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  1. #1

    Best dueling class atm?

    Just as the title says, what is the best dueling class atm, and of course WHY! Come with all the information and opinions that you can!

    Discuss!

  2. #2
    Hard to say which one is THE best, as they all counter each other. If I had to give an answer I would go for warlocks, either Destro or Demo. Both spect has the ability to CC for an extended peroid of time ( Fear ) Along with lockouts, stuns, silences horrify etc. And they also posses amazing burst, healing abilities ( even if those are limited, in a duel, they are considered overpowered ) and defensive CDs that rivalise tank's defensive CDs.

    That all packed up. It all depends on what you fight, but after what I have seen on live a warlock is almost unkillable if he uses his defensives right. And on top of that he will slowly kill someone if that person cannot heal him/herself. Rogues and warriors may be able to fight the warlock but locks use double portal its game for the warrior.

    Im still not sure of how rogues are doing, apparently they can kill a T2 ret paladin in a dance if he doesnt trrinket or bubble, but warlocks takes less damage than paladins anyways. So yep, thats all I had to say.
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  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Sheerzo View Post
    Just as the title says, what is the best dueling class atm, and of course WHY! Come with all the information and opinions that you can!

    Discuss!
    Demo lock and BM hunter. The only thing that should beat those two is another Demo Lock or BM hunter. Funny how the two heaviest pet classes are the top.

    Just a side thing i found out while dueling a few demo locks, Imps usually comprise of about 40% of the demo locks damage.

  4. #4
    Yup my money is on lock, hunter then windwalker, in that order I can handle most classes fine on my windwalker (fear break, damage reflect, 8sec op silence, mobility, ranged disarm, pet, selfheals) but hunters destroy me. I haven't seen any hunter/lock duels, they always seem to be trying to duel other classes

    ---Edit---

    "Im still not sure of how rogues are doing, apparently they can kill a T2 ret paladin in a dance if he doesnt trrinket or bubble, but warlocks takes less damage than paladins anyways."

    Pure DPS classes (mage/warlock/hunter) cope fine with rogues and I'm positive that every other DPS class that blows their CDs will kill a ret unless he trinkets/bubbles.
    Last edited by Dcruize; 2013-04-09 at 04:10 PM.
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  5. #5
    Mechagnome
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    warlock or ww monk

  6. #6
    Moderator Nicola's Avatar
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    How exactly is Demonology a good dueling class? Their mobility is nerfed pretty hard, their damage got nerfed pretty hard and their defensive cooldowns rather suck due battle fatigue right now. If you survive the initial chaos waves and imp swarm, you have to do your best to not win. :/
    And just saying it because I saw someone mentioned it, but double portal is no longer possible.

    I'd say that currently sub rogues, frost mages and bm hunters are king when it comes to dueling.
    I'd say this is for mainly 4 reasons, namely:
    • A lot of control
    • Very high survivability in 1v1 fights
    • Extremely strong burst that happens while you are CC'ed.
    • Ability to reset cooldowns

  7. #7
    Resto Druid

    If you're not losing, you're winning.


    OT: Probably BM Hunter or Mage. Hunter loses to things Mage beats, Mage loses to things Hunter beats. I'd say out of all of the classes though, those two have the least amount of counters.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Sheerzo View Post
    Just as the title says, what is the best dueling class atm, and of course WHY! Come with all the information and opinions that you can!

    Discuss!
    Hands down Beast Master Hunters. No other class comes out on top unless the other person is really skilled, in the best PVP gear, the Hunter screws up during the fight, the other person plays perfectly or its another BM Hunter. So you would have to tick 4 of those if you even plan to beat a BM Hunter.

    BM Hunters really require no skill when it comes to dueling. They can kite most melee the entirety of the duel, stun lock and lock down most casters. Their pets do a ton of damage. The only way to nulify a hunter is to focus their pet ASAP, which if he was a smart hunter would dismiss their pet just before it was about to die and summon another. Since hunters can carry 5 pets with them at all times, it will be a while before you even get a chance while still hoping to keep yourself alive.

    BM Hunters have a very strong tool kit to go 1 v 1 against any class. The only class that would probably come close to defeating a Hunter would be Unholy Death Knights and BM Hunters of course.

  9. #9
    Brewmaster Alanar's Avatar
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    Hmm, if I have to choose it would be.. hunters/locks, both of them if played well can do anything.

    I am Shadow myself, but i have no clue were they stand right now. Although I have quite allot of success in duels.


  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Niberion View Post
    How exactly is Demonology a good dueling class? Their mobility is nerfed pretty hard, their damage got nerfed pretty hard and their defensive cooldowns rather suck due battle fatigue right now. If you survive the initial chaos waves and imp swarm, you have to do your best to not win. :/
    And just saying it because I saw someone mentioned it, but double portal is no longer possible.

