Vol'jin on, "Why should we (Alliance) help you?" (5.3 spoilers)

[Deleted]

Or the invasion and clear cutting of Ashenvale and attack on Astrannar.
The bombing of a druid school (Alliance doesn't know Garrosh disapproved of the attack).
The invasion of Gilneas.
The complete obliteration of South Shore and the desecration of all residents of the region.
The farmers killed and raised in Andorhal by Horde forces.

Y'know, any of those might be reasons the Alliance would want to stop Garrosh as all these were done as a result of his war machine (and again, the Alliance ((and Horde)) never discovered the truth behind the events in Ashenvale that contributed to the war).

What events in Ashenvale are you thinking about ?

[jealouspirate]

WOAH. Being the target of an assassination really gave Vol'jin a pair! I did not see that coming.

Do we really need Horde help to raid Org and kill Garrosh? Anyone with a Black War Bear did it themselves already :P

The Trolls certainly need the Alliance more than the Alliance need the Trolls, but that doesn't seem to matter or be acknowledged.

[Faroth]

But it did great for the Dragonmaw during the Second War, using Red Dragons.

I'm still a little grumpy that the red dragonflight accepted the Horde with open arms and didn't blink that the Dragonmaw, their former slavers and torturers of their queen, had just joined the Horde. Stupid Cataclysm...

[Lucetia]

People really have some reading comprehension problems ... He only means that whatever plan the ally has is stupid and if they don't follow his plan they can go in alone and die... how is that setting him up to be Garrosh 2.0?

Exactly this. Reading this thread is funny how people jump straight to conclusions based on what was said. Do people not read something anymore and think about what they just read and form a conclusion?

Basically Vol'jin is saying that he has a plan and if the Alliance want to help with his plan he is ok with it as they can use all the help they can get at this point. If the Alliance disapproves of his plan then they are free to come up with their own plan, but since he knows the inner workings of Orgrimmar and where Garrosh would probably have traps set he knows the Alliance will fail due to lack of this knowledge. So when they fail he would be more than glad to enter Orgrimmar after them cleaning up whatever is left and do what needs to be done. In the process there just happens to be a lot of dead Alliance bodies and he is sure Sylvannas wouldn't mind having a few more undead to help strengthen their population as they cannot reproduce without the use of Valk'yrs resurrecting bodies.

So basically it's either take his plan and have a chance at sucess or come up with their own plan and more than likely end up dead.

[Thulvaso]

So is it just trolls for now or are Tauren present in Durotar ?

[Xilurm]

And without his help to get into ORG the alliance armies would be decimated. He gets to joke.

I bet he also finds it funny when his people are being shot in the middle of the day. Jaina would have drowned ORG if it wasn't for Thrall. I'm pretty sure they can kick their asses without even one Alliance member dying.

[Faroth]

What events in Ashenvale are you thinking about ?

That contributed to the war? Just before it kicked off prior to everything going to hell in Cataclysm, the night elves basically suspended all hunting rights and closed all trade routes to the Horde in Ashenvale because Sentinels were being killed, skinned (possibly skinned alive) and the Horde's symbol painted on trees in their blood. The news pissed Garrosh off whose response was basically "screw the elves, if we want their lumber we will TAKE IT" to which he got the stinkeye from a few Horde members including Thrall. It heightened tensions just before Garrosh was made Warchief and contributed somewhat to the war.

[Punisher069]

It sounds to me less like he's "out of left field" and more "I know wtf I'm talking about so you better listen."

[Deleted]

I bet he also finds it funny when his people are being shot in the middle of the day. Jaina would have drowned ORG if it wasn't for Thrall. I'm pretty sure they can kick their asses without even one Alliance member dying.

Jaina would have drowned Orgrimmar, using the Focusing Iris. Unless Alliance now is taking a page from Garrosh's notebook, they aren't using WMDs.


I don't fear the man that has 10 nukes, I fear the man that wants to use one.

[Faroth]

I bet he also finds it funny when his people are being shot in the middle of the day. Jaina would have drowned ORG if it wasn't for Thrall. I'm pretty sure they can kick their asses without even one Alliance member dying.

If it wasn't for Thrall? She BLAMED him for it too. I'm pretty sure Thrall slowed her down, Kalecgos stopped her.

[Deleted]

That contributed to the war? Just before it kicked off prior to everything going to hell in Cataclysm, the night elves basically suspended all hunting rights and closed all trade routes to the Horde in Ashenvale because Sentinels were being killed, skinned (possibly skinned alive) and the Horde's symbol painted on trees in their blood. The news pissed Garrosh off whose response was basically "screw the elves, if we want their lumber we will TAKE IT" to which he got the stinkeye from a few Horde members including Thrall. It heightened tensions just before Garrosh was made Warchief and contributed somewhat to the war.

