The second...they sent the Scourge and a few demons. The Scourge are still on Azeroth as are the demons. They lost Archimonde...probably lost Archimonde.
The third...Kil'jaeden was using most of his power to stabilize the rift before it closed.
In short, Azeroth has faced a single full scale invasion by the Burning Legion...and survived due to a fluke.
You are overlooking that operative word - Siege. As pointed out, the city has very few entrances and is largely blocked off from a supply lines because the entrances are chokepoints. The Alliance doesn't need to attack the city. It just needs to secure the choke points. Garrosh has already poisoned his own water supply so how long he will be able to withstand that depends solely on how much water he has stockpiled.Then it's just a case of marching your army over the entire length of Durotar, THEN Attack a huge city wall, THEN try and storm the city. THEN try and kill Garrosh.
The Alliance has airborne carriers. And I personally want to see the Skybreaker finally drop its bomb.Also, getting air superiority. from a Naval assault against a stronghold with airship docks? Are you high?
As it is, Horde airships don't have a reputation for combat capability.
Assumes they'll fight for Garrosh, doesn't it? It's also right next door to Ashenvale...and the Night Elfs.And I'll just point out the three entrances. You'll need a large army to fight through Aszhara, home to many goblin things. to even try and cut that supply way off, You'd probably have to capture bilgewater habor also.
Or you could just blow the bridge.The side entrance is tricky, but probably alot more doable, but it costs resources and time to try and hold it down.
At which point the other side puts the pressure on. Lets not also forget the problems caused by potential naval bomardment, the need to guard his prisoners and maintain control of the city, guard the water and so on.Now Your Army is split, and you can probably not hold the siege as Garrosh can simply divert forces to a major counterpush against either the main gate or the Aszhara gate to relive the pressure.
I want to see that used again as well.
Blizzard have acknowledged the flaws in the Alliance story.IMHO big part of your "offence" is your perception of this LOLstory and how you choose to interpret the lousy writing.
You disagree with the assessment that it was to balance out the zones?
No. I'm stating it was an idiotic reason to do so.
They can sit back, relax, enjoy the sunrise, drop off the occasional weapons crate or two, send in a small SI7 team now and again and summon the fleet when the fighting has stopped.
Last edited by Talen; 2013-04-14 at 09:46 PM.
So no, the best solution is the current one, helping the rebellion staying alive so it grinds more and more of Garrosh's defenses UNTIL the Alliance Fleet arives. Two fronts is better than one.
Also, Kosak tweeted that Alliance players will be given an option to call Vol'jin's bluff and 'make him sweat a little' in a future build.
Yes. Which doesn't require the Alliance to make friends with Vol'jin, turn the other cheek to his insults and threats or indeed do anything beyond drop off supplies every now and again. The Alliance can have this fight drag out without this partnership.And a good strategist DON'T want the in-fighting to stop, that means Garrosh won and can full focus on one front against the Alliance on the beach.
He is just advocating working together, implying that if the Alliance tried to handle it alone (which was most likely implied before this screenshot) they would fail or were more likely to fail.
There is nothing bigoted about his words or mindset, this is not different than the Vol'jin we're familiar to.
Off topic: The hint at cooperation does strengthen the argument for those who think the "not yet released" MOP feature is going to be cross faction raiding, at least specifically for Siege of Orgrimmar.
And again - why approach Vol'jin at all? They gain nothing from this they wouldn't have gotten anyway. There is no need for two spies to arrange a defacto alliance with their nations enemy. And with no time pressure, no reason given, the Alliance has no reason to stand by and accept those insults, no reason not to turn around and simply leave, no reason to even hint at Alliance warplans.But, again, it is what is happening. A spec-ops team on the field and a supply route. That's it, that's what the Alliance has on Durotar/Barrens, to supply the rebellion AND spy at the same time.
