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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Vladimiir65 View Post
    i agree with what leyl says, its a gain right now to use sac for the most part, so enjoy it while you can, cause a Demonology lock sacrificing its demon seems very counter-intuitive to how the devs would like it to be played. itll get a nerf soon
    Just because you don't like the play style of UVLS in Demo, doesn't mean it's going to get a nerf.

    If they nerf the trinket, they'll be shooting plenty of other classes in the foot and they simply will not take that risk this far in to the tier (guilds are 12/13H with one being 13/13H). If there is any nerf it's going to be a sac nerf and even that I don't see happening.

    GC also said they want warlocks to have more versatility with specs.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Banawani View Post
    Just because you don't like the play style of UVLS in Demo, doesn't mean it's going to get a nerf.

    If they nerf the trinket, they'll be shooting plenty of other classes in the foot and they simply will not take that risk this far in to the tier (guilds are 12/13H with one being 13/13H). If there is any nerf it's going to be a sac nerf and even that I don't see happening.

    GC also said they want warlocks to have more versatility with specs.
    sorry if i wasnt clear. i dont think theyll nerf the trinket, and i like the playstyle with the UVLS trink with demo. i would think a more logical approach (at least in blizzards eyes) would be to nerf Grimoire of Sacrifice for demonology. even if they do, its not going to be much of a damage loss considering using service still does great damage

    Edit: or maybe just reduce the bonus to the wild imps, instead of a nerf across the board to demo sacrifice.

  3. #43
    Are these results accounting for improved casting behaviour from wild imps and doomguard?

  4. #44
    I tried putting the 520-7 APL (modified to my exact toon where applicable) into the 520-6 simcraft since 527-7 isn't out yet. I have a thunderforged normal lei shen trinket with 2pcT15 and 517'ish ilvl. http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Werst/advanced Just copy/paste 7's APL into 6 once you import then just tweak the specifics to your professions, spec, race, etc.

    Its showing a major gain vs the 520-6 APL which is expected. I ran various sac vs service grimoire permutations along with imp glyph vs no imp glyph. Right now sims predict service with imps sync'd to darksoul as still slightly ahead of sac but sac is far closer than it was in past sims. If you don't sync imps with darksoul it predicts its a loss for the glyph in all cases. Possibly with 4pcT15 it will catch up or maybe not till heroic ilvl.

    Also we've been working on h.meg all week and my testing on multi target fights has service being way ahead. Yes 2x autocrit dooms are nice but a double spawn of wyrms vs a service felguard pulls ahead in practice. I did a council fight as sac and came in world 20'something (now in the 40's) and though I played well I know I didn't play perfectly so its clearly strong in certain circumstances. Right now service and sac are close enough you can play whichever the situation and your playstyle prefers. That is actually a really great place for demo to be in.

    Without getting too /tinfoil hat on things I hope GC doesn't nerf sac for demo simply because its now sometimes useable or a legit equal option to service. Keep in mind the bis simC profiles of service felguard vs sac are less than half a percent apart. That is well within the "noise" of RNG and actually really solid balance work by blizz.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Werst View Post
    I tried putting the 520-7 APL (modified to my exact toon where applicable) into the 520-6 simcraft since 527-7 isn't out yet. I have a thunderforged normal lei shen trinket with 2pcT15 and 517'ish ilvl. http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Werst/advanced Just copy/paste 7's APL into 6 once you import then just tweak the specifics to your professions, spec, race, etc.

    Its showing a major gain vs the 520-6 APL which is expected. I ran various sac vs service grimoire permutations along with imp glyph vs no imp glyph. Right now sims predict service with imps sync'd to darksoul as still slightly ahead of sac but sac is far closer than it was in past sims. If you don't sync imps with darksoul it predicts its a loss for the glyph in all cases. Possibly with 4pcT15 it will catch up or maybe not till heroic ilvl.

    Also we've been working on h.meg all week and my testing on multi target fights has service being way ahead. Yes 2x autocrit dooms are nice but a double spawn of wyrms vs a service felguard pulls ahead in practice. I did a council fight as sac and came in world 20'something (now in the 40's) and though I played well I know I didn't play perfectly so its clearly strong in certain circumstances. Right now service and sac are close enough you can play whichever the situation and your playstyle prefers. That is actually a really great place for demo to be in.

    Without getting too /tinfoil hat on things I hope GC doesn't nerf sac for demo simply because its now sometimes useable or a legit equal option to service. Keep in mind the bis simC profiles of service felguard vs sac are less than half a percent apart. That is well within the "noise" of RNG and actually really solid balance work by blizz.
    I have #1 all specs rank on council by 30ish k using Sac'd Demo. It definately has a place, but I think it's right where blizzard wants talents to be in. It's not used 100% of the time, but it's also not never used.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Rakaji View Post
    but when those situations come up they have often been short-lived. (See: Arcane Mages with Shard of Woe).
    Uh, what? If I remember correctly it was absolutely ridiculous as arcane so then they nerfed it to half, and then it was still BiS for many many many months. How does this prove your point at all?

    Also, I would like to say that if you think an APL can be improved, try hopping into SimC IRC or making a ticket with your suggested changes. You're hardly helping improve anything by making a thread and complaining that it's not very accurate and hoping a SimC dev with the motivation to change something sees it.
    Last edited by aggixx; 2013-04-14 at 05:55 AM.

