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  1. #1
    Keyboard Turner Vladimiir65's Avatar
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    Newest Demonology Simcraft?

    i casually wandered over to the simcraft site to see that the new sims had brought demonology's dps up to par with affliction. upon looking at the sim for it, i noticed it used grimoire of sacrifice?? now is that just some weird thing with simcraft and should be ignored, or is that actually a viable (the most viable according to the newest sims) talent build?
    any input on this?

  2. #2
    It's viable with the lei-shen trinket it's the most viable option for multi target fights, i.e. council or megaera (if you really care about numbers on megaera). It's also really good for single target, once people get gear I'm sure a lot more them will switch to sac.
    Last edited by Kink; 2013-04-08 at 04:58 PM.

  3. #3
    Stood in the Fire Paarthurnax's Avatar
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    It even has Demo ahead in 2-target and pure aoe fights using Sac. Did the new version introduce a demo bug?

    Main:Paarthurnax | Alt:Peijing | <Huge in Japan> 14/14H US#16
    “Chaos isn’t a pit. Chaos is a ladder. Many who try to climb it fail and never get to try again. The fall breaks them. And some are given a chance to climb, but they refuse. They cling to the realm, or the gods, or love. Illusions. Only the ladder is real. The climb is all there is.”
    --Littlefinger

  4. #4
    Keyboard Turner Vladimiir65's Avatar
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    thats what im wondering, i always though that it could work with the lei shen trink, but it seems almost too much of an increase

  5. #5

  6. #6
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  7. #7
    Bloodsail Admiral Cebel's Avatar
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    is my simulationcraft.org not updated or am i looking at a different site lol?

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Vladimiir65 View Post
    i noticed it used grimoire of sacrifice?? now is that just some weird thing with simcraft and should be ignored, or is that actually a viable (the most viable according to the newest sims) talent build?
    any input on this?
    With the Lei Shen trinket, sac becomes a viable dps increase on fights were you can achieve 2 full-crit dooms on your targets (like mageara or council) due to the amount of imps you will summon from those dooms.

  9. #9
    It's viable regardless of having two+ targets. It's a significant DPS increase to play Demo for sustained 2+ targets, especially if those targets are not in cleave range and do not support periodic short-lived AoE. The Lei Shen trinket is an absolute must for maximizing your damage, however, but multi-dotting as Demo is very potent even without constant critical dooms. Sacrifice in particular is only really good once you have the UVLS, and I'd argue it's not as good when mechanics exist that work for pets but not guardians.

    Log from this week's Twin Consorts - you'll see I have 22 non-crit doom ticks in here (UVLS didn't love me) - in 517 gear: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/g...619#Kaeldraens - at 154k DPS.
    Last edited by Kael; 2013-04-08 at 08:31 PM.

  10. #10
    Oh, Simcraft, you make me giggle so hard. I'll look at some things and post something constructive after my raid.

  11. #11
    Cute. Herbalism as a profession.

    Real good profile they have there.

    Edit: More I think of it, maybe it is a decent profession. 2880 haste on use, 2 min CD...Syncs with DS / Engy Gloves or Tailoring proc + Zerking/Blood Fury.
    Last edited by Woz; 2013-04-09 at 04:07 AM.

  12. #12
    I think the main reason is the switch to a haste profile, but I find this very interesting.

    I still don't think the general profile with DF and shadoweaving doesn't seem to be working properly though so in actual use I believe demo will be the #1 spec with BiS if this is even close to real.

    Lifeblood + Troll/orc racial + DS + procs with Meta soulfires seems incredibly strong though with this setup.

    something fishy about this though

    firebolt 20667 9.7%
    firebolt 46854 18.1%
    or are those imps really that good on single target? imps also seem to stand for close to 50% of the DF generation.

  13. #13
    The Imp's will be the main source of damage, they are dealing a truckload of damage themselves - each shooting a firebolt for 35k avg's and shooting a total of 10 firebolts each.

    This would put the imp's at roughly 350k damage per spawn, now add into the equation the fact that they generate 50 demonic fury over their full duration (5 per firebolt x 10) and with Doom critting 100% of the time you'll have another imp every 8-9 seconds depending on level of haste.

  14. #14
    2 mil+ Dpet on Imp Swarm? Was 800k Dpet last update. Yes, it swapped to Sac, but Sac wouldn't make that big of a difference. They broke something.

    Also, Herbalism is actually fantastic. Sadly, you can't use it with Engineering, and Engi is far better for many reasons.
    Last edited by Teye; 2013-04-09 at 09:02 AM.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Teye View Post
    2 mil+ Dpet on Imp Swarm? Was 800k Dpet last update. Yes, it swapped to Sac, but Sac wouldn't make that big of a difference. They broke something.
    Could you try to dig down what exactly is going wrong? Maybe sim your own demo lock with fight_style=raiddummy and see how it is behaving on the live servers?

