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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by judgementofantonidas View Post
    they are nice looking backs with three stats instead of two, however they are smaller stats each then if it would be just two so the cloaks are not uber.
    Actually, that's not the case. Though it rarely EVER comes up in today's gearing, Blizzard has an item level weight system. The net effect is, you always want an item to have as many stats on it as possible. In the old days, many items had 1,2,3 stats on them. But an item with 4 or 5 or even 6 was always much better, for that reason. When Blizzard wants to "overitemize" an item, they'll do exactly this even now, such as the rogue legendary daggers.

    In any event, an item level 600 cloak is HUGE.


    And, I think, we are seeing the REAL reason behind the item level normalization. Blizzard has been "held back" by pvp in pve for quite awhile. They can't deliver super powerful or interesting pve items if they will be used to destabilize competitive pvp. At the same time, they want to use the same general formula for pvp gear over and over again, so that class performance stays intuitive. With the upcoming patch, Blizzard is doing the following:

    1)- World PvP is thrown under a bus. This has never been balanced, and they are going to dramatically crazify it, with item level 600 cloaks, legendary weapons for all raiders, insane trinkets, etc. The "carrot" for having the best world pvp stuff is going to switch from arena/RBG to heroic raids (and reg mode raids), which is very likely intentional- getting really amazing pve gear is MUCH HARDER than getting really amazing pvp gear- and you can't even WEAR it outside a damned raid. You can be questing around in full raid gear on live, and if you get caught in a shockwave you're just fucking DONE without resilience- raid gear currently feels like "pve instance only" gear. Normally, the only "hard" gear to get in pvp is rating based, which is gone now. This is not to say that a pve player is much better than a pvp player, or any garbage like that- merely that the gear in pve is a huge part of the gated reward, but in pvp it cannot be, or the guy who is on top will be super dominant. If I do double the dps of a rogue in less gear, that doesn't break anything. If I gib everyone in a cheap shot, that does.

    2)- Arenas and Battlegrounds will be, for the first time in WoW history, free of dragonslayer loot. Walk in with that item level 600 cloak to arena? Oh look, it's 496, with a small advantage in secondary stats which will in NO way compare to the pvp power on the conquest cloak (and in fairness, it is probably worse than the 476 honor gear). It'll have the same mainstat and stamina. PvP gear becomes CLEARLY dominant in all manner of rated and even unrated instanced pvp. Anywhere you queue for, everyone will be in gear that looks like this:

    Poor gear- questing shit
    Ok gear- 496 raid gear (ANY raid gear that gets downsized to it)
    Ok-Good gear- 476 pvp gear with enhanced stats
    Strong gear- 483 or 491 stuff from last season
    Real gear- 496 conquest gear

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Gandilf View Post
    Accourding to this http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/...-Music-TCG-Art

    We will be getting an item level 600 back for our troubles in helping Wrathion out.

    As far as I know the current highest item level is 541 and would proberbly be a bit more for Ra-den drops.

    But isn't the jump from 541 to 600 at bit high ? - It's not a new expansion - just a patch.
    the top tier is 549 for 5.3
    the normal version seems to be a 5 ilvl jump, was last patch, meaning 554 for normal, then add 13 ilvls that gives 567 in hc then add a few like TF 575 ish + 8 ilvls with upgrades, maybe that cloak is upgradeable too, and a build up epic for legendary for 17-25 ilvls upgrade
    Quote Originally Posted by Lyeranth View Post
    Why dont we just have thrall and Malfurion whip it out and someone can measure and then we can be done with it.
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  3. #43
    WTB PvP legendaries with a legendary questline.

  4. #44
    Field Marshal Dethlos's Avatar
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    Well seeing that they change their look every time you upgrade them, the final upgraded version should look like this for example!

    http://img844.imageshack.us/img844/4813/spawnk.jpg

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by This Guy View Post
    WTB PvP legendaries with a legendary questline.
    Why? PvP shouldn't be about gear, and top PvPers certainly don't want to be forced into grinding through a legendary questline to remain competitive.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalmah View Post
    Why? PvP shouldn't be about gear, and top PvPers certainly don't want to be forced into grinding through a legendary questline to remain competitive.
    This. Especially when ilvl normalization is there too.

  7. #47
    Bloodsail Admiral Chrispotter's Avatar
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    Normal T16 loot is probably gonna have an ilvl of 548 Hc having an ilvl of 561. Now 561 Thunderforged 2/2 upgraded would be 575. Thats still 25 ilvls below the cloaks!
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  8. #48
    Over 9000! Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    The ilvls may be adjusted. Wait till release.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Annamarine View Post
    Except you cant ignore thunderforged and bliz didnt ignore upgrades. When they talked about why they set look at 522 this their they said they wanted heroic raiders from the last tier to be excited to see normal drops. They will do the same again so at a min they will account for thunderforged since a LOT drops and its not unreasonable to expect most raiders who do HC to have a fair bit by the end of the tier. I would expect the normal loot to start a 554 and go from there.

