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  1. #21
    Dreadlord zenga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob6875 View Post
    Why does it matter? A shaman having armor is about as important as a mage or warlock having it. Unless you are pvping it doesn't matter what weapon type you use..
    There are a couple of fights that come to mind where the damage is physical. Grand Empress hard mode comes to mind. Switching an offhand there for a lower ilvl shield increased my survivability a lot. However I played with a 522 staff until I got a decent replacement this tier, and if there is a hard hitting physical boss ability I just did a macro weapon swap.

    i.e. a shaman should have a shield in this backpack to swap to on progression

  2. #22
    Mechagnome
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    Hold on before you all start yelling "21 DECEMBER!" or something similair. There is indeed nowhere being said what version is being dropped where. It may just be that the LFR version was being dropped in the heroic version.

    This is why I already requested for something more like Technical Patch Notes, as the ones we have today provide little to no information.
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  3. #23
    Good thing I got mine on my shaman last week. Yes, I use a staff. Only when it's better than my weapon/shield. Since I am not so lucky on shield drops (I still have a shield from heroics), the staff is superior. Once I get a shield out of ToT, then I will go back to weapon/shield. And still be the proud owner of an awesome staff.
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  4. #24
    I'm much more interested in
    "During the Primordius encounter, spells which dispel a single harmful effect (Sear Magic, Single Magic, or Mass Dispel) will no longer work if any of the positive effects are active on the target (Improved Synapses, Keen Eyesight, Thick Bones, Clear Mind, or Fully Mutated)."

    Doesn't this mean you're now screwed if you accidentally get a negative debuff?

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by rewn View Post
    Just because they removed one staff from our loot table doesn't mean they don't want us using staffs at all. Considering, if you include trash/shared boss loot, that Elementals have access to over 10 weapons available to them this tier, and with the release of the next raid wing in lfr soon, they will finally have access to them all, it could well be that they are simply trying to reduce the clutter a wee bit for lfr raiders, since getting a weapon when you already have one is already frustrating enough, never mind a possibly worse item.
    None of the other staffs that drop are on the loot table for shamans, eg. Horridon and Twin Consorts staffs, supposebly a gm said they are on the loot tables but I didn't see anything about it in the hotfix thread (not sure why they would update the lastest change and not do it to the other staves) - guess will have to take his word for it.

  6. #26
    I'd guess the staff is going because Shaman aren't supposed to use them (always been a shield+1H user myself) and that boss already drops a 1H mace.

    As for Ra-den, maybe everyone was waiting for all CDs to be ready for each try, and that's a pretty long one. Not been killed yet, so maybe they're trying to get somebody to kill it without a "proper" nerf.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by jonny888 View Post
    I'm much more interested in
    "During the Primordius encounter, spells which dispel a single harmful effect (Sear Magic, Single Magic, or Mass Dispel) will no longer work if any of the positive effects are active on the target (Improved Synapses, Keen Eyesight, Thick Bones, Clear Mind, or Fully Mutated)."

    Doesn't this mean you're now screwed if you accidentally get a negative debuff?
    It does mean that, if you get negative debuff, you can only use abilites which dispell ALL magic debuffs, so both ur possitive and negative debuffs will be dispelled.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by EruptorNZ View Post
    None of the other staffs that drop are on the loot table for shamans, eg. Horridon and Twin Consorts staffs, supposebly a gm said they are on the loot tables but I didn't see anything about it in the hotfix thread (not sure why they would update the lastest change and not do it to the other staves) - guess will have to take his word for it.
    If the other staves aren't available to shamans via RF or bonus roll then I fail to see the big deal about them removing the last one from them as well. If anything that makes much more sense as they were just tying up a loose end. And again, even without the staves, there are still 7 weapons available for shaman, at least 3 from each boss (dagger, mace and 2h mace all from shared loot). I'd say we're not really in a position to argue about weapon availability

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmist View Post
    I'd guess the staff is going because Shaman aren't supposed to use them (always been a shield+1H user myself) and that boss already drops a 1H mace.
    However, excluding caster shamans from staves makes them the most limited caster in the game in terms of weapon availability.

