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  1. #1

    Resto Shaman vs. Heroic Lei Shen 25man

    Recently livestreamed our 3rd kill of Lei Shen, for those who are interested and missed it I uploaded the recording to YouTube so that you can get a chance to see how it is to play a Resto Shaman on this encounter. Enjoy!




    If you have any questions, shoot!


    EDIT: Since people have been asking me in pms about the strings for some of the stuff I track on WeakAuras, I uploaded them all to pastebin: http://pastebin.com/u/sonie
    Last edited by fneelis; 2013-04-07 at 02:26 PM.
    Sonie <Method> - Twisting Nether EU
    SonieTV @ Twitter

  2. #2
    Hey Sonie, first off I wanted to say congratulations and good job this tier!
    Moving on. What is the reason for getting such crazy amounts of spirit? Is it to boost Mana Tide and let the other healers stand for the higher hps, or do you feel throughput isn't so much of an issue this tier. Perhaps your thoughts were different, if so, please let me know!
    Have a nice evening!

    //Sky

  3. #3
    Atleast in 25mans Spirit is a very valuable stat since it boosts your MTT which benefits 4-5 other healers. And even for personal throughout put it's still a good stat to stack since I can still spam my Mana bar empty if I really want to, and aslong as you can get rid of your mana, spirit is gonna be a good stat.

    But the main reason is for MTT yes, our Mistweaver monk for an example is playing with only 9k spirit and can keep up thanks to my MTT.
    Sonie <Method> - Twisting Nether EU
    SonieTV @ Twitter

  4. #4
    Hey Sonie
    Great job on the tier! I was wondering what raid frames you're using there? Can't tell if Vuhdo or Grid.jpg

    Also, I notice you're using the Stolen Relic trinket. Is that primarily because of the passive spirit? I've not heard good things about the proc, how do you find it?

    Last thing
    The song that starts around 02:40 is awesome, what is it / any chance of a tracklist?
    Last edited by Cartho; 2013-04-07 at 07:57 AM.

  5. #5
    I know it's a very small thing, but wouldn't a spirit chest enchant make more sense for your build than stats?
    What haste breakpoint are you reforging for? Also, why reforging for exactly 50% mastery? I see it in many guides, but no rationalization is ever given.

  6. #6
    The Patient
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    Quote Originally Posted by xor7486 View Post
    Also, why reforging for exactly 50% mastery? I see it in many guides, but no rationalization is ever given.
    Well, since there is no damage or little damage as in HP drops if you are with Paladin and Disc priests, Mastery is only effective below a certain amount of % of your targets HP. Which was around 70% if i'm correct. But with the toolboxes from those same paladins and priests, its just a matter of seconds your target is above that amount. Then all that extra Mastery is not that helpful anymore, so it better to increase in crit or haste.

    I hope i answered your question .

    On-topic: Grats and a thanks for the insight from a Resto shammy POV.

  7. #7
    wasn't the MTT fixed to prevent stacking shamans with spirit?

  8. #8
    The Patient
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    Quote Originally Posted by Puhree View Post
    wasn't the MTT fixed to prevent stacking shamans with spirit?
    Well it was nerfed, not fixed. They nerfed it with 50% from 400% increase of spirit to 200% of the casters spirit.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by xor7486 View Post
    I know it's a very small thing, but wouldn't a spirit chest enchant make more sense for your build than stats?
    What haste breakpoint are you reforging for? Also, why reforging for exactly 50% mastery? I see it in many guides, but no rationalization is ever given.
    It's because Mastery has a kind of "soft cap" where it loses alot of effectiveness compared to other stats. This cap is around 50%, which is why you see most shaman hovering around 50% but not going wildly higher or lower.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Cartho View Post
    Hey Sonie
    Great job on the tier! I was wondering what raid frames you're using there? Can't tell if Vuhdo or Grid.jpg

    Also, I notice you're using the Stolen Relic trinket. Is that primarily because of the passive spirit? I've not heard good things about the proc, how do you find it?

    Last thing
    The song that starts around 02:40 is awesome, what is it / any chance of a tracklist?
    I'm using Grid2 with the TukTex textures, which you get when you download Skada I think.(correct me if I'm wrong )

    My trinkets are primarily for the static spirit to boost the MTT, the proc is pretty much useless does around 0.5% - 1.2% off my healing depending on fight. It definitely needs to get buffed slightly in my opinion.