Because Vol'jin has to fight. That choice isn't his to make anymore. By avoiding the question, by insulting and threatening the Alliance, he's stating that he is someone the Alliance shouldn't trust, that he is someone they shouldn't work with.
really, where are people getting this idea that both sides should trust each other? it's clear Vol'jin doesn't trust the allies, he has no reason too other then their desire to kill Garrosh, one would assume it would be the same way for the allies. and again, why do we have to be "friendly" to each other? it makes no sense given the last time Vol'jin came to help the allies out when he went and warned them about the Zandalari whipping the Gurubashi and Amani up he got a "ok, yea sure well look into it, fuck off now, you ugly damned troll", and that both sides involved here oh I don't know... hate each other? that is true right? the horde and allies DON'T historically like the other? he is using the allies to get what he wants, and the allies are using him to get what THEY want. it's a business transaction, really no need to see this past that. this idea that Vol'jin should be "nice" and grateful to the allies is ignoring both lore and Jol'jin as a character, and replacing it with factionalist self entitlement, it's irritating.
how about this? AFTER it is all said and done Garry is dead. 3 cheers w/e. you can walk up to him and he thanks you and is grateful for your help. then, you can stab him and walk off while he bleeds to death. punishment for DARING to have a back bone when dealing with the allies.
Last edited by Sky High; 2013-04-15 at 09:45 AM.
The alliance knows they need to deal with Garrosh and the best way to keep up the pressure until their main force arrives is to enable the horde rebels to create enough noise to keep Garry occupied.
If the alliance simply siege Orgrimmar innocent lives will be lost if they simply just starve the city. The people trapped in there would have no relief. So this plan by directly tieing up Garrys goons and then when the allies arrive to hit Garrosh hard on multiple fronts is the best course of action. Varian as stated by blizzard doesnt want to go in and cleanse the city. He wants Garrys head on a pike the innocents there will be spared.
Voljin is simply trying to provoke a reaction from the player to say its easier to work with me than against me.
Also, it's ptr. We're getting an option to call his bluff, we don't have to just sit there and take it. And you only get that dialogue option if you're a douche to Vol'jin, essentially showing up and saying 'hey we both hate garrosh, so we're willing to help you out.' Then saying '**** you, why should we help you instead of helping ourselves?'
By arming the darkspear, we accomplish two things.
1. We keep the superior forces of Orgrimmar from driving them out or into hiding.
2. The Darkspear can kill more orcs, lessening the enemy's number, and securing a landing spot for our fleet.
We save alliance lives and get to land our fleet on Garrosh's doorstep instead of fighting through the barrens or ashenvale to get there. Would you throw that all away like a child throwing a tantrum because Vol'jin said something mean after you're an ass to him first? Or would you let it slide because with his plan Darkspear and Orcs are killing eachother more because of your actions and thinning the numbers of the enemy, saving the lives of your own people when the siege comes?
Hahaha this thread is hilarious xD So many people having problems with reading and understanding the text. His reply made me laugh and i think it was decently sharp to make a point. Ofc he was bluffing, and yet you needed a developer to confirm that in fact he was bluffing xD
He used sarcasm to get his point right and cease any further speculations.
It's funny to see others reactions like Talens who clearly got butt-hurt becuase Vol'Jin was mean to them- how dare he! Because any other sensible Horde leader in such a stressing and dreadful situation had a patience to enlighten sassy Mr. Nobody #3478234 Alliance grunt intoducing him to all the consequences. While the fact is- they have no time for that. His reaction was absolutely natural.
And the the longer they prolong the assult the bigger disaster Garrosh may unleash.
Also it's not like Alliance is befriending with Darkspears, it's cooperation made out of convenience where they barely tolerate each other. VJ is using Allies to decrease number of Garrosh loyalists and faster get into the city where remaining prisoners are, just like Allies will be using rebels as decoy to transport under Orgrimmar thier army and made an assult- so something they have been waiting for, and have been preparing for since Cataclysm. So don't say stuff like :
Well i had different impression after looking what happened in Barrens xDVol'jin's logic is really flawed here.
When asked "Why should we alliance help YOU?" Vol'jin's response assumes that the Alliance want to invade orgrimmar, when it's exactly the opposite.
Because Alliance wanted to do it for a really long time, and waiting is relly not the solution here, Both alliance and rebels feel pressure, since every second Garrosh is increasing in strenght. Vol'Jin has even bigger pressure on him, because he also aims to rescue prisoners.Alliance wants to do nothing of the sort, while Vol'jin is the one that wants to kill garrosh and invade Orgrimmar. Alliance can just sit back, relax, and watch as the Horde decimates itself from within, and then just swoop in and finish them off in one swift decisive strike, while they are still weak.
