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  1. #41
    "moving targets can avoid this damage" this means the targets between your focus and you? Otherwise WTF... WTB GC's head.

  2. #42
    That was added when ghostcrawler kept saying that it was a skill shot, it has been taken out and will always hit all the targets before their personal abilities (deterrence etc. etc.)

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  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Neazy View Post
    Stupid comparison. You don't have to stop hunters. Hunters stop themselves. They run out of focus every couple attacks and then have to steady/cobra to get back focus. A hunter shooting steadys at you is the equivalent of a rogue auto attacking you without slice n dice. It's virtually nothing. And to top it off, you can make those steady shots nearly impossible to get off by simply attacking him.

    The overpowered part is BM hunter burst. A hunter who uses BW then another readiness + BW can spam you with abilities that hit 10/20% harder than normal for over 20 seconds and still have focus leftover, all without having to cast a single cobra shot. That's the overpowered part, not the fact that hunters are "unstoppable".

    Edit: spelling
    Oh please. Hunter damage is balanced around focus. You do the same DPS as a mage chain casting their nukes while managing focus, i.e. "stopping" to regenerate focus is a non-issue.

    Hunters are just an uninterruptible range class that can DPS on the move with little penalty. Their damage and CC can't be stop apart from disarm which is given only to a select few classes and is mostly melee range (with the exception of monks).

  4. #44
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    If you think CoS and SS are balanced outside of anything but sustained PvE damage, IDK what to tell you. The fact of the matter is, when a hunter runs out of focus, (s)he has to use severely gimped abilities to regen that focus. Keep in mind, our passive regen is much slower than rogues/ferals.

    Also, scatter shot was never deadzone-able. Not in recent memory, at least.

    I'm not entirely sure but I thought silencing shot didn't have a deadzone either? Huge caveat there, I don't remember one, but it is quite possible.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    If you think CoS and SS are balanced outside of anything but sustained PvE damage, IDK what to tell you. The fact of the matter is, when a hunter runs out of focus, (s)he has to use severely gimped abilities to regen that focus. Keep in mind, our passive regen is much slower than rogues/ferals.

    Also, scatter shot was never deadzone-able. Not in recent memory, at least.

    I'm not entirely sure but I thought silencing shot didn't have a deadzone either? Huge caveat there, I don't remember one, but it is quite possible.
    Ya, hunter PVP bust is so gimped ...

    The point stands there is no way to stop a hunters damage at will - outside of full CC. Waiting for them to run out of focus is nonsense. It's like say that we should just wait for a warrior to run out of rage. In real life, its like say to just wait for a gunman to run out if bullets as he guns down bystanders.

    PS: Anyway, whatever. I don't care anymore. PVP in general just makes me nerd rage. Not good for my blood pressure. Enjoy your OPedness.
    Last edited by SodiumChloride; 2013-04-12 at 09:30 AM.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by SodiumChloride View Post
    Oh please. Hunter damage is balanced around focus. You do the same DPS as a mage chain casting their nukes while managing focus, i.e. "stopping" to regenerate focus is a non-issue.
    Due to the stop & start nature of PvP this isn't true at all. Yes, if you leave a hunter alone, he will do great DPS. But if you train him and make it so that he gets pushback on his casts and also has to use defensive abilities instead of being able to spam his focus regenerating shots, he will do much less DPS. This is how you're supposed to "interrupt" hunters.

    Again, the overpowered part is the chaining of cooldowns that make our abilities hit stupid hard while not having us run out of focuss. But with the powershot nerf and the upcoming blink strike nerf, I don't think it's gonna be a big deal anymore.

    Hunters are just an uninterruptible range class that can DPS on the move with little penalty. Their damage and CC can't be stop apart from disarm which is given only to a select few classes and is mostly melee range (with the exception of monks).
    Traps are preventable by every class. All you have to do is stand on the trap and you will get trapped instead of your healer. No interrupt required. Also, scatter has a max range of 20 yards, so you can also outrange scatter/trap by simply staying max range at all times. I don't see how that's any different than outranging a rogue's gouge/kidney/cheap shot/blind, but no one is complaining about those being unavoidable.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Neazy View Post
    Due to the stop & start nature of PvP this isn't true at all. Yes, if you leave a hunter alone, he will do great DPS. But if you train him and make it so that he gets pushback on his casts and also has to use defensive abilities instead of being able to spam his focus regenerating shots, he will do much less DPS. This is how you're supposed to "interrupt" hunters.
    Err ... this is the same for every class - except maybe warriors.

    Train a mage and he would be spending his time kite, LoSing or stuck in Ice Block.

    Traps are preventable by every class. All you have to do is stand on the trap and you will get trapped instead of your healer. No interrupt required. Also, scatter has a max range of 20 yards, so you can also outrange scatter/trap by simply staying max range at all times. I don't see how that's any different than outranging a rogue's gouge/kidney/cheap shot/blind, but no one is complaining about those being unavoidable.
    So you have to eat the trap ... vs counterspelling a polymorph casting mage locking him out his Arcane school. And good luck if the hunter launch the damn trap at you.