    They are also lowering the cost of upgrades to make it so you can upgrade every piece. At 500 valor a piece most HC raiders who care about their gear will have a strong mix if 543/549 gear.
    Even starting at 554, a fully upgraded thunder forge heroic item is only hitting 579, thats still 1.5 tiers away from 600.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Gandilf View Post
    Accourding to this http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/...-Music-TCG-Art

    We will be getting an item level 600 back for our troubles in helping Wrathion out.

    As far as I know the current highest item level is 541 and would proberbly be a bit more for Ra-den drops.

    But isn't the jump from 541 to 600 at bit high ? - It's not a new expansion - just a patch.
    Its a 3 patch effort so no, i dont think its too much. You had to do a lot of effort to get it and you will always have the 6 weeks delay in the middle of it to get the 6000 vps, so...

    It would be worthless if it isnt a nice increase in ilvl.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-08 at 01:37 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by nazrakin View Post
    Even starting at 554, a fully upgraded thunder forge heroic item is only hitting 579, thats still 1.5 tiers away from 600.
    21 ilvls is not 1.5 tiers away...

    T14 tier ended with 509 and t15 will end, as you said, at around 579.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by PureGenius View Post
    Slightly annoying and boring that yet again PvPers are going to have to do some PvE roleplay quest line in order to stay competitive. Ilvl 600 is huge to skip over, so don't give me garbage that PvPers don't have to get this.

    Blizz really need to implement a pvp focused questline to go alongside with questlines like these so we can get the same huge ilvl rewards they like to throw around every now and again.
    Yes, they're going to change years of consistency now.

    Ateish, Sulfaras, Thunderfury, etc. all the way up to Fangs...

  12. #52
    High Overlord BellularGaming's Avatar
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    I think this is meant to fulfill the place of a legendary, perhaps heroic 5.4 will be better?

  13. #53
    Wrathion says that he will 'soon be able to add his considerable powers to the cloak' which seems to suggest this epic 600 cloak will turn into a legendary cloak (possibly with some sort of proc or special effect). Maybe you will need to combine your original Sha Gem which is now not used with the Meta Gem from ToT which will possibly not be used, and we don't know if they will make the eye of the black prince usable on weapons from the next tier. Maybe you will just combine all 3 of these to make the cloak legendary, but it will be interesting to see how they will make it so that you don't use the meta anymore (if this is the case). If the meta from ToT is really amazing you might be using it until the end of MoP, even if it means having to keep a heroic ToT helm on to use it.
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  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Crashdummy View Post
    21 ilvls is not 1.5 tiers away...

    T14 tier ended with 509 and t15 will end, as you said, at around 579.
    Perhaps I'm missing something... How is T15 going to end at 579 when the highest ilvl piece of loot (2/2 upgraded, heroic thunderforged, excluding these cloaks) is going to be 549? Nazrakin was positing that Normal T16 would start at 554, and that it will have it's own version of thunderforged items (if normal is 554, heroic would be 567; thunderforged/upgraded would actually land the highest possible ilvl in SoO at 581, I believe).

    Of course, we don't know what the exact ilvls will be until SoO loot hits the PTR months from now, and Blizzard is not exactly known for consistency.

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by This Guy View Post
    WTB PvP legendaries with a legendary questline.
    Here's the thing, quests are basically PvE content, so you can't really have a PvP quest.

    Amazing sig, done by mighty Lokann

  16. #56
    Over 9000! Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venziir View Post
    Here's the thing, quests are basically PvE content, so you can't really have a PvP quest.
    pvp dailies?
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by DanielBrems View Post
    I wish people would stop saying Ra-den item levels are higher. They aren't.
    Sorry. Couldn't find the list of drops from him so just assumed they were as the last boss tends to have a bit higher ilvl drops.

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    pvp dailies?
    Which are still PvE ad most of them require that you kill mobs or loot items, the only thing that makes then even slightly PvP is the fact that they flag you. You can easily complete said dailies without PvP'ing.

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  19. #59
    Can anyone who is arguing in favor of this having anything to do with pvp actually give a fucking reason?

    > No, a pvper won't need this. It's not item level 600, it's item level 496. Just like all the gear you can bring to battlegrounds and arenas.
    > Gear disparity in pvp makes pvp less fun, not more.
    > The epic parts of pvp would be hard to reward with this. No one wants to get a huge boost from doing, for instance, dailies. That, in fact, creates more mandatory dailies, except unlike the normal exaggerated case these really would be mandatory.


    Gear is a pve concept and a pve reward- they whole point of ilvl normalization is to cement this and allow Blizzard to do crazy stuff with pve items that they couldn't do before because it would poop on pvp balance. This lets them sidestep the whole thing. Why would you want them to break this?
    Last edited by Verain; 2013-04-09 at 08:38 AM.

  20. #60
    If we look at the ilvl difference from T14 to T15, we can say that -

    Highest Ilvl in T15 will be 549.
    Normal SoO will be 5 ilvl higher - 554.
    Heroic SoO will be 13 ilvl higher - 567
    Heroic Thunderforged will be 6 ilvl higher - 572
    Heroic thunderforged upgraded items will be 8 ilvl higher - 580

    This is assuming they make it 5 ilvl higher than HC thunderforged, and not HC gear.
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