    I'd say that currently sub rogues, frost mages and bm hunters are king when it comes to dueling.
    I'd say this is for mainly 4 reasons, namely:
    • A lot of control
    • Very high survivability in 1v1 fights
    • Extremely strong burst that happens while you are CC'ed.
    • Ability to reset cooldowns
    If you removed half the defensive cds in a lock's toolkit, they'd still be tankier than any other non-tank spec in the game. As it is right now demo locks compete with actual tanks in how survivable they are.

    Demo lock damage is still very strong though obviously not over the top like it used to be.

    They don't need any mobility because of how tanky they are but they're still exceptionally mobile because of demonic portal/gateway + double jump (yes, this IS mobility; I've seen good locks use it to get out of major burst).

    They have an absolutely absurd amount of control that makes other classes envious between axe toss, lvl 15 tier, level 45 tier and baseline fear. They have 3 separate sources of damage so that if you shut one down you're still getting hit HARD by the other two (imps, pet and the lock; imps/pet can easily keep up an insane amount of pressure).

    You don't realize just how ridiculously potent the spec is until you verse it as any other class. It's the only spec I've seen to beat 100% of their opponents no matter what class/rating/how skilled the player was.
    Last edited by Flaks; 2013-04-09 at 11:59 PM.
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  11. #11
    Dreadlord joepesci's Avatar
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    I duelled a lock with my BM hunter and destroyed him a few times, until he changed spec... to Demo.
    At the moment, I don't know what I could do... maybe 5 x Spirit Beast to survive long enough until a few of his more powerful abilities are on CD.

  12. #12
    Banned Ryan Cailan Ebonheart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flaks View Post
    If you removed half the defensive cds in a lock's toolkit, they'd still be tankier than any other non-tank spec in the game. As it is right now demo locks compete with actual tanks in how survivable they are.

    Demo lock damage is still very strong though obviously not over the top like it used to be.

    They don't need any mobility because of how tanky they are but they're still exceptionally mobile because of demonic portal/gateway + double jump (yes, this IS mobility; I've seen good locks use it to get out of major burst).

    They have an absolutely absurd amount of control that makes other classes envious between axe toss, lvl 15 tier, level 45 tier and baseline fear. They have 3 separate sources of damage so that if you shut one down you're still getting hit HARD by the other two (imps, pet and the lock; imps/pet can easily keep up an insane amount of pressure).

    You don't realize just how ridiculously potent the spec is until you verse it as any other class. It's the only spec I've seen to beat 100% of their opponents no matter what class/rating/how skilled the player was.
    Well said. Demonology Warlocks are like Feral Druids. Both underused good specs that deserve attention.

    My second pick would be an Unholy Death Knight. Its just a perfect spec with a balance of ranged and melee pressure.

  13. #13
    Moderator Yvaelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niberion View Post
    How exactly is Demonology a good dueling class? Their mobility is nerfed pretty hard, their damage got nerfed pretty hard and their defensive cooldowns rather suck due battle fatigue right now. If you survive the initial chaos waves and imp swarm, you have to do your best to not win. :/
    And just saying it because I saw someone mentioned it, but double portal is no longer possible.

    I'd say that currently sub rogues, frost mages and bm hunters are king when it comes to dueling.
    I'd say this is for mainly 4 reasons, namely:
    • A lot of control
    • Very high survivability in 1v1 fights
    • Extremely strong burst that happens while you are CC'ed.
    • Ability to reset cooldowns
    Good post The ability to reset other abilities is particularly potent - because it allows you to trade cooldowns with any other class (you blow offensive, they blow peels, you blow gap closers, they blow defensives, etc) and then once they have lost many cooldowns, you reset yours - and start the same fight over again, except now they have all their abilities on cooldown and you have everything available.

    The fifth reason you missed is, all of those classes have strong damage cooldowns with no (real) ramp-up - icy veins + frost orb + frost bomb + shatter combo, or BM one-shot macro, or shadowblades + shadowdance (or shadowblades + killing spree is also popular for duels). By contrast, destro locks and shadowpriests and such all need time to build up their resources before their real damage comes (chaos bolts, devouring plagues), which turn duels into a Roshambo: where the class with no ramp-up gets to kick first. This is often circumvented in duels by killing bunnies outside stormwind before the duel starts, but it's relevant to all informal duels in world pvp and battlegrounds.

    Part of what you might be missing though Niberion - regarding Demonology specifically (and which Flaks didn't mention, though he covered almost everything about why Demo is great in duels apart from this) is that, duels are a contest between who can CC strongest, soonest - this gives themselves a headstart and their opponent a handicap - demonology locks are functionally immune to magic CC (via Imp dispels): you can't fear them, silence them, poly them, you can't magic-stun them - and once you run out of all that - your dots get constantly dispelled off them.