    20 yards is bloody hard to out range. It's a pretty damn big radius.

    Then I suppose you don't mind if Polymorph is instant cast, after all the mage can get silence, the spell can be out range (only 30 yards) and it even heals the target.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by SodiumChloride View Post
    Err ... this is the same for every class - except maybe warriors.

    Train a mage and he would be spending his time kite, LoSing or stuck in Ice Block.
    That's exactly my point. Every class does less damage when trained, therefore it's possible to shut down hunter DPS.

    So you have to eat the trap ... vs counterspelling a polymorph casting mage locking him out his Arcane school. And good luck if the hunter launch the damn trap at you.

    20 yards is bloody hard to out range. It's a pretty damn big radius.
    Not at all. If a hunter moves close to you, you know that he's going to trap. Just be prepared to eat the trap for your healer.

    Then I suppose you don't mind if Polymorph is instant cast, after all the mage can get silence, the spell can be out range (only 30 yards) and it even heals the target.
    If you make polymorph instant, you have to give it a 30 second cooldown (same as frost trap) and then it would be the same. I doubt most mages would trade their 1.5s cast time for a 30 second cooldown.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lolvanish View Post
    Unlike yours, his post contributed something though.
    oh yeah he QQ about how BM hunters r op

  10. #50
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    i'm not a PvPer but i only see less probability to fail a cast (2.2 sec cast, with haste and shit there won't be enough time to avoid it) and 0.8 second room for another shot

    not much of a change btw
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  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Neazy View Post
    That's exactly my point. Every class does less damage when trained, therefore it's possible to shut down hunter DPS.
    /sigh

    Maybe I'm being trolled. My point is, apart from full CC (and disarms of which not every class has) there isn't any way to stop a hunter's DPS.

    If you make polymorph instant, you have to give it a 30 second cooldown (same as frost trap) and then it would be the same. I doubt most mages would trade their 1.5s cast time for a 30 second cooldown.
    Well, given that poly DRs ... it might not be such a bad trade - especially if we lose the heal.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by SodiumChloride View Post
    /sigh

    Maybe I'm being trolled. My point is, apart from full CC (and disarms of which not every class has) there isn't any way to stop a hunter's DPS.
    You're not being trolled. You're just too stupid to have a discussion with so you pretend like I didn't just tell you exactly how to stop a hunter's DPS. You clearly have a future in local politics as a Republican candidate.



    Well, given that poly DRs ... it might not be such a bad trade - especially if we lose the heal.
    No, it wouldn't be a bad trade. It would be a balanced trade. Which is why there is 1 class that has the instant, 30 second cooldown CC and 2 that have the spammable cast time CC.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Neazy View Post
    You're not being trolled. You're just too stupid to have a discussion with so you pretend like I didn't just tell you exactly how to stop a hunter's DPS. You clearly have a future in local politics as a Republican candidate.
    Ad hominem, the last resort of someone who has been cornered in an argument. LOL

    In summary, casters are far easier to stop than hunters due to the extra tool against them known as an interrupt which just about everyone and their mother - even if they don't have interrupts, they have range silences. This give hunters a huge advantage and contributes to their OPedness.

  14. #54
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    Guys, no need to needlessly insult people. Keep it civil.

    That being said, a BM hunter has 120 focus, which is, if he pops BW for 10 seconds, 2 KCs and 8 AS, if you let them get off. Keep in mind, though, that once his BW is up, he's lost that super OP 1m CC break, and both he and the pet are CCable. Of course you're going to get wrecked if you let him get off everything in a BW uninterrupted. Just like any class under CDs. That's not an argument that hunters are OP.

    A discussion about hunter burst under CDs is applicable, and we're seeing lots of things like PvE trinkets with agi procs being used to artificially boost that burst. And Blizz is rightly toning down both trinkets like those, and the burst of our big shots, including Powershot, which is what this topic is ostensibly about.

    The side topic about the "ease" of stopping hunters is just a strawman. I don't think hunters are any harder to stop than any other class. You can be dumb and blow your CC on him before he BW, or you can wait til he goes big red and scary. I mean, doesn't anyone outside of the hunter community recognize that the big burst coincides with the inability to break CC on them now? How silly is it to argue "OMG 1m CC break!" on one hand and argue "OMG insane burst" on the other, when the two things mean the other isn't up?

  15. #55
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    Soo the nerf damage but buff cast time and CD on something who i mainly use to get rid of some melee or kick someone from a platform
    Nerfing brust on that wont stop me to use it also will be much more easy for me to kill a BM hunter (playing MM)
    And if you want to stop a hunter just kill it simple.The class is weakest one in selfdefense than any others and detterence aint help much because hunter cant use any skill when is poped on
    Last edited by Zaxio; 2013-04-13 at 07:22 AM.

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