So my question is: Why should WE help YOU? (except loot.) What do we win? Alliance are commiting SOLDIERS, SUPPLIES and HEROES to help the HORDE to change their moronic leader, wich, given he stays in power, not only will greatly weaken the Horde as a whole, but would grant the alliance the full support of the Pandaren in Pandaria. What LOGIC is there BEHIND this!?
And I also don't get why Some of you are pulling up the idea that Alliance will strike at Orgrimmar with it's all force? I don't even think there will be 40% of overall army there, since it's scattered arounf the Azeroth and Outland, kirin Tor as far as I am concern made a campain against Thunder King, so it's absolutely unrealistic to think that in such a short time all Alliance army will be present during the Siege.
Therefore they cannot risk loosing more soldiers than needed. That's the reasons why cooperating with rebels is a very reasonable idea. "But hat will we gain for helping them?!!!" - lesser casulties. But if you feel that Sarcastic comment VJ made was way too hurtful("more than I could bear!!") to the point you could ragestorm and attack both rebels and Horde, or wait til Garrosh first will strike and therefore making you loose decent amounf of army (if not loosing overall in Durotar) was worth it, then congratulations, but you're a horrible tactitian.
I also think that it's huge exaggeration to say that VJ was threatening and insulting Alliance as faction. His sarcasting comment was made to give a picture of eventual consequences, but how could he actually really foresee the scale of it? Therefore he wasn't threathening Alliance (as you guys already notices that he has no power to do it) but told about situation where they don't work together, how much more grim picture that would be.
And I don't see how was that a stupid move, if it worked to stop further speculation on how they are meant to work, and from what I understood is that Rebels and alliance will be two different groups working on thier own (although I might be wrong here). Or you guys really thought that he would be a second Velen who will be more concerned over enemies who have been haunting his people, and aid them gladly? xD
So how is that a bad writing? Everything looks reasonable to me .
And i am really glad that we finally have a leader who is well-thought and stands on a field between such a oppostions like Thrall and Garrosh was.
He won't cheer at Alliance (are you actually surprised? i see nothing wrong with it), he won't start stupid and needless fights, but if there will a situation where offensive has to be made he won't hesist.
Isn't it time to see the Night Elves come back with a vengeance?
"Je vous répondrai par la bouche de mes canons!"
The problem is there is no reason fro the alalicne to approach him.
The problem is doing so brings the Alliance zero benefit. They gain nothing...everything they want from him, he will provide regardless of what they do.
Its not a case of the Alliance will roflstomp the city - if they coudln't they wouldn't even contemplate this assault. Its a given that they can.
But allying with Vol'jin won't make it easier. Vol'jin fighting Garrosh will make it easier...and they're going to get that anyway.
So the Alliance have no need to subjugate themselevs to Vol'jin. No need to accept his insults. No need to accept his threats.
Because you seem to think Vol'jin has something to offer the Alliance. He doesn't. And both sides know this.
Vol'jin and the Darkspear are still the enemies of the Alliance and all the trust building exercises in the world won;'t change that.
And what does the Alliance gain by partnering with him? Arming him doesn't require partnership. It doesn't require friendship. It doesn't even require talks. The Alliance could tell Vol'jin exactly why they are doing it and Vol'jin would still have to take the weapons.By arming the darkspear, we accomplish two things.
What does partnering give the Alliance that they can't get without it? Nothing.
The problem...for Vol'jin....was that it was a stupid bluff.
He ticked off the Alliance for no good reason. He risked his peoples future because his feelings were hurt? No - his response is foolhardy and idiotic. It is a reply worthy of Garrosh. But this is Vol'jin speaking. And he should be above such lunacy.
I don't like the Alliance going to Vol'jin because the entire set up emphasises the way they've been shoehorned into this story. I don't like Vol;'jins sresposne because it turns him into Garrosh.It's funny to see others reactions like Talens who clearly got butt-hurt becuase Vol'Jin was mean to them- how dare he!
Last edited by Talen; 2013-04-16 at 05:43 AM.
all of you completely missed the sarcasm in the first part of what he said.... idiots...
[This post was infracted for flaming.]
Last edited by Rivelle; 2013-04-16 at 01:48 PM.
Vol'jin DOES have things to offer, if he wanted he could call in aid from the other horde factions like the Tauren that will more then likely come in force to help end Garrosh. along with a sure way to chip away at his forces, and give ways to infiltrate and sabotage defenses in and outside the city. you are just too drunk on the Kool-aid to even comprehend such things.