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  1. #1

    More One-Shots at LFR, but without becoming wipefests?

    Don't know about you guys.
    But Im most of times tanking the LFR. And it always bring me the joy when I see Durumu Eye-beam oneshots half of the raid. Or Elegon floor kills half of the raid. That's best moment of the boss encounter.
    I wish that Blizzard made abilities of every bosses more "unforgiving". So It can bring me more tears of laughing.

    And it actually makes you pay attention to boss and not faceroll the LFR.

    Wiping 10000 times at Boss is not fun. But Facerolling Bosses not fun neither.
    But why not pick the mid way? Stay Unforgiving abilities, but on same time you won't wipe instantly when 15-20 players just died?

    But with the current players base, and unorganized raids might sound it impossible.
    But I think that this solution might make it different.

    "Upon entering, you will get the new Ability "Battle-Ress-LFROnly". So, everyone can ress each other at every boss encounter." (Maybe add the debuff that when you were battle-ressed, you will do 10 % less dps.)


    What do you think? Won't that make Blizzard give more possibilities to make bosses more unforgiving?
    Hope to see more LFR in future where everyone truly have to pay attention to abilities.

  2. #2
    At first blush, I thought your post was stupid. But reading it more, I think I'd somewhat enjoy that setup. The only downside is people are very bad at even using legitimate battle-res. Well, the only downside apart from the fact that people will be less likely to learn the fight the 'right' way.

    Still, I'd enjoy it probably.

  3. #3
    Scarab Lord MasterOfKnees's Avatar
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    Well, I'm not so certain on the battle-ress part, but I'd like for LFR to be more unforgiving, which is why I love LFR Durumu. It's just a matter of time before people learn how the encounter works anyways, just like with Elegon, and soon we'll be able to 1-shot Durumu every week too. I hope that Lei Shen will be able to kick some ass in LFR too.

  4. #4
    Field Marshal Nayelar's Avatar
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    last week was funny, this week durumu gets killed with 12 people alive without big problems, in 2 or 3 weeks there are just 2 or 3 dead people.
    it's the same pattern as elegon, nowadays "nobody" dies because of the disappearing floor. at first nobody cares about guides in lfr, but in the first week most of the people learn the most important things and from week 2 onward the only reasons for wipes are the ususal: low dps or hps

    edit: i forgot the most important part: no, we don't need lfr only brezz ^^

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by wariofan1 View Post
    Well, I'm not so certain on the battle-ress part, but I'd like for LFR to be more unforgiving, which is why I love LFR Durumu. It's just a matter of time before people learn how the encounter works anyways, just like with Elegon, and soon we'll be able to 1-shot Durumu every week too. I hope that Lei Shen will be able to kick some ass in LFR too.
    Don't you think if they implemented b-ress LFR ability.
    So Jin'rokh can have that lightning ability that everyone has to move out from water when they do. They can make it so that it's always one shot. But still okay since everyone can b-ress each other anyway.

    With that b-ress function, Blizzard can get more freedom of designing the boss without make it every abilities so "DUMBED down".
    Then LFR will become a bit similar to 25 man normal where you have to pay attention. Stack/Spread/Move Out/TauntSwapping will be highly necessity. But if you fail, no worries. You are going to be b-ressed and you can try it again without having frustrating Wipe-fest?

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Zenjie View Post
    Don't know about you guys.
    But Im most of times tanking the LFR. And it always bring me the joy when I see Durumu Eye-beam oneshots half of the raid. Or Elegon floor kills half of the raid. That's best moment of the boss encounter.
    I wish that Blizzard made abilities of every bosses more "unforgiving". So It can bring me more tears of laughing.

    And it actually makes you pay attention to boss and not faceroll the LFR.

    Wiping 10000 times at Boss is not fun. But Facerolling Bosses not fun neither.
    But why not pick the mid way? Stay Unforgiving abilities, but on same time you won't wipe instantly when 15-20 players just died?

    But with the current players base, and unorganized raids might sound it impossible.
    But I think that this solution might make it different.

    "Upon entering, you will get the new Ability "Battle-Ress-LFROnly". So, everyone can ress each other at every boss encounter." (Maybe add the debuff that when you were battle-ressed, you will do 10 % less dps.)


