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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Dragon9870 View Post
    If by "some" you mean "all". It's 1000x more helpful than you know, though Worgen is overall the best.

    Worgen > Human (with a Sword) > Pandaren > Human (w/o Sword) >= Draenei > Gnome (Arcane) > Dwarf > Gnome (Fire/Frost) > NElf

    There's the overall order IMO.

    The only problem with Humans this tier is that there ARE no spellswords
    There is....it just has spirit on it.

    If you were worried about min/max for race, you'd be troll this tier. Like others have said, pick something you think looks fun. There's so much RNG in dps these days, it's not going to matter. Frankly I love draenei cast animations on my shaman, my worgen lock is just weird looking, lol. My mage is human. It was my bank alt and I decided to level/gear her for raiding back in Cata.
    Last edited by Sakamae; 2013-04-10 at 05:32 PM.

  2. #22
    Elemental Lord Polarthief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sakamae View Post
    There is....it just has spirit on it.

    If you were worried about min/max for race, you'd be troll this tier. Like others have said, pick something you think looks fun. There's so much RNG in dps these days, it's not going to matter. Frankly I love draenei cast animations on my shaman, my worgen lock is just weird looking, lol. My mage is human. It was my bank alt and I decided to level/gear her for raiding back in Cata.
    Oh, sorry. We're Mages, so I left out irrelevant garbage

    No, you'd be troll pretty much every tier, but the OP said alliance. Worgen is really ahead, especially for Fire. Human with a Spellsword (Loshan from Tsulong) is really good too; better than Draenei because they both get 1% Hit (1% Expertise), but the human trinket helps a LOT more than one would think. I use that pretty much 10 times a day when I do my daily stuff (dailies, old raids, etc), and at minimum in raids, once a boss (some exceptions). Pandaren is okay, but isn't that great. Anything else and you clearly don't care about min-max at all.

    I would be a Worgen (which I was during Cata), but I can't stand their animations. I stomached it for a month before I couldn't take it anymore.

    Progression pre-nerfed: [T17] 6/7H; 0/10N

  3. #23
    Warchief Akraen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragon9870 View Post
    Oh, sorry. We're Mages, so I left out irrelevant garbage

    No, you'd be troll pretty much every tier, but the OP said alliance. Worgen is really ahead, especially for Fire. Human with a Spellsword (Loshan from Tsulong) is really good too; better than Draenei because they both get 1% Hit (1% Expertise), but the human trinket helps a LOT more than one would think. I use that pretty much 10 times a day when I do my daily stuff (dailies, old raids, etc), and at minimum in raids, once a boss (some exceptions). Pandaren is okay, but isn't that great. Anything else and you clearly don't care about min-max at all.

    I would be a Worgen (which I was during Cata), but I can't stand their animations. I stomached it for a month before I couldn't take it anymore.
    Do I need to link this to you again?
    http://www.wow-heroes.com/character/...rmrage/Akraen/

    And I do mechanics, I don't just sit there and nuke like those morons in Taiwan that pop raid CDs and ionization to pad. It's posts like yours that perpetuate the misery in the game, preventing people from having fun and not being accountable for how they play, instead blaming it on a spec or race.

    I'd also like to point out Leviatron and I seem to be the only mages balancing mastery and haste at the 18th NT plateau. If results disprove the "math" then the "math" is flawed.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Akraen View Post
    SNIP
    You hit the nail on the head. Using proper CD management and rotations are going to make up the vast majority of your damage. Making good decisions will lead to good dps. Period. You will do more damage if you set up your character correctly with itemization and races but in reality good players make correct decisions and execute mechanics properly. Test out the suggestions put forth in these threads and use your own judgement to see if they are correct. If people would stop obsessing over simulation results for races/gemming and focus on actually testing DPS rotations/stat allocation personally they would see more benefit to their play. Even if the math turns out correct you will have a better understanding of the class and be able to make more informed judgments on controversial topics. You can use the simulations as a starting point but everyone likes to boil it down to the final result and take it as canon. For example optimizing the UI for better information display will bring a nice DPS boost. But no one talks about that aspect of the game as much as which race will give you that .5% more dps.

    I guess its just like everything else in the world: I didn't do well because of external factors. My own actions had no effect.
    Last edited by Proakryt; 2013-04-11 at 08:58 PM.