I seem to remember reading something about that in a novel. Weren't the skinning done by members of the twilight hammer ?

[Xilurm]

If it wasn't for Thrall? She BLAMED him for it too. I'm pretty sure Thrall slowed her down, Kalecgos stopped her.

Oh yeah, I forgot that.

[Faroth]

I seem to remember reading something about that in a novel. Weren't the skinning done by members of the twilight hammer ?

Yep, the Twilight Hammer were the ones, but there's been nothing that ever indicated either Alliance nor Horde figured out the truth. Beautifully executed, wasn't it?

There's a possibility that Hamuul might have pieced it together since he survived the druid slaughter by orcs who didn't seem to know who Garrosh was, but a single comment amidst battle can't really be determined as proof. It's like saying "Garrosh will be mad" and they response "Pfsh, Garrosh WHO? *stab!*" It doesn't really prove they aren't Horde orcs so much as they obviously don't care what Garrosh thinks.

[Blayze]

And without his help to get into ORG the alliance armies would be decimated. He gets to joke.

Again, we should let the Darkspear start off. Let them break themselves on the defenders. Let them make the entrance for us. Then once they're broken, we come in, finish Vol'jin off ourselves--to prevent a future threat from rising--and then turn our attention to Orgrimmar. We don't need to do anything until after the Darkspear have wasted their lives weakening Garrosh's power base.

We're not the ones in open rebellion, after all.

[Bloodrein]

I think they need each other just as much. Does Garrosh know that Vol'jin and the darkspear are in on this seige? If not, the Darkspear could be located inside Orgrimmar when the Alliance approach the gates. The Darkspear could start the attack from inside causing mass confusion making it a lot easier for the Alliance to get through the gates. Without the Darkspear fighting from the inside causing this confusion it would be extremely hard if not impossible for the Alliance to get through the gates.

[Rend Blackhand]

Glad to see he's not lovey dovey with alliance. Helping with SOO will be purely an alliance of convenience. Best case scenario for me.

[Viradiance]

Is everyone in this first page of the thread retarded?

It's juxtaposition. "My way or the high way"

Shit option that benefits only him versus option that benefits him less but everyone more.

[Faroth]

The Alliance shouldn't really have a problem with Vol'jin. He came to us for aid in stopping the Zandalari, warning us of the threat that was rising as soon as he knew about it. We don't really have a beef with him directly and the Alliance as a whole doesn't want the eradication of the Horde either.

This is just a pretty lame way of getting us working together against Garrosh. Like someone said earlier, it's a pretty weak "fist pump" moment for Alliance Pride to fall in line and follow Horde orders to save the Horde from the problem they created and clean up their mess....by following them.

---------- Post added 2013-04-09 at 11:58 PM ----------

I think they need each other just as much. Does Garrosh know that Vol'jin and the darkspear are in on this seige? If not, the Darkspear could be located inside Orgrimmar when the Alliance approach the gates. The Darkspear could start the attack from inside causing mass confusion making it a lot easier for the Alliance to get through the gates. Without the Darkspear fighting from the inside causing this confusion it would be extremely hard if not impossible for the Alliance to get through the gates.

Nope. 5.3 has the troll rebellion led by Vol'jin facing off directly against Kok'ron soldiers, then marching on Orgrimmar while the Alliance scurry around the outskirts of Orgrimmar and do some SI:7 espionage. Honestly it feels like they got the roles mixed up. The rebellion should be doing the espionage while the massive army does the direct march, even with the two working in tandem.

[snuzzle]

Yeah, nothing there suggests he hates the Alliance.

He's just saying "Look, this is the plan we're going with. You don't like it, fine, I can always let you and Garrosh's forces kill each other and we'll clean up what's left. No? Alright, then we'll go with my plan."

Or in other words "This is the plan. STFU, we don't have time to waste, THIS. IS. DA. PLAN........MON." X3

This. There's nothing "Alliance hating" or "prideful" about this. He's basically just saying "Hey, idiot, we have to stick together or neither of us will succeed. I don't like you, you don't like me, but we both hate Garrosh even more."

[Stelio Kontos]

Still waiting for the Alliance to have some relevance and their own "high-five" moment like we were promised.

So far 5.4 just looks like Vol'jin bossing us around and us doing the work to serve the Horde in their civil war.

Blizzard, as usual, disappoints Alliance players looking for something worthwhile for their own faction.