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  1. #1121
    Scarab Lord Puck's Avatar
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    "Hey Vol'jin, why should I help you?"

    "Because if you don't I'll stab you in the back and kill everyone you know and love! Then I'll dial up Sylvanas and make you a Forsaken slave"

    "Kay"

  2. #1122
    I am Murloc! Sky High's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haven View Post
    Dude, you're still not ignoring his posts? I read him just for lolz, like I read Trassk's thrallwank. There's also Northem, that's a Benny Hill Show, only without the girls.
    I do get some sort of sick thrill from debating with rocks.

    [This post was infracted for flaming.]
    Last edited by Rivelle; 2013-04-16 at 01:51 PM.

  3. #1123
    Elemental Lord
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sky High Shark View Post
    you really have no concept of sarcasm do you? oh wait, you are an up the ass alliance fan boy, so anything that doesn't stroke your ego is instantly discounted as "subjugation" or "insults that should not be tolerated" and "threats". silly me for thinking otherwise. and as of yet we don't know what Garrosh is doing under Org for all we know it's an army of sha hulks that eat joy and happiness and breath out fear and suffering. for all YOU and I know it could be walking into a slaughter. oh what am I saying that for. you guys have been able to handle EVERYTHING that Garrosh has thrown your way right?
    If he is, we have neither been told, nor shown.

    The Alliance discover Vol'jin is rebelling. Good.
    They plan to have him fight Garrosh and weaken BOTH sides. Great.
    To achieve this they......

    Approach Vol'jin and offer to join him in a partnership. Why? Because Blizzard says so. In game? It gives them nothing. Not a thing. They want Vol'jin to fight....guess what? That is what he is doing. Fighting Garrosh. What will the Alliance partnering with him actually achieve?

    It places YOU...the player under his effective command. Your story ends unless he agrees to let you work with him. You don't need him for anything....but you are the petitioner in this story.

    You accept his insults. You accept his threats. Again...why? Your position is not desperate. Your invasion isn't inevitable. You have the option of pulling back. You know this. Vol'jin knows this. So why is he insulting the people he needs to ensure the survival of his people?

    Because Blizzard wanted to show him as "cool", to play up his credentials. We got the same reason when Blizzard had rookies in the Forsaken decimate the Alliances 7th Legion. It created a bad story then, its creating a based story now.

    Vol'jin DOES have things to offer, if he wanted he could call in aid from the other horde factions like the Tauren that will more then likely come in force to help end Garrosh. along with a sure way to chip away at his forces, and give ways to infiltrate and sabotage defenses in and outside the city. you are just too drunk on the Kool-aid to even comprehend such things.
    None of which requires the Alliance player to partner with their mortal enemies , fight alongside them, like them, trust them or do anything else except arrange for supply drops at a safe site. An act which doesn't require Vol'jins cooperation either.

    EJL

  4. #1124
    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    You accept his insults. You accept his threats. Again...why? Your position is not desperate. Your invasion isn't inevitable. You have the option of pulling back. You know this. Vol'jin knows this. So why is he insulting the people he needs to ensure the survival of his people?
    Why is the Alliance PC is being a douche to Vol'jin when he offers a second front against Garrosh, saving countless Alliance lives? Varian wants that, the SI:7 team wants that, only the Alliance PC brainless strategist douche doesn't grasp that concept and Vol'jin calls his/hers crap.

    AS an Alliance player, I'm going to avoid that question, because it's stupid to provoke that one that just presented a opportunity for the Alliance.

  5. #1125
    Fluffy Kitten Lokann's Avatar
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    57 pages on a guy getting mad because you yank his metaphorical nipple piercing?

    You folks really are crazy.



  6. #1126
    High Overlord Souxlya's Avatar
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    This actually feels more Vol'jin then I've seen in a long time. He is a troll, and their race is a pretty cocktail of savagery and mellowness. You also have to realize he and his people have been in a pretty rough area for a long time. Vol'jin didn't need to be as savage when Thrall was around, and when Garrosh came in he still viewed Thrall as his leader and road the calm road to respect Thrall's wishes. Now Vol'jin realizes this ins't the Horde Thrall wanted, and it isn't the path Vol'jin or his people want either. So he is standing up and fighting back with the true savagery that has been a part of him forever. You don't get to be the leader of your Tribe and keep them barely alive just because you can chill in the breeze mon. Oddly people seem to forget what a force to be reckoned with the Trolls are, and how brutal they can be. Vol'jin is just making it clear that just because he needs help, doesn't mean he will be a weak leader, oh no. I fear what kind of voodoo he'll bring down upon Jaina's head in the future if she keeps following her current path.

    As a side note. If they kill Vol'jin, I will cry. I almost did when I thought he was a goner in that scenario.