  5. #25
    So if you want your race to last long and through patches you wanna go panda, if you are gonna race change with every patch to the best one then go Worgen.
    Also depends on what you play if you're fire then Worgen is the best but panda is a close second and arcane and frost panda is better too.
    However since fire isn't the only spec then theres probably a case that in 5.4 we might have to play arcane or frost and then Panda will be better. It's up to you but if you don't wanna change much and you are for PvE then Pandaren is the way to go.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Akraen View Post
    Do I need to link this to you again?
    http://www.wow-heroes.com/character/...rmrage/Akraen/

    And I do mechanics, I don't just sit there and nuke like those morons in Taiwan that pop raid CDs and ionization to pad. It's posts like yours that perpetuate the misery in the game, preventing people from having fun and not being accountable for how they play, instead blaming it on a spec or race.

    I'd also like to point out Leviatron and I seem to be the only mages balancing mastery and haste at the 18th NT plateau. If results disprove the "math" then the "math" is flawed.
    You should stop linking these. You do mechanics ? With 82.6% dmg done to Horridon and 62% to Tortos. You are a prime example for number padding, but i guess you can get away with it as a gm.

  7. #27
    Mechagnome jtmzac's Avatar
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    Contrary to what it looks like he's actually just multi-dotting.(tortos is a bit different since he's probably using frozen orb + bats to use a heap of FoF procs on the boss and multi-dotting)

    Its very possible to do while performing mechanics and since NT is an instant it just gives you more mobility.

    High dps ranks are very often achieved by people killing bosses on farm and a little padding is perfectly acceptable. I'm referring to things you can do yourself to increase your dps not when whole raids focus on getting the one person a high rank.
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  8. #28
    High Overlord Zardox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akraen View Post
    I hold these ranks as a night elf:


    Race doesn't matter.
    This is factually wrong. As a Night Elf you trade either 300 int, 1% hit, 1% exp or 1% crit for... 2% dodge? Unless you share some of those Shadowmeld secrets that argument isn't worth much. Having good ranks doesn't necessarily mean you've min/maxed everything you could, literally every single other Alliance race is better than Night Elf for DPS.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by arizonapriest93 View Post
    Worgen get 1% crit which is equal to 600 crit rating, and as we know from gemming 2 crit > 1 int therefore 600 crit > 300 int.
    Maxdps.com says 600 crit is better for Fire Mages, but for the other Specs not so much and Pandas would pull ahead.
    Also someone in the Blizzard Forums said that Gnome is best for Arcane, and I think it definitely is if you happen to wear a dagger.


    That is for Target Dummies of course, I believe in real PvE Raids Worgen is best because you can Darkflight to your next location and start DPS again quicker.

    For PvP, I think the Trinkets became pretty competetive and so the Draenei Heal is good too, not just Human Racial. You can benefit from it on your own a lot with Iceblock, allowing its ticks o heal you, or you can heal your friends if they are under pressure.
    Last edited by Fincher; 2013-07-13 at 08:23 PM.

  10. #30
    Raiding heroics as Alliance doesn't mean you completely ignore min/maxing because Horde racials are better. You can, sure, but a lot of us still want to maximize damage while staying loyal to our guilds that happen to be on Alliance-side. Those are the boundaries we've set. Worgen's best for Fire. Panda for Arcane/Frost.

  11. #31
    I fail to see how linking normal mode ranks give anyone any reason to believe that racials don't matter.

  12. #32
    Bloodsail Admiral Frost1129's Avatar
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    For an individual, racials really don't matter for Alliance (For horde...berzerking OP. I think every DPS in my guild is troll). The swings you get in DPS are probably not going to suddenly get way better or more consistent because you have 1% more crit, or 300 more int.

    For an entire raid, it'll be more pronounced. If just one dude does have 300 int, whatever. But if an entire raid is lacking int or crit you're going to be doing less DPS (How much less or if it's significant, I dunno).

    If you care about min/maxing on a personal level, then yes, racials matter. If your raid is a more hardcore progression guild with goals of server firsts and high US / EU rankings then yes, racials matter.