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Teye View Post
    2 mil+ Dpet on Imp Swarm? Was 800k Dpet last update. Yes, it swapped to Sac, but Sac wouldn't make that big of a difference. They broke something.
    Nothing is broken - it was never 800k DPET, it was 1600, and it's now 30% more due to Sac.
    http://wowupgrade.com/ - instant gear comparison for all classes / specs

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Teye View Post
    2 mil+ Dpet on Imp Swarm? Was 800k Dpet last update. Yes, it swapped to Sac, but Sac wouldn't make that big of a difference. They broke something.
    Or un-broke something, or was higher than 800k previously (I didn't check). In BiS gear, sync'd with Dark Soul (it's delaying it if I'm reading APL correctly, or it tries to Dark Soul if it's going to imp swarm? Assuming the first) - the average sac imp (totaled) does 36,398 per hit - and 5 imps need to do 43,046.26 damage per hit to arrive at 2,152,313 damage per cast of Imp Swarm. I might be wrong, but I think 18,000 mastery would push those imps up to that 43k bar if the first line (average imp hit) is accurate. 5 imps, 10 firebolts - 50 firebolts - totaling over 2.15M damage.

    For reference, 517 gear'd warlock imps resulted in the following from my most recent log on Consorts: Firebolt 28067779 100.0 % 760 24008.2 18246230 197 49855.6 9821549 (24k average non-crit, 49.855 average crit (average 29,329) - to SimC's BiS profile 25.7/53.0/36,398). I don't currently do any fancy play with the imp swarm glyph, but it's on my To Do list.

    What I'm still curious about: the BiS profile seems to mix 535 and 541 gear, when 541 is available for the same item. What?
    Last edited by Kael; 2013-04-09 at 09:41 AM.

  18. #18
    520-5 (not even newest beta) version shows 1.78 million Imp Swarm DpET when it's lined up with Dark Soul. We can try and do some calculations:

    current profile suggests ~40% raid-buffed haste so each Imp Swarm has to give us 2076617*1.5/1.4 = 2224946.8 damage. Which means 2224946.8/5 or nearly 444989 damage per imp or 44499 average damage per firebolt. With 23.22 raid-buffed crit it's 36113.5 non-crit on average. With so much haste we can safely assume that all firebolts are shot during Dark Soul if Imp Swarm is lined up with it. Not unreasonable to get 36k Firebolts from Wild Imps during Dark Soul in T15 heroic gear.

    PS. 2076617 is Imp Swarm DpET in the newest charts, 1.5 is base GCD, 1.4 - raid casting speed (1 + haste).
    Last edited by andgeres; 2013-04-09 at 09:42 AM.

  19. #19
    The interesting thing right now is that the profile would gain a further 4k DPS by using the everlasting affliction glyph. I suspect that means we can further improve on the lei shen trinket logic. Whether we can improve it to the point the glyph wouldn't be an increase, I don't know.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-09 at 11:45 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Mugajak View Post
    or was higher than 800k previously (I didn't check).
    It's easy to retroactively check, since we save a copy of every single new report that's generated. Here's the one with imp swarm but without sac: http://simulationcraft.org/auto/120Warlock/r16175.html
    http://wowupgrade.com/ - instant gear comparison for all classes / specs

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Gobuchul View Post
    The interesting thing right now is that the profile would gain a further 4k DPS by using the everlasting affliction glyph. I suspect that means we can further improve on the lei shen trinket logic. Whether we can improve it to the point the glyph wouldn't be an increase, I don't know.
    It's a 2.58% (5,461) DPS loss in corr/Doom ticks to use EA before counting benefits. If we assume that makes another 8% of Doom ticks crit (cutting more "bad luck" out of the equation), 3.896 more imps spawn, for an average of approximately 39 more firebolts per encounter. That damage, by itself (multiplying by the average imp hit during a fight) is a 2,532 DPS gain. Before counting any possible GCD or fury saved from not needing to cast Doom again or the nearly 200 fury you expect to generate from that, we've nearly halved the DPS loss by making more imps. It's just not surprising, and given that the trinket can very well go longer spells without proccing, I'm not sure the APL can be tweaked to provide higher-than-89.4% crit doom ticks without EA without losing damage.

    I could be wrong here, but any tweaking that gave that result could only barely be edging it out, I think. Better, EA should provide more stable results, by relying on making sure you *always* have the fury and imps you're expecting, rather than hoping you don't encounter bad luck and miss some in return for some extra corr/doom damage.
    Last edited by Kael; 2013-04-09 at 09:54 AM.

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