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  7. #47
    Brusalk, what are your thoughts for demosac on h.meg (probably also h.jikun)? In testing h.meg service was performing better but I could have just had bad luck w' UVLS procs or was missing something in terms of add damage. (maybe more void ray use?) I don't double dot heads unless I have a UVLS proc in which case I just pop a 2nd doom up for the free imps/fury. Using mannoroth so be able to hit adds without standing too far forward thus risking icing the raid. H.Ji-kun I just don't want to deal with despawning pets...

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Werst View Post
    Brusalk, what are your thoughts for demosac on h.meg (probably also h.jikun)? In testing h.meg service was performing better but I could have just had bad luck w' UVLS procs or was missing something in terms of add damage. (maybe more void ray use?) I don't double dot heads unless I have a UVLS proc in which case I just pop a 2nd doom up for the free imps/fury. Using mannoroth so be able to hit adds without standing too far forward thus risking icing the raid. H.Ji-kun I just don't want to deal with despawning pets...
    I think GoServ or GoSup is best for megaera because add damage will be one of your biggest source of damage in that fight. And you really cant get a good doom on the head you are killing. In single target fights without lot of AoEing GoSac is propably best because your imps will do like 30% of your damage and also generate lot of fury. I would recommend checking specs from top ranked players in WoL and you can see most of them use GoServ in megaera. I also recommend macroing Serv with DS and delay it always for adds!

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Werst View Post
    H.Ji-kun I just don't want to deal with despawning pets...
    Again, this was fixed. I have not had a single issue with pet despawns, including Wild Imps since the PTR.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Teye View Post
    Again, this was fixed. I have not had a single issue with pet despawns, including Wild Imps since the PTR.
    I've tried going with pets as Destro on Ji-kun and my pet despawned when I would fly in the air to go get the Feed Young buff. It wouldn't re-spawn once I hit the ground again either.

    This is recent, like week 2 of 5.2.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by aggixx View Post
    Uh, what? If I remember correctly it was absolutely ridiculous as arcane so then they nerfed it to half, and then it was still BiS for many many many months. How does this prove your point at all?
    You just proved my point entirely for me, actually. They did nerf SoW by half, but for non-healers (namely, Mages. No other DPS could or should have been using that trinket) entirely because it was too good for Arcane, and even then it was still great. If they hadn't done that, that trinket may have continued to be BiS for Arcane Mages all the way til the end of the expansion.

    UVLS is meant to be a DPS trinket though, so they can't just outright nerf it the way they did with SoW. That's be shooting too many other classes that can't game the trinket like we can in the foot. So either they have to just let us have this for the rest of MoP (not unthinkable, since we're more than halfway done with the expansion) or they'll have to change the way Demonology interacts with the crit buff.

    I could go into more detail if your snide "um, what" isn't satisfied yet.
    "And so he spoke, and so he spoke
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  12. #52
    I would think that currently UVLS for Demo is a lot more comparable to postnerf SoW than prenerf. It's very strong to the point where it will be strong going into the next tier but it's not extraordinarily gamebreaking to the point where you're going to be using it forever.

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  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Brusalk View Post
    I've tried going with pets as Destro on Ji-kun and my pet despawned when I would fly in the air to go get the Feed Young buff. It wouldn't re-spawn once I hit the ground again either.

    This is recent, like week 2 of 5.2.

    Which pet? If it was the Imp, did you try hitting Flee right before you jumped off/flew?

    Watch the video of me flying that's in the Demo guide. I did zero pet micro managing, and never had an issue.


    As far as comparing SoW and UVLS goes, UVLS was introduced during the first tier of Cata. They nerfed it so Mages wouldn't be using it for the entire expansion. UVLS might be used next tier (For sure if you're lucky enough to have Heroic/HThunderforged), but then the expansion will be over and it will be replaced while we level to 95. If for some reason its still viable at 95, then it will be nerfed.
    Last edited by Teye; 2013-04-15 at 05:33 PM.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Vladimiir65 View Post
    sorry if i wasnt clear. i dont think theyll nerf the trinket, and i like the playstyle with the UVLS trink with demo. i would think a more logical approach (at least in blizzards eyes) would be to nerf Grimoire of Sacrifice for demonology. even if they do, its not going to be much of a damage loss considering using service still does great damage

    Edit: or maybe just reduce the bonus to the wild imps, instead of a nerf across the board to demo sacrifice.
    They can't even really do that, because then you couldn't GoSac without that setup as Demo (even though you shouldn't be anyways). GC wants them to be more even, nerfing GoSac would defeat that intention.

    Yeah, it'd probably have to be something with the imps, though they'd have to balance it so that it wouldn't destroy the normal spec.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Teye View Post
    Which pet? If it was the Imp, did you try hitting Flee right before you jumped off/flew?

    Watch the video of me flying that's in the Demo guide. I did zero pet micro managing, and never had an issue.


    As far as comparing SoW and UVLS goes, UVLS was introduced during the first tier of Cata. They nerfed it so Mages wouldn't be using it for the entire expansion. UVLS might be used next tier (For sure if you're lucky enough to have Heroic/HThunderforged), but then the expansion will be over and it will be replaced while we level to 95. If for some reason its still viable at 95, then it will be nerfed.
    Voidwalker/lord. Would respawn and stuff when going to platforms fine. However, going up into the air to get feed young, and then coming back down to the same platform would not make my pet respawn.

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