    If you're not doing those things then really it's insignificant. You'll probably be over-gearing most of the fights by the time you kill them anyways since you're not pushing to down them quickly. You can think of it this way - the best guilds were clearing ToT Heroics at what ilvl? below 520? 300 ints worth of DPS might make or break things there, where you have to be doing everything you can to hit DPS requirments and whatnot. You'll have that extra int in gear by the time less progression oriented guilds get to where they were.
    Last edited by Frost1129; 2013-07-13 at 10:04 PM.

  13. #33
    Warchief Akraen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dabsy View Post
    I fail to see how linking normal mode ranks give anyone any reason to believe that racials don't matter.
    You might want to check the dates on those posts buddy.

    And my point still stands. Now why the hell did this thread get necro'd? This all part of the "Give Akraen an Aneurysm" initiative?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by MrExcelion View Post
    Raiding heroics as Alliance doesn't mean you completely ignore min/maxing because Horde racials are better. You can, sure, but a lot of us still want to maximize damage while staying loyal to our guilds that happen to be on Alliance-side. Those are the boundaries we've set. Worgen's best for Fire. Panda for Arcane/Frost.
    And in my case night elf is best because it is not significant enough of a loss as Alliance to play what I love, and still beat all those shelling out the cash thinking 1% crit is going to make up for their bad UIs and lack of skill.

  14. #34
    Pit Lord Lei Shi's Avatar
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    Fire - Worgen, Pandaren, Human
    Frost - Pandaren, Draenei, Human
    Arcane - Pandaren, Draenei, Human

    Avoid Nightelf, Dwarf and Gnomes at all costs.

  15. #35
    Elemental Lord Polarthief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dabsy View Post
    I fail to see how linking normal mode ranks give anyone any reason to believe that racials don't matter.
    Because someone didn't realize this is a 3-month necro thread. I've already reported it, so this thread will probably be locked soon anyway.

    Also, racials don't matter that much unless the choice is Troll. 5% Beast Damage and Berserking is waaaaaaaaaay too good.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lei Shi View Post
    Fire - Worgen, Pandaren, Human
    Frost - Pandaren, Draenei, Human
    Arcane - Pandaren, Draenei, Human

    Avoid Nightelf, Dwarf and Gnomes at all costs.
    Keep in mind that Human is lower w/o a sword on. Gnome isn't that bad assuming you have a sword or dagger, but humans beat them (due to Every Man) with swords.

    Also, these bonuses are quite small. They won't make or break you with the one exception of being Troll over anything else (Berserking and 5% beast damage BEGS to be nerfed)

    Progression pre-nerfed: [T17] 6/7H; 0/10N

  16. #36
    The Lightbringer Razorice's Avatar
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    Pandas are the best choice overall. Pandas are always the best choice overall -.-

  17. #37
    Bloodsail Admiral Frost1129's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akraen View Post
    You might want to check the dates on those posts buddy.

    And my point still stands. Now why the hell did this thread get necro'd? This all part of the "Give Akraen an Aneurysm" initiative?

    - - - Updated - - -



    And in my case night elf is best because it is not significant enough of a loss as Alliance to play what I love, and still beat all those shelling out the cash thinking 1% crit is going to make up for their bad UIs and lack of skill.
    I hadn't noticed how old the other posts were. my bad >.<

  18. #38
    I still don't see many hc ranks :s ergo in my oppinion they are irrelevant.
    Last edited by dabsy; 2013-07-14 at 02:37 PM.

  19. #39
    High Overlord Zardox's Avatar
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    And in my case night elf is best because it is not significant enough of a loss as Alliance to play what I love, and still beat all those shelling out the cash thinking 1% crit is going to make up for their bad UIs and lack of skill.
    How much are your feelings toward Night Elf worth in terms of DPS? How do you measure that? If you truly care about min/maxing, you would disregard your feelings toward a certain race, and pick whatever is best in terms of DPS. I'm not saying that is the best thing to do for everyone, if it devalues your playing experience I would advice against it. However, you should not tell people that race does not matter for DPS when it is factually wrong. It is quite clear OP cares about playing a race that would increase his DPS.

  20. #40
    High Overlord Zardox's Avatar
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    Are you surprised some people are going to question your ranks when you come windmilling in with them like you do? Be very cautious when using ranks to prove a point. Instead of calling us idiots, constructing a proper argument would probably do your case better.

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