    I listened to one giant mix during that streaming session which can be found here: https://soundcloud.com/3lau/sets/3lau-haus sorry that I can't provide you with the exact name of the tune.

    Quote Originally Posted by xor7486 View Post
    I know it's a very small thing, but wouldn't a spirit chest enchant make more sense for your build than stats?
    What haste breakpoint are you reforging for? Also, why reforging for exactly 50% mastery? I see it in many guides, but no rationalization is ever given.
    In theory it would make more sense to use the spirit enchant yes, but when progressing through new content many of the abilities does close to your full hp in damage. So I prefer getting 80 extra Stamina while at the same time getting 80 Spirit and 80 Intellect, since that can be the difference between surviving.

    There is no hardcap at 50% Mastery, it's just what many Shamans aim for as a softcap since our Mastery isn't that great actually, not many fights where the raid is kept on low hp % so that you can benefit from it. After 50% Mastery and the Haste cap(3764 + bit more to play it safe because of latency in my case) I put the rest into crit since it's a better stat for throughout put.

    Quote Originally Posted by Puhree View Post
    wasn't the MTT fixed to prevent stacking shamans with spirit?
    It was not fixed, only nerfed a bit.
    Sonie <Method> - Twisting Nether EU
    SonieTV @ Twitter

  11. #11
    Man, so damn smooth. This is why Method is the best at the moment!

  12. #12
    Cheers Sonie, I found the name of the tune @2:40 - It's called Cannonball - Showtek.

    All the healing trinkets from 5.2 look pretty bad to me, apart from maybe Horridon's. The Lightning Imbued Chalice from lei Shen looks potentially interesting though.

    What do you think about the 3764 cap? As a Goblin mine is lower but I'm not sure whether, at my gear level, it would be worth shooting for, think I'd lose abit too much crit to get there. I imagine it scales well with the 2 pc bonus though...

  13. #13
    Awesome video, Sonie!

    There's been a lot of grumbling about how poor resto shaman are performing (although I suppose its more directed to the 10 man environment)...do you have the same sentiment? Were you benched for any of the first kills because of throughput issues?

    "There are two types of guys in this world. Guys who sniff their fingers after scratching their balls, and dirty fucking liars." -StylesClashv3
    "Elo Hell is where the Ego is greater than the Elo." -Bystekhilcar

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Toxigen View Post
    Awesome video, Sonie!

    There's been a lot of grumbling about how poor resto shaman are performing (although I suppose its more directed to the 10 man environment)...do you have the same sentiment? Were you benched for any of the first kills because of throughput issues?
    Doubt that this is the case considering he said they dropped priests entirely yet they have highest throughput. These guys have variety of alts and clearly they chose to keep in resto shaman over priests.

    The complaining needs to stop in terms of HPS. Healing isn't about HPS. It's about keeping people from dying, and the nature of that is easy to heal controllable dmg that's of little danger, vs. high danger spike dmg, where resto shamans shine with CDs and utility.

  15. #15
    Great job!

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Cartho View Post
    What do you think about the 3764 cap? As a Goblin mine is lower but I'm not sure whether, at my gear level, it would be worth shooting for, think I'd lose abit too much crit to get there. I imagine it scales well with the 2 pc bonus though...
    Personally, I only went for it after I got my 2set bonus. But as your gear get's better the less crit you will have to sacrifise to get there. As a goblin you will only need 3306(+bit more depending on latecy) in my gear that's something you are very close to already even when trying to get rid of as much haste as possible.

    So I guess it depends how close you are to the haste cap, if you have 2set and what your latency is like.

    Quote Originally Posted by Toxigen View Post
    There's been a lot of grumbling about how poor resto shaman are performing (although I suppose its more directed to the 10 man environment)...do you have the same sentiment? Were you benched for any of the first kills because of throughput issues?
    Personally I believe Shamans need some sort of buff for 10man where you aren't able to use Healing Rain and Chain Heal as efficient. Our healing is still even behind on 25man unless you stack up during the most part of the fights. So I don't wanna imagine playing a Shaman in 10man.