  7. #1127
    Quote Originally Posted by Tauror View Post
    Why is the Alliance PC is being a douche to Vol'jin when he offers a second front against Garrosh, saving countless Alliance lives? Varian wants that, the SI:7 team wants that, only the Alliance PC brainless strategist douche doesn't grasp that concept and Vol'jin calls his/hers crap.

    AS an Alliance player, I'm going to avoid that question, because it's stupid to provoke that one that just presented a opportunity for the Alliance.
    "Tauror" - sure sounds like an Alliance player. That being said, it makes no sense. Voljin should be the one to desperately want the Alliance to help, he is the one in the very bad position right now. Garrosh would crush him without the Alliance's aid with only the Tauren being even remotely close enough to lend aid in time. His people are dying/being murdered by Garrosh right now, he is under time pressure to act.

    There is a dynamic of the stronger and the weaker in such a situation, of the one who has strenght and the one who desperately needs it and this dynamic influences HOW one can and should act. For some weird reason in this situation it is inversed, the Alliance who is in the stronger position, who has time and could be laid back about this since no matter who wins they profit comes to seek out Voljin groveling before him and he gets to trash talk them ontop of that.

    It's basic respect and decency that is missing here, if you tried pulling something like this in an real life situation especially in the medieval/ancient times the other side wouldn't just have pulled support from you, they might even have supported your enemy from now on as it would've been a grave insult.


    One thing people are forgetting is that the Tauren, Belfs and Trolls aren't the Alliance friends and probably never will be. They are enemies just as much as the Orcs/Garrosh are. They killed Alliance just the same, they enabled Garrosh to destroy Theramore, they participated some of them even with joy. Remember how the dark spear got into the fighting and even refused to pull back in Northwatch Hold.
    The Alliance shouldn't actually be interested in the rebellion ending anytime soon and Voljin winning. They should be most interested in dragging it out as long as possible having as many Horde soldiers die as possible so they could eventually steam roll the remainders.

  8. #1128
    Over 9000! Combatbulter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lokann View Post
    57 pages on a guy getting mad because you yank his metaphorical nipple piercing?

    You folks really are crazy.
    I don't suffer from insanity ,I enjoy every minute of it ;P
    He who sees his own doom can better avoid its path. He who sees the doom of others can deliver it.

  9. #1129
    Pit Lord Sett's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deleth View Post
    One thing people are forgetting is that the Tauren, Belfs and Trolls aren't the Alliance friends and probably never will be. They are enemies just as much as the Orcs/Garrosh are. They killed Alliance just the same, they enabled Garrosh to destroy Theramore, they participated some of them even with joy. Remember how the dark spear got into the fighting and even refused to pull back in Northwatch Hold.
    The Alliance shouldn't actually be interested in the rebellion ending anytime soon and Voljin winning. They should be most interested in dragging it out as long as possible having as many Horde soldiers die as possible so they could eventually steam roll the remainders.
    Of all the posts I've been reading, this one comes out the clearest for the bold reason.



    I don't like the angle at all they're doing as far as the Alliance aiding in this. We've been trying to focus on Horde/Alliance war now suddenly 'wait our side has a meany, let's get rid of him' moment? There still is no good reason we should aid any of the Horde. Civil war in their ranks = profit.
    Quote Originally Posted by Deuse View Post
    Beth clearly did not understand the rules to Paper Rock Scissors Gun.
    Let's look fabulous~. A Paladin transmogrifier item list.

  10. #1130
    This thread makes me rofl.
    In the quest text he is being sarcastic.
    Also at all the him becoming the new warchief posts....in previous quests he has stated he has no interesting becoming warchief for many reasons. With how things have been playing out in the horde Lor'themar will end up the new warchief. Vol'jin has been in tighter situations in the past, I'm sure he doesn't "need" the help of alliance.

  11. #1131
    I guess in Vol'jin's fantasy world the Alliance absolutely has to siege Orgrimmar and he has legions of Shadow Hunters, enough to route the combined might of the Alliance (which, keep in mind, now includes the Kirin Tor). Even if the Alliance lost 9/10ths of it's fighting force taking the city, we'd still vastly outnumber him. What a toolbox. I hope the quest allows me to spit in his face.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tauror View Post
    Why is the Alliance PC is being a douche to Vol'jin when he offers a second front against Garrosh
    Why would you want a "second front" that you can't trust and could just as easily turn on you? And why is it so imperative that the Alliance siege Orgrimmar NOW. Is Garrosh building a wonder or something?
    Last edited by Lemons; 2013-04-16 at 09:26 AM.

  12. #1132
    Elemental Lord Haven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sky High Shark View Post
    I do get some sort of sick thrill from debating with rocks.
    Monsieur knows a thing or two about perversions I reckon
    "A NAME IS A CLOAK OF LETTERS THROWN UPON A MAN. IT MEANS NOTHING." - Transcendent One, Planescape: Torment.

