipes and had zero problems ever since on the threat. Granted heroic and normal aren't the same but did they add something else to prevent this?
    Last edited by Kankipappa; 2013-04-09 at 07:59 AM.

  18. #18
    Moderator eddytheone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kankipappa View Post
    If people still have aggro problems on Tortos bats, what prevents tanks swapping just before the bats come? So the one taking bats actually has vengeance to help over aggro if he had none before.

    We did that from the first time we killed the boss on normal after a few aggro wipes and had zero problems ever since on the threat. Granted heroic and normal aren't the same but did they add something else to prevent this?
    Nope, you can easily do this however I would say it should only really be for a DPS gain on the bats
    You really shouldn't be having agro issues with them at all and if you are I would begin to worry : >

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by eddytheone View Post
    Nope, you can easily do this however I would say it should only really be for a DPS gain on the bats
    You really shouldn't be having agro issues with them at all and if you are I would begin to worry : >
    20-30k vengeance versus 100k something, my monk co-tank just kegmash/whirl through them once and tidyplates goes crazy. Problem for us was: that monk couldn't handle them, he has slightly above the required hp treshhold in his regular setup (agi flask, dps trinkets, dps oriented gems) and kiting didn't allow him to many errors (two in a row?) over a period of ~ 8 minutes so we just ended up killing them.

    I use heroic leap glyph to catch them, shockwave* for the initial burst aggro (if you hit at least three targets it will be avaible every single time - else ask for an aoe stun from someone else to get things under control) and thunderclap + revenge tabbing as much as possible. We have no misdirect or tricks in our raid so my cotank still has to wait a few globals before he can assist on damaging it down.

    The first few minutes are the hardest, you'll want your bigger cooldowns (+externals) for this situation (bats still alive + stomp). Later on you'll have turtles to spare and can shoot them through the bats into the boss providing a huge damage boost.

    * this might be counter productive when i think about it, when they can't hit me (due to being stunned) i can't get more vengeance... but i like the control especially when things get messy and i can stun them right on a stomp so i don't get squished

  20. #20
    Mechagnome
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    Quote Originally Posted by eddytheone View Post
    Nope, you can easily do this however I would say it should only really be for a DPS gain on the bats
    You really shouldn't be having agro issues with them at all and if you are I would begin to worry : >
    Not really sure it's only our tanks, since I've had threat issues on my warrior since wrath. Even at current LFR's I just have to slack for a moment before I hit my cooldowns because I would steal tank aggro too many times (kinda makes the feather trinket now perfect for me). Maybe the average tank just aren't that good.

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