    In a game where dispels are often the most valuable quality of a healer (in pvp, even over their heals) - Imp-locks (which Demo prefers) run around with their own private dispel bots. Shadow is a pretty good duel spec against most classes, but against a demonology lock I can't fear, silence, or horror them - while all a demo locks CC still works versus their opponent. So effectively, that fifth reason I mentioned earlier about having strong early burst is also true of demonology - but for a different reason - not because they don't have ramp-up, they do - but because they Always win the initial CC trade and therefore they start almost every duel with a headstart to themselves and a handicap to their opponent.
    Last edited by Yvaelle; 2013-04-10 at 01:38 AM.
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  14. #14
    Pit Lord DiscoGhost's Avatar
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    i cant stand questions like this. its like asking whos the best choice for rock paper scissors.
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  15. #15
    Moderator Yvaelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoGhost View Post
    i cant stand questions like this. its like asking whos the best choice for rock paper scissors.
    That one is easy, Rock is obviously best
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  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoGhost View Post
    i cant stand questions like this. its like asking whos the best choice for rock paper scissors.
    It's not like that because Blizzard really muddied the waters of the "rock, paper, scissors" aspect of this game.

    There's a reason that 5 specs reign supreme over everyone else in rated play right now. It's because the rest 6 classes don't have the ability to counter them in any way.

    Demo locks cannot be countered by anything except MAYBE a BM hunter and even then the lock has to muck up BAD to lose that. Yet demo isn't all that amazing in rated play.

    Mages and rogues are right next to each other in the exceptionally potent 1v1 department but neither stand even the minutest chance against hunters or demo locks. Yet they're both top tier arena classes bar none.

    UH is exceptional 1v1 often going flawless against other melee and being the best anti-caster melee as well with it's tools. Yet the spec can't compete with hunters and rogues in rated play or even demo locks 1v1.
    Quote Originally Posted by High Overlord Saurfang
    "I am he who watches they. I am the fist of retribution. That which does quell the recalcitrant. Dare you defy the Warchief? Dare you face my merciless judgement?"
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  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Flaks View Post
    It's not like that because Blizzard really muddied the waters of the "rock, paper, scissors" aspect of this game.
    WoW was never rock paper scissors.

    Rock paper scissors makes no sense in an MMO anyway. Imagine playing rock paper scissors, but everyone is assigned one of the three at birth and can never change it.
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  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Yvaelle View Post
    This is often circumvented in duels by killing bunnies outside stormwind before the duel starts, but it's relevant to all informal duels in world pvp and battlegrounds.
    Now i recognice that alright . Basically thats my only chance of winning vs a warrior given all their tools to break my CCs, and pray he doesn't realise he needs to use shieldwall. Though i'm usually called out for it if the person knows anything about how priests work.

    OT: I think BM is about strongest now, it's one of my hardest opponents and already counters mages and pretty much all melee. Hunters have always been good in duels/wpvp because of the lack of LoS, and that they essentially are the masters of kiting, while still being uninterruptable. And then add their tripple-trinket to that.

  20. #20
    Moderator Nicola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flaks View Post
    Demo locks cannot be countered by anything except MAYBE a BM hunter and even then the lock has to muck up BAD to lose that. Yet demo isn't all that amazing in rated play.
    Lets see, BM hunters pretty obliterate Demo locks with their initial burst and cc chain. Unless the Demo lock is speced into Dark Bargain, it's pretty much game over if the hunter gets the opener.
    Sub rogues have little problems as well and same goes for monks and death knights due their high amount of anti-caster abilities. Both Affliction and Destruction warlocks win it as well due having the same tools and being able to outlast demonology. Warriors have very good chances as well as long as the warlock doesn't have his gateway out LoS as the Demo Lock has to save his biggest burst till the end and the warrior has enough mobility to stick on the lock long enough.
    Shadow priests do fine as well if they can keep their dots up and counter-act in time. (Imp can be a bitch, but so can VT be, it's a 1/3 chance your silences/fears/etc will get dispelled).

    Honestly, Demo warlocks are strong when it comes to dueling where they can fully prepare against what they'll be fighting, however, after all the nerfs they are really not that strong. I think many people are completely overestimating Demonology or haven't done a single duel after all the nerfs.

    That being said, all of this only counts for duels, in any other form of 1v1 such as in battlegrounds and world PvP, Demonology is a lot weaker due not having gateways and portal set up, not using the right pet for a certain class, etc. Purely looking at duels is just silly as that's really the minority of 1v1 going on.

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