  13. #1133
    yes Garrosh is building something he just took the remains of a "dead" Old God to Orgrimmar......

  14. #1134
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemons View Post
    I guess in Vol'jin's fantasy world the Alliance absolutely has to siege Orgrimmar and he has legions of Shadow Hunters, enough to route the combined might of the Alliance (which, keep in mind, now includes the Kirin Tor). Even if the Alliance lost 9/10ths of it's fighting force taking the city, we'd still vastly outnumber him. What a toolbox. I hope the quest allows me to spit in his face.



    Why would you want a "second front" that you can't trust and could just as easily turn on you? And why is it so imperative that the Alliance siege Orgrimmar NOW. Is Garrosh building a wonder or something?
    Varians son almost died to Garry, Jaina wants nothing more than to see his head on a pike.

    They now know the belves want to get rid of him, that the trolls openly rebel. So they see it as an opportunity to tie up Garry and his goons while the alliances forces gather up and can hit Garry on a 2nd front thus stretching his resources.

    They also know that hes working on something pretty bad _AND_ that he has used monsters in his forces many times. So no doubt rather than let him gather up strength and wiping out the rebels they feel its better to deal with him sooner rather than later.

  15. #1135
    Quote Originally Posted by Haven View Post
    ...which also requires resources, which don't come out of thin air. Roman Empire flourished when it was stomping over barbaric Europe, Europe flourished when it invaded American continent, US flourished on trading during WW2.
    Yes, It's true but: roman empire was a very different society (I know it very well, I'm italian) than ours or than Alliance/horde ones. They based their economy on slavery so had to invade other peoples. Also their society structure was very very different. Europa flourished partially after the discovery of America. Some countries (Spain, Portugal...) exploited the golden/silver mines for a century but then Europa was in an difficlt economic stage. It flourished really during the industrial revolution when america was in isolationism and in internal troumbles (but already indipendet). So Europe flourished without a decisive contribute of America. However, It's true you need resources to inceeas your wealth but need a balance.

  16. #1136

    People really should learn to read WITH UNDERSTANDING!

    Why would you want a "second front" that you can't trust and could just as easily turn on you? And why is it so imperative that the Alliance siege Orgrimmar NOW. Is Garrosh building a wonder or something?
    Have you been playing this game? And yes Garrosh is like Hitler- preparing for allault and conquering everything for his Horde, by using Dire Orcs, Heart of Old God, Krakens, and many other nasty stuff. Oh and he made some really nasty moves to the point Varian, Jaina and others want his head on silver plate.

    And the the longer they prolong the assult the bigger disaster Garrosh may unleash.

    Also it's not like Alliance is befriending with Darkspears, it's cooperation made out of convenience where they barely tolerate each other. VJ is using Allies to decrease number of Garrosh loyalists and faster get into the city where remaining prisoners are, just like Allies will be using rebels as decoy to transport under Orgrimmar thier army and made an assult- so something they have been waiting for, and have been preparing for since Cataclysm. Both alliance and rebels feel pressure, since every second Garrosh is increasing in strenght.

    And I also don't get why Some of you are pulling up the idea that Alliance will strike at Orgrimmar with it's all force? I don't even think there will be 40% of overall army there, since it's scattered around the Azeroth and Outland, kirin Tor as far as I am concern made a campain against Thunder King, so it's absolutely unrealistic to think that in such a short time all Alliance army will be present during the Siege.

    Therefore they cannot risk loosing more soldiers than needed. That's the reasons why cooperating with rebels is a very reasonable idea. "But what will we gain for helping them?!!!" - lesser casulties. But if you feel that Sarcastic comment VJ made was way too hurtful("more than I could bear!!") to the point you could ragestorm and attack both rebels and Horde, or wait til Garrosh first will strike and therefore making you loose decent amount of army (if not loosing overall in Durotar) was worth it, then congratulations, but you're a horrible tactitian.

    Talen, you really really need learn to read and get your facts right, you're so stubborn to accept simple facts, and exaggerate minor things.
    AND CAN ENLIGTHEN ME- HOW BACKING OFF AND NOT HELPING YOUR ENEMY IS AN THREAT?!


    He WAS NOT threatening Alliance, so stop repeating this BS. Just because he ridiculued smartass minor soldier doesn't mean he insulted whole faction, it was just that little grunt who thought he or she can talk back to Leader of rebelion and make demands. Vol'Jin is not like Kheal'Thas and will not dance as Garithos will play, So there is really nothing insulting in saying "Ok smartass, we follow your plan, we back off doing nothing, and watch the results as you fail."

    And Thankfully Varian is no longer so short-sighted, and he see that he can get more profit collaboring with rebels.

