Tera's Resto Shaman BiS/Stat priority thread

[Pitkanen]

To say again. 50% mastery line is BS. Going from 45% to 50% mastery is a 3.45% increase in output on a 0% health target, vs 50% to 55% mastery is a 3.33% increase in output on a 0% health target. There is nothing magical about 50% mastery.

Overall. Have you ever calculated how much stats increase your / your raids output?
Based on my calcs... 1 int provides me with as much output and 1 spirit provides me/5 other healers. That's before this legendary meta gem made the other healers start asking... why does mana tide matter?
Which means... Heroic Horridon's trinket is BiS by such a huge margin I can't even begin to pull my hair out.

My thoughts on all BiS lists like this have always been... I'm sure when it matters, and we are trying to kill heroic ra den for the first time... I'll totally be rocking multiple ra den items (: I always prefer stat weights (#'s not priority) @ an ilvl and specific haste breakpoint.

[Walterpayton]

Stacking tons of spirit in a 25 man to give your other healers mana via tide at the cost of extensive throughput of your own is not only a terrible idea, but it means your other healers need to learn how to manage their own mana and spell selection better. Perhaps having someone coordinate raid/tank healing cool downs as well. I gem as much int as I can and int crit in yellow slots. I cannot reforge out of enough spirit. Regen is never a problem if you use tide early and often and avoid direct overheals. I read somewhere "if you have more than ten percent mana left at the end of a fight you have too much spirit" and I couldn't agree more. You are gimping your own throughput and your raid as a whole otherwise. As for mastery I aim for roughly 50% as crit is more valuable for regen and throughput combined where mastery only increases throughput. I don't stress about absolutely having to get it down to or below that though.

TL;DR Spirit is a terrible stat to stack this tier.

[Cynical Person]

To say again. 50% mastery line is BS. Going from 45% to 50% mastery is a 3.45% increase in output on a 0% health target, vs 50% to 55% mastery is a 3.33% increase in output on a 0% health target. There is nothing magical about 50% mastery.

Overall. Have you ever calculated how much stats increase your / your raids output?
Based on my calcs... 1 int provides me with as much output and 1 spirit provides me/5 other healers. That's before this legendary meta gem made the other healers start asking... why does mana tide matter?
Which means... Heroic Horridon's trinket is BiS by such a huge margin I can't even begin to pull my hair out.

My thoughts on all BiS lists like this have always been... I'm sure when it matters, and we are trying to kill heroic ra den for the first time... I'll totally be rocking multiple ra den items (: I always prefer stat weights (#'s not priority) @ an ilvl and specific haste breakpoint.

50% is all that's needed because there are so many things that counter our mastery, the biggest being absorbs. The time that any given raid is low enough to fully benefit from mastery is minuscule and will likely result in overhealings, if you're raid is that low all the time I can understand but because of absorbs and proper cooldown usage, raids don't tend to fall that low.

I read somewhere "if you have more than ten percent mana left at the end of a fight you have too much spirit."

Oh that Awkward moment when you try to use a statement I made against another statement I made.. I said that a while back..

I stack spirit because it's the only way to sustain the very high AoE healing I do. I am at 20k spirit and I still need mana. Obviously you have no heroic progression experience or you're just gimping yourself if you think that it affects my throughput or affects any other healer's ability to manage their mana.

---------- Post added 2013-04-18 at 06:45 PM ----------

And the spirit gems , trinkets and all the other shits continue the same ? or u think we don't need too much spirit for 10M?
Thanks !

I think for 10m it would be more effective to use Horridon/shadow-pan trinket for personal regen.

Spirit isn't as important for 10m because there is much less AoE to contend with.

[Pitkanen]

50% is all that's needed because there are so many things that counter our mastery, the biggest being absorbs. The time that any given raid is low enough to fully benefit from mastery is minuscule and will likely result in overhealings, if you're raid is that low all the time I can understand but because of absorbs and proper cooldown usage, raids don't tend to fall that low.

Sorry, I wasn't clear. My point was that if you think that mastery should be avoided at 50%, then the logic that mastery is better below 50% in some non-marginal way is false. Basically, if you dislike mastery at 50% there isn't a clear reason why you should consider it to be significantly better at 45%, the difference in output per rating is marginal. Where the line was drawn is completely arbitrary. Why not draw the line at 39% (0 mastery rating)?