    Excluding the flavor items such as caster axes, 2H maces, or fist weapons--
    http://www.wowhead.com/items=2.0?fil...Bcrs=1%3Bcrv=0
    http://www.wowhead.com/items=2.5?fil...Bcrs=1%3Bcrv=0
    http://www.wowhead.com/items=2.13?fi...Bcrs=1%3Bcrv=0
    --leaves shamans with daggers and 1h maces. And that's it.

  10. #30
    Ele & Resto Shammy not using Staves? news to me, in fact, I've seen a couple of Shaman running around with that 2H Intellect Mace.
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  11. #31
    "Armor does nothing major for shaman"

    Are you god damn serious? Do you realise that the most AE dmg in ToT which kills you, eg on Horridon HC is physical damage? Whereas other classes like Warlocks (passive -10% dmg and +10%) have passive mitigation, we'll relly on armor as dmg reduction, even in PvE.

    The only concern is, that they remove OPTIONS from us getting that staff if you're unlucky like me and still running around with Will of the Emperor mace........ -________- and an usual offhand, not a shield.
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  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aratra View Post
    However, excluding caster shamans from staves makes them the most limited caster in the game in terms of weapon availability.

    Excluding the flavor items such as caster axes, 2H maces, or fist weapons--
    http://www.wowhead.com/items=2.0?fil...Bcrs=1%3Bcrv=0
    http://www.wowhead.com/items=2.5?fil...Bcrs=1%3Bcrv=0
    http://www.wowhead.com/items=2.13?fi...Bcrs=1%3Bcrv=0
    --leaves shamans with daggers and 1h maces. And that's it.
    Except they aren't limited at all. We can still use staves, just can't obtain them via lfr or bonus rolls. And really, who cares if besides that and your claimed flavor items that we can only use maces and daggers? The majority of caster weapons end up becoming one of those anyway. Infact lets look at this tier.

    We have :-

    Fist Weapons
    - Amun-Thoth, Sul's Spiritrending Talons

    Daggers
    -Athame of the Sanguine Ritual
    -Nadagast's Exsanguinator
    -Ritual Dagger of the Mind's Eye

    Maces
    -Torall, Rod of the Shattered Throne
    -Jerthud, Graceful Hand of the Savior

    2H Maces
    -Invocation of the Dawn

    Swords
    -Soulblade of the Breaking Storm

    Wands
    -Venomlord's Totemic Wand

    Staves
    -Dinomancer's Spiritbinding Spire
    -Giorgio's Caduceus of Pure Moods
    -Suen-Wo, Spire of the Falling Sun

    12 items total available. Out of the 12, we can use 10, but can only obtain 7 from bonus rolls. Mages and warlocks on the other hand, can only use 8 and obtain 8 from bonus rolls. Priests can use 9 and obtain 9 from bonus rolls. Boomkins can use 11 and obtain 11 from bonus rolls. If we take away the "flavor items" we can still use 8 and obtain 5 from bonus loot rolls. So even removing the items you consider flavor only, we are on par with warlocks and mages on the number of weapons we can actually use.

    In short, we're far from being the most limited. We can still use staves. This change only prevents us obtaining them from an otherwise already bloated loot table on bonus rolls only.
    Last edited by rewn; 2013-04-09 at 11:51 AM.

  13. #33
    Mages and Warlocks cant obtain the spirit sword via LFR or mogu rune. Wasted weapon drop for raids without a holy paladin.. :>
    Most people do not realize the talent and skill it requires to be in a top guild. Many of you think its only about time invested, but that couldn't be further from the truth.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by UcanDoSht View Post
    Mages and Warlocks cant obtain the spirit sword via LFR or mogu rune. Wasted weapon drop for raids without a holy paladin.. :>
    I completely overlooked the spirit on that one, thanks for the heads up xd

    That gives mages and warlocks one less item to hope for, putting us ahead of them at the very bare minimum.

  15. #35
    Legendary! Treelife's Avatar
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    Weird change, I have it on my Shammy. It was an upgrade, it's pretty good - why not?

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by rewn View Post
    Except they aren't limited at all. We can still use staves, just can't obtain them via lfr or bonus rolls. And really, who cares if besides that and your claimed flavor items that we can only use maces and daggers? The majority of caster weapons end up becoming one of those anyway. Infact lets look at this tier.