    With that said, Resto Shaman are still a very good class to bring to 25mans because of the utility that we bring, 3x Raid CDs and a Mana Tide(which does A LOT if you stack Spirit like I do).

    I only sat out on Tortos and Dark Animus 1st kill. Tortos just because I knew already from PTR that we were going to be bad for that boss and we had to catch up as quick as possible to Blood Legion as soon as we got there. Dark Animus because it's just a really horrible fight for Shamans in general since everyone is way to spread out and it's a fight where you want to stack Absorbs to survive the Interrupting Jolt that actually did more damage than your health when we progressed on it in the beginning. After 2 days they nerfed the Interrupting Jolt damage, but it was still way more beneficial to stack absorbs.
    Sonie <Method> - Twisting Nether EU
    SonieTV @ Twitter

  17. #17
    Great video, but lets face it if you didn't bring MTT you would be benched for another healer!
    Xaenicael - Marauder - Legions of Lettow
    Xaenicael - Resto Shaman - Bronze Dragon Flight

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Draex View Post
    Great video, but lets face it if you didn't bring MTT you would be benched for another healer!
    As I said in my post above, Resto Shamans are brought to 25mans because of utility which is also why I went all in on Spirit to make my utility better.

    In terms of HPS output Shaman could very much use a buff, atleast in spread out scenarios.
    Sonie <Method> - Twisting Nether EU
    SonieTV @ Twitter

  19. #19
    I am fairly confident something is going to change. The idea of a class being brought solely for one thing is an extremely outdated paradigm now. What concerns me is that they will see how powerful mana Tide is, and just nerf it, without buffing Resto shaman anywhere else. Either that or they will buff in compensation, but it will be yet more un-needed buffs to chain heal and healing rain. What really disturbs me is that, looking at GC's tweets, he seems to be totally ok with Resto Shaman being so weak at spread healing. No other healer class has such a pronounced weakness in my view.

  20. #20
    For those of you concerned about mastery, there is a somewhat mathy but very informative post written by Vixsin on her blog Lifeingroup5.com (link: Can't link since I'm a newbie but the name of the post is "Resto Shaman Mastery - Pandaria style" on the second page). For anyone looking for a great source of Resto Shaman information, this site is second to none.

    Not only do you have to look at the percentage health of the person receiving your heal, but you also have to consider what type of heal it was i.e. single target and can proc ancestral awakening or AoE and cannot. If you don't want to read the whole post, she sums it up nicely at the end: For single target heals, mastery is more valuable than crit when your target is below roughly 43% health. For AoE heals mastery is more valuable than crit when your target is below roughly 65% health. There is no so called "soft cap" for mastery since you have to look at the amount of damage your raid takes. If your healing done breakdown consists mostly of healing rain, chain heal and healing stream totem and these heals hit targets that are below 65% health more often than not, then mastery will be more valuable for you. Measuring the average health of the targets of your heals and which type of heal (AoE or single target) was cast on them is not something that is easy to do. If there is a way to analyze that in world of logs, I would love to know . That being said, I personally go for the 3764 (+ a few) haste breakpoint, then some what of a balance between crit and mastery while favoring mastery a bit. I do this because I raid in a semi hardcore, semi casual (13.5 hrs a week) guild that pushes 25 man heroics. Our raiders aren't as good at avoiding damaging mechanics and using personal cool downs to negate damage as the raiders from Method. Also, our bubble healers aren't as pro. This is why its hard to look at top raiding resto shaman and say "hey, thats how I should reforge and gem." I like to hit the haste threshold then sit between 55-62% mastery with the rest in crit.

    Anyways that's my 2 cents on the matter. Great video, Sonie... Awesome to see a resto shaman PoV on a boss like that. I love how you sacrificed yourself towards the end there and then ankhed up :P

    Next up for my guild is Tortos so I was wondering if you've been in for a kill yet. If so, do you have any pro tips? I'm not sure I'll be in since he does almost completely take our mastery out of the equation but I'd like to be prepared. I'm assuming you drop a healing rain on melee then spam single target heals/ riptide since chain heal will be mostly useless.

    Thanks again and I'll be looking forward to a Ra Den kill video when you guys get it soon!

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