Not only that, as crit chance changes significantly, the value of mastery relative to crit SHOULD change. The idea that you should have a ratio of crit:mastery rating makes sense. Drawing a flat %line on mastery doesn't.

[oldnmean]

Stacking tons of spirit in a 25 man to give your other healers mana via tide at the cost of extensive throughput of your own is not only a terrible idea, but it means your other healers need to learn how to manage their own mana and spell selection better. Perhaps having someone coordinate raid/tank healing cool downs as well. I gem as much int as I can and int crit in yellow slots. I cannot reforge out of enough spirit. Regen is never a problem if you use tide early and often and avoid direct overheals. I read somewhere "if you have more than ten percent mana left at the end of a fight you have too much spirit" and I couldn't agree more. You are gimping your own throughput and your raid as a whole otherwise. As for mastery I aim for roughly 50% as crit is more valuable for regen and throughput combined where mastery only increases throughput. I don't stress about absolutely having to get it down to or below that though.

TL;DR Spirit is a terrible stat to stack this tier.

hmm...try telling that to Sonie in Method. He is sitting at just over 19K Spirit and has cleared all of H ToT. That seems counter to your opinion that Spirit is terrible ( at least for 25 man).

[Bietr]

i agree with the op, i personally see no point in having more than 50% mastery, based more on the healer comps that i often fit in, which is usually some combo of disc/druid/pally. so i'm often fighting for healz, though this patch resto isn't my main spec. yes our mastery does its best effect at 0% hp but the idea of raid healings is so they don't get there and when they do have a big healing CD ready. so the mastery sees its biggest effects maybe 10-20% of most fights and greatly diminished effects the rest of the fight. where after that crit and haste will have a greater effect, me personally go for more haste. i like dealing bigger healz but if i can't get it off whats the point.
however, if you stack mastery and ignore haste, while healing amazing in your groups, more power to you.

[Deleted]

No one in this thread advocated stacking mastery.

Give it up Pitkanen, the 50% mastery meme is here to stay looks like...

[Tiberria]

Stacking tons of spirit in a 25 man to give your other healers mana via tide at the cost of extensive throughput of your own is not only a terrible idea, but it means your other healers need to learn how to manage their own mana and spell selection better. Perhaps having someone coordinate raid/tank healing cool downs as well. I gem as much int as I can and int crit in yellow slots. I cannot reforge out of enough spirit. Regen is never a problem if you use tide early and often and avoid direct overheals. I read somewhere "if you have more than ten percent mana left at the end of a fight you have too much spirit" and I couldn't agree more. You are gimping your own throughput and your raid as a whole otherwise. As for mastery I aim for roughly 50% as crit is more valuable for regen and throughput combined where mastery only increases throughput. I don't stress about absolutely having to get it down to or below that though.

TL;DR Spirit is a terrible stat to stack this tier.

When you factor in how much regen the entire raid gains from Mana Tide and assume 6 healers (5 additional plus yourself), the raidwide MTT regen gained by the other 5 healers in the raid makes every 1 point of Spirit worth 1 point of Spirit for the other 5 healers combined (in addition to the personal benefits). Factoring in MTT, and the overall raid benefit, Spirit for Resto Shaman in 25 man raids has double the value of Spirit for any other class.

This gives your other healers more mana to spam higher throughput spells, and the ability to reforge out of more Spirit. It is a huge raid wide throughput gain. There is no way that reforging Spirit out for another throughput stat is going to allow you do more personal throughput than what those points in Spirit would allow your entire raid to do. In 10 man raids, I can see the benefit of going for lower Spirit builds; in 25 man raids, it just isn't justifiable unless all you care about is your own selfish personal throughput.

The problem that high SPI builds creates is that you usually have way too much personal regen, especially with the legendary meta gem. I recommend dealing with that problem through haste stacking. Reforge to the 7613 haste breakpoint (with AS specced) for an extra tick on Healing Rain (you will also get an extra tick on HST, HTT, and RT by reforging to that point). That is a huge amount of additional throughput, and it also drops your HW/GHW to 1.3 seconds and your CH to 1.9 seconds. This gives you a decent avenue to burn off that extra regen without gimping your Spirit level too much. I did have to drop from 20,300 to 18,800 unbuffed Spirit to hit that breakpoint (and this will get less with more gear), but still end up running about 21,000 raid buffed Spirit with flask and food.