    We have :-

    Fist Weapons
    - Amun-Thoth, Sul's Spiritrending Talons

    Daggers
    -Athame of the Sanguine Ritual
    -Nadagast's Exsanguinator
    -Ritual Dagger of the Mind's Eye

    Maces
    -Torall, Rod of the Shattered Throne
    -Jerthud, Graceful Hand of the Savior

    2H Maces
    -Invocation of the Dawn

    Swords
    -Soulblade of the Breaking Storm

    Wands
    -Venomlord's Totemic Wand

    Staves
    -Dinomancer's Spiritbinding Spire
    -Giorgio's Caduceus of Pure Moods
    -Suen-Wo, Spire of the Falling Sun

    12 items total available. Out of the 12, we can use 10, but can only obtain 7 from bonus rolls. Mages and warlocks on the other hand, can only use 8 and obtain 8 from bonus rolls. Priests can use 9 and obtain 9 from bonus rolls. Boomkins can use 11 and obtain 11 from bonus rolls. If we take away the "flavor items" we can still use 8 and obtain 5 from bonus loot rolls. So even removing the items you consider flavor only, we are on par with warlocks and mages on the number of weapons we can actually use.

    In short, we're far from being the most limited. We can still use staves. This change only prevents us obtaining them from an otherwise already bloated loot table on bonus rolls only.
    They're called flavor items for their rarity, but more specifically, for why they're rare. This is the first we've seen an epic caster 2H mace since Classic, as well as the first time we've seen an epic caster fist weapon ever. Meanwhile, there are a total of three epic caster axes in the game, four if you count a heroic version. Yes, they are flavor weapons, no quotes necessary, much like one would refer to strength fist weapons or polearms. They're rarely seen on boss loot tables because Blizzard doesn't like to implement items that are sharded almost every time they drop. They are occasionally, occasionally added for variety, or flavor, if you will. And more often than not, historically they're typically agility swords, because the design team must just really love creating sword models or something.
    Last edited by AndaliteBandit; 2013-04-09 at 12:32 PM.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aratra View Post
    They're called flavor items for their rarity, but more specifically, for why they're rare. This is the first we've seen an epic caster 2H mace since Classic, as well as the first time we've seen an epic caster fist weapon ever. Meanwhile, there are a total of three epic caster axes in the game, four if you count a heroic version. Yes, they are flavor weapons, no quotes necessary, much like one would refer to strength fist weapons or polearms. They're rarely seen on boss loot tables because Blizzard doesn't like to implement items that are sharded almost every time they drop. They are occasionally, occasionally added for variety, or flavor, if you will. And more often than not, historically they're typically agility swords, because the design team must just really love creating sword models or something.
    And yet, even if you include caster swords (which are becoming just as rare as fist weapons/axes), Warlocks and Mages still have less choice compared to Shaman. That's also true for last tier where we had access to 5 out of the 7 caster weapons available compared to Mages and warlocks being able to use 4 of them (of which one is a spirit dagger which they wouldn't touch, meaning they had more like 3 options). Yes we can't use caster swords and they are stopping us from obtaining staves via bonus rolls, but the maces and daggers we have access to more than make up for that and still provide us a better selection of weapons to choose from than some other casters.

  18. #38
    I got two Jin'ya, Orb of the Waterspeaker from LFR with my shaman.

    This is bullshit, simple as that.

  19. #39
    Pit Lord Eliot123's Avatar
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    Removing the staff from shaman loot list is stupid.
    We can use staves, but for some reason we can't get this one? The change is especially retarded in LFR context, we're not competing for gear with anyone else. I'd understand if shamans couldn't use staves and it was a bug in the first place but this hotfix is silly, if we had ''too many choices'' maybe they shouldn't have implemented ridiculous items like healing 2h maces.

    If it is a technical bug on the other hand, nvm. >_>
    Last edited by Eliot123; 2013-04-09 at 01:15 PM.
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  20. #40
    Herald of the Titans Seriss's Avatar
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    I guess some people were complaining about getting a staff on their shamy when using a Mogu Rune and hoping for a tier token. *shrugs* I prefer wearing a shield myself. There's a fair bit of physical damage going on in raids these days.

    Besides, I'd never get a staff over a non-shield-wearer in main-raid as it is for as long as they still need that staff. Not that I'd want a staff anyway though my ele gear had one in it for a long time. I just prefer mainhand + shield unless the staff in question surpasses them greatly.
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