    And why don't any Alliance biased player see this : that it must be a huge satisfaction watching Horde fighting Horde while you do something you have not only been waiting for but also been preparing for?

    What you get is :
    - Sige of Orgrimmar
    - Defeat of Garrosh and a Horde
    - And get easier mode, since the rebels won't be in your way, thereofre you will get easier and faster transport of your army to Durotar, you'll easier get trough unnknown theritory, and you'll have lesser amount of enemies to fight with to reach the aim of assualt.

    What Victory will bring - mostly satisfaction :

    - That you killed the heart of the Horde- a Warchief
    - that you destroyed the main capital
    - that you left the Horde in condition where they have been faighting one another, so it's kind of humilation for them as a faction
    - That Horde is probably going back in progress to the times where WC3 ended , and starting all over again.

    Because even if Aliiance would eradicate everyone in Orgrimmar and Durotar, Barrens and Azshara - they would still not eradicate the Horde overall. Neither would Horde ever eradicate Alliance.

    And I have a feeling that if the places was switched- that there is civil was in Alliance, and Horde would be Attaking Stormwind while collbaoring with ally rebels as they fight with other allies. - Alliance players would still call it a Horde bias?

    i know that story writing was god dam awful for some time- specially in Cataclysm, but I think that in MoP they finally get things right, or at least they get it as right as possible since the mess with Cata.

  17. #1137
    Scarab Lord Kazomir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tauror View Post
    Why is the Alliance PC is being a douche to Vol'jin when he offers a second front against Garrosh, saving countless Alliance lives? Varian wants that, the SI:7 team wants that, only the Alliance PC brainless strategist douche doesn't grasp that concept and Vol'jin calls his/hers crap.

    AS an Alliance player, I'm going to avoid that question, because it's stupid to provoke that one that just presented a opportunity for the Alliance.
    You know what will save countless alliance lives? The alliance pulling out of that rebellion and an truce with the disrespectfull stinky troll and waiting till the horde clashes against itself, destroying itself, then swooping in after the party is over and everyone is dead-drunk, finishing off the horde as a whole.
    Quote Originally Posted by biolink22 View Post
    rogue "glory hole helm"

  18. #1138
    Quote Originally Posted by Kazomir View Post
    You know what will save countless alliance lives? The alliance pulling out of that rebellion and an truce with the disrespectfull stinky troll and waiting till the horde clashes against itself, destroying itself, then swooping in after the party is over and everyone is dead-drunk, finishing off the horde as a whole.
    False,

    Without help the rebels will be crushed and Garroshs plans of using monsters/sha power or what ever else he is cooking up will make him harder to deal with. This will lead to more alliance lives lost.

    If you think about it, if you invade after the rebels have been beaten you will then see that the alliance try to siege him but lose a LOT of lives breaking through. they will not have that 2nd front with horde rebels tying up Garry and his goons. It will be all alliance losses on these fronts. The horde would probably lose if its just Orgrimmar thats under attack and no other city. But you run the risk that the rebels now have to obey the warchief and they come to aid him and now you have the risk of your supply lines being hit and your invasion force being hit on multiple fronts. So you run the risk of losing your entire force.

    Also what monsters/power he is cooking up under Org could be fully unleashed by this point making it more difficult.

    OR you can do the smart thing aid the horde rebels now. Let them create the distraction then when the time is right and garrosh has enough forces tied up and your invasions force is ready you open the much needed 2nd front. You will have less casualties this way.

  19. #1139
    Over 9000! Combatbulter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kazomir View Post
    You know what will save countless alliance lives? The alliance pulling out of that rebellion and an truce with the disrespectfull stinky troll and waiting till the horde clashes against itself, destroying itself, then swooping in after the party is over and everyone is dead-drunk, finishing off the horde as a whole.
    Of course this is a possibillity, though if you go down that road every horde nation needs to be occupied and the civillians won't accept alliance rule and will eventually turn against them, most likely killing most of the occupation force leading to far more dead.
    He who sees his own doom can better avoid its path. He who sees the doom of others can deliver it.

  20. #1140
    Quote Originally Posted by Kazomir View Post
    You know what will save countless alliance lives? The alliance pulling out of that rebellion and an truce with the disrespectfull stinky troll and waiting till the horde clashes against itself, destroying itself, then swooping in after the party is over and everyone is dead-drunk, finishing off the horde as a whole.
    OMG, He was shown disrespect to One minor soldier, big deal. Stop blowing this out of proportion. Just because he silenced one stupid soldier becuase he was in no mood for explaining things, doesn't mean he disrespects the faction. He did warned Alliance of Zanadalari Rise- although he could leave it be. So why to say such a thing? That's completely different measure, and you know what?

    Am happy to finally see a leader who is not in mood to chip-chat with enemies, but made a sharp comment, to stop ridiculous speculation.

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