    What do you think? Won't that make Blizzard give more possibilities to make bosses more unforgiving?
    Hope to see more LFR in future where everyone truly have to pay attention to abilities.
    Durumu can actually be done with 10+ people dying (assuming it's mostly DPS) to the beam. Durumu LFR is my favourite boss fight in LFR, since it's so easy but still so many fail. :P (Coming from someone, who exlusively does LFR)

    I just think one shot moves should be made more obvious in LFR mode.
    Durumu is pretty clear, Elegon was a bit stupid in that regard.
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  7. #7
    I just think one shot moves should be made more obvious in LFR mode.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Reyzzz View Post
    I just think one shot moves should be made more obvious in LFR mode.
    What is more obvious than a giant fucking laser?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bladeface View Post
    a fear is not a stun. a stun is a stun. they are 2 different things. you mean CC(Croud Control)

  9. #9
    Refreshing to see a post that actually understands the new LFR, and not living in the DS-roflstomp days. The new LFR (as in everything that has come in MoP) is so much more challenging, you can actually wipe now. Sure the determination buff makes the encounter easier over time, but the encounters still punish players that mess up and hopefully they will learn from their mistakes.

    The Battle Res idea is not actually not that bad, they should at least remove the limit on the amount of BR's you can use.

  10. #10
    1. People would not use this, save maybe healers, because anything that takes away from their mindless tunnel visioning of the boss single target to attain that 30k dps is bad. These are not the people using CDs to mitigate or save themselves, why the hell would they res another player...

    2. Most people just want to do the darn bosses and get out. Let them learn "hard" tactics with their guilds or with pugs in their own time.

    3. Why do a segment of the wow population have this fascination with "teaching" unskilled or lazy players to be better for your own amusement? You interact with them like what... once a week?

    Please get over the fact that some people are just not good at wow, or are lazy as hell, and they will be in your LFR slowing you down. Forcing them to die repeatedly will only slow down the process.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Apoulsen View Post
    What is more obvious than a giant fucking laser?
    Not the laser, but on which side you are supposed to be.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by quikbunny View Post
    Refreshing to see a post that actually understands the new LFR, and not living in the DS-roflstomp days. The new LFR (as in everything that has come in MoP) is so much more challenging, you can actually wipe now. Sure the determination buff makes the encounter easier over time, but the encounters still punish players that mess up and hopefully they will learn from their mistakes.

    The Battle Res idea is not actually not that bad, they should at least remove the limit on the amount of BR's you can use.
    Woa, spot on.
    Remove the "B'ress limit for LFR only"
    I like that idea. But maybe still too dependent on few classes that can do B-ress. Every class should have one.
    Then we might maybe see more PuG's for older normal raids forming since it will become less wipe-fests since everyone can ress each other and adapt from their mistakes before.

  13. #13
    Bloodsail Admiral Pencil's Avatar
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    It's lfr. If I want more difficult I go to normal. If I want hard I go to heroic.

    Neither of the settings need to be changed now.
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  14. #14
    Well last time i was durumu lfr 15(!) people died at the first eye beam.
    After the second eyebeam we were only left with me(hunter) another hunter and a tank and a heal...
    Tank died at 0,5% boss hp so we were 3 people standing only in a 25 man group lfr.
    And it was with 4 stacks of: LOLZ U FAILED as well.

    OT: i like the GTFO OR U DIE mechanics, even in lfr, since they are SO FREAKING OBVIOUS. They removed the lethal aspect of the stone breath in lfr, since noobs/trolls could f*ck the boss up super hard, but a charging laser that takes like 15 seconds to even do anything? I'm sorry, but if you die on that, you deserved it!

  15. #15
    Moderator Nobleshield's Avatar
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    I maintain one of the major issues with LFR is that if the mechanics are declawed too much, you don't learn. If you're a returning player, say, and you are gearing up with LFR, you're also using it to get at least somewhat familiar with the fights in preparation for normal mode; you won't learn everything there is, but you won't be going in blind when you first set foot in normal mode.

    Unfortunately, when you have mechanics that are key on normal but are ignored on LFR (e.g. Overload, or back in DS Ultraxion's Hour of Twilight) there's a fundamental problem because when some of those LFR people go into normal mode they ignore the mechanics and die. The mechanics should certainly be more forgiving, but shouldn't be ignorable so people can learn "Don't stand in the laser" or "OT taunts the boss at X".
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  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Nayelar View Post
    last week was funny, this week durumu gets killed with 12 people alive without big problems, in 2 or 3 weeks there are just 2 or 3 dead people.
    it's the same pattern as elegon, nowadays "nobody" dies because of the disappearing floor. at first nobody cares about guides in lfr, but in the first week most of the people learn the most important things and from week 2 onward the only reasons for wipes are the ususal: low dps or hps

    edit: i forgot the most important part: no, we don't need lfr only brezz ^^
    My strategy for LFR bosses like Elegon or Durumu is simply not do them when they first become available, but wait a few weeks. It's not like I'm in some desperate race to maximize my gearing rate in order to keep my raid spot, after all.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-14 at 01:06 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Arothand View Post
    I maintain one of the major issues with LFR is that if the mechanics are declawed too much, you don't learn.
    Learning is not the primary purpose of LFR.
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  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post

    Learning is not the primary purpose of LFR.
    The primary purpose is, in essence, to have fun. Of course.

    Doing mechanics at least semi-correctly should be part of that equation, I would think! Otherwise we might as well just have the test dummies spit out loot once you've auto-attacked them long enough.

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  18. #18
    Moderator Nobleshield's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Learning is not the primary purpose of LFR.
    I didn't say it was. However, the fact you're doing a declawed version of the fight should teach you something about the normal version of the fight, even if it's only the basics. Often though LFR doesn't even teach that and you can ignore almost all or all the mechanics of the fight. That's wrong no matter how you slice it.
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  19. #19
    Well, gotta find joy somewhere if you do something you don't like, such as in my case LFR, so yes, oneshots (falling floor, beams, knockbacks into the abyss...) is highly entertaining. We used to place bets on how many people would die on Hagara, and later Elegon.

    The thing with LFR is, anything can be a wipefest, but different things will be different causes of wipes for different groups. I left a group for the first time ever because we were wiping on tortos because tanking bats was not high on the priority list and I didn't want to know how other bosses would turn out if tortos was an issue. In the next group however we wiped simply on the enrage of tortos (not kidding, and no, this time I sat the whole run out even though it took me a good hour to finish). And so on. Keeping that in mind, it's difficult to make "unforgiving" mechanics, because one mechanic can be unforgiving for one group while another is for the next.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-14 at 06:46 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Arothand View Post
    I didn't say it was. However, the fact you're doing a declawed version of the fight should teach you something about the normal version of the fight, even if it's only the basics. Often though LFR doesn't even teach that and you can ignore almost all or all the mechanics of the fight. That's wrong no matter how you slice it.
    That's not entirely the case though. If everyone ignores mechanics, 9 out of 10 times, it will be a wipe. Ji-Kun is the most recent and clear example of this, but it also applies to Horridon, Elegon, Emperors, Garalon, etc. In most cases however it's sufficient if just a few people do the mechanics. It's unrealistic to expect a random group, where the average skill WILL be lower than what you'd take for your own pugs, to co-operate succesfully and without frustration while everyone in the group does their job properly. That's why, likely, in my experience, LFRs later in the week are so desperately bad, because main raiders have already done it and aren't queuing for valors or whatever else they're doing. I avoid queuing alone for that reason too, at least with guildies we can do what must be done, kite garalon (and heal the kiter), do nests, etc. If people aren't interested to learn more about mechanics, no amount of forcing will make them, and there'll always be the few people who carry the rest. When those people are absent, it's either a disaster or it takes forever, as yet another thread on official forums showed us. I understand many people have an issue with the concept, but it's not possible to make LFR the quick experience for casuals it is today otherwise.
    Last edited by Cirque; 2013-04-14 at 04:49 PM.

  20. #20
    The way Durumus maze spawns is an extremely unclear mechanic, and that is why it's stupid to put it into LFR. I wonder how many people go into LFR, get absolutely destroyed on that phase and have no idea what is going on. There is no logic in what you are supposed to do to not get completly boxed in by eyesores. It's the type of convoluted bull that basically forces people to read out of game material to understand what to do.

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