Vol'jin on, "Why should we (Alliance) help you?" (5.3 spoilers)

[Solidito]

He talks like a moron, better not become warchief.

[Deleted]

No more than a troll trying to save his people by asking his enemies for help then bossing them around.

A troll that is witnessing his people being killed and is still asked "why should we help you?"

[Trassk]

I see how this is going to go, this threads going to be just another pissing contest between our fictional factions and what matters more to that.

Sometimes I wish you lot would just look at the story from a wide angle lens. The alliance has a legitimate reason to want to take Garrosh down. Vol'jin has a current and very direct reason to end him because of his people. The alliance doesn't trust the horde and its rebellion, so why should the rebellion trust the alliance, for anything more then a convenience.

---------- Post added 2013-04-10 at 01:30 AM ----------

Bullspit...

Blizzard didn't say that at all. In fact, Blizzard actually outright said that they couldn't do as much with the Worgen and the alliance storyline as they liked because they ran out of time. (so much for "we release things when they're ready!")

Man Trassk... you're not even trying anymore.

they outright said vanilla wow had more quests and areas in the alliances favor, so come cataclysm certain areas we given to the horde to balance it out. I don't have to give it anymore justification then that.

[Millie]

they outright said vanilla wow had more quests and areas in the alliances favor, so come cataclysm certain areas we given to the horde to balance it out. I don't have to give it anymore justification then that.

Quote it, source it.

Until then, conjecture and bullshit to support your opinion. Also lets go from vanilla to cataclysm, because it's not like 2 expansions were in between there. Guess they're a bit slow on making up for things.

[Hughes]

I see how this is going to go, this threads going to be just another pissing contest between our fictional factions and what matters more to that.

Sometimes I wish you lot would just look at the story from a wide angle lens. The alliance has a legitimate reason to want to take Garrosh down. Vol'jin has a current and very direct reason to end him because of his people. The alliance doesn't trust the horde and its rebellion, so why should the rebellion trust the alliance, for anything more then a convenience.

Whoa whoa whoa, let me get this straight Trassk. On several occasions you have NO problem turning threads like these into a pissing contest. You complain about the story and if something does not go a particular way it's horrible (especially if Thrall died). Also, you're the one who gets up in arms and upset more than just about anyone else in these forums ABOUT those 'fictional characters.'

He was looking at the 'wide angled lens' about the scale of the story. Sure, the alliance benefits from Garrosh being killed, but the story is as horde centric now (maybe more, maybe less) as it was in Cata.

Seriously, are you even trying? Or you desperately clinging to that high horse you roll around on constantly?

[Blayze]

Sometimes I wish you lot would just look at the story from a wide angle lens.

And I wish you'd look at the story from a focused one.
The actions of each character you write in a story must ALWAYS be consistent with their personality, what they know and what they THINK they know.
When an author starts hamstringing their characters intentionally because it "doesn't fit the story they want to tell," then that author is disrespecting the characterisations of those characters.

It's like a bad fanfic where half the characters are OOC at any given moment and the side characters' lives revolve around the protagonists for no good reason.

[BlackMagicMarkel]

It's almost like people are jumping on what's written and not seeing what he's actually trying to get across. It's not "I'm doing this if you don't do this." it's "Well, you could do this, but here's an example of what could easily happen if you did this without my help.". All he's saying is that without his help there would be larger casualties, and he's playing on the "Big Bad Troll Man" image to work a little scaring them into help too, laying down an unlikely (Considering who Vol'Jin has shown himself to be) alternate outcome that looks horrifying to the Alliance.

We as players, and our Horde characters who dislike Garrosh and have been helping Vol'jin this whole time know that. The Alliance? All they see is a dangerous Troll in a bad position who could be a potential temporary ally, and who could very well be capable of what he just said he might do if they don't help him/let him help. It's just a scare tactic.

[Trassk]

Get over it Hughes, your not the only one who gets pissed off with seeing the same attitudes from posters here. Better to rise above it and try to get a higher perspective, even if its for a moment.

[Blayze]

Oh Vol'jin acted nasty to his factions mortal enemies, what is the world coming to!

Seriously?

Hes a Horde leader, you dont expect him to show weakness to his enemies do you? The fact the Alliance are even allowed into Org (judging from this text) is nothing short of a miracle.

And oh, the Alliance are lining up to die for their mortal enemies instead of letting them take the heat for them.

Works both ways.

[Millie]

Hes a Horde leader, you dont expect him to show weakness to his enemies do you?

Looks weak enough when he shows up on his knees wanting us to save his people from getting shot in the head for sport.

[Airwaves]

Anyway i bet over 5.3 and 5.4 he gets alot more friendly with alliance. This is blizzards chance to have cross faction guilds and groups. I sure hope blizz doesn't miss it.

[foxHeart]

He's just making a point, though it does raise an interesting question...why wouldn't the alliance just let the Horde do the exact thing Voljin presents? Let them rush in and kill themselves, then clean up the mess? It's not their city or their warchief. But I'm giving this too much thought. The raid makes absolutely no sense when the Alliance get to raid a Horde city, especially since there will more than likely be a metric fuckton of the Horde there. Well, I suppose it makes sense to have the Horde wave around little "For the Alliance" banners while someone else gets all the glory for taking down their megalomaniac warchief amirite.

[Trassk]

And oh, the Alliance are lining up to die for their mortal enemies instead of letting them take the heat for them.

Works both ways.

No it really doesn't. You Don't seem to understand how well the alliance might have the right to take down Garrosh, the horde is set to lose everything unless they play there cards right and know where they stand.

The enemy of my enemy if my friend, at least for now. That doesn't mean they can't hate one another.

[Trassk]

He talks like a moron, better not become warchief.

No, he talks like a troll whos had enough BS from people and wants to put an end to it. How would you feel if everything you put faith in stabbed you in the neck, and you had to recover, knowing those who should be under your protection were being killed and you unable to help them.

Yeah, you'd be pretty pissed to I imagine.

[Millie]

it's "Well, you could do this, but here's an example of what could easily happen if you did this without my help."

Not even close. In that case, he would just point out the results. What he says is directly "I will kill you and send your bodies to Sylvanas". That's not a "what if" that's a "Listen to me or else"

[Blayze]

No it really doesn't. You Don't seem to understand how well the alliance might have the right to take down Garrosh, the horde is set to lose everything unless they play there cards right and know where they stand.

The enemy of my enemy if my friend, at least for now. That doesn't mean they can't hate one another.

The enemy of your enemy is still your enemy. But if you play your cards right, you can get them to take the heat instead of you.
I do know the Alliance's list of grievances against the Horde--a list they, for reasons of "the story", choose to blame purely on Garrosh.

I also know, however, that so far defending and countering has worked out pretty well for the Alliance in Mists. Why Varian would send the troops in now when there's a chance to let the enemy weaken itself is beyond me.

[jealouspirate]

Well, the Alliance wants revenge for what Garrosh did.
So you can either join in the rebellion or try it on your own and die.

I just don't like the way it's framed. I can accept that the rebellion and Alliance need to work together, but the Alliance doesn't need to "join" the rebellion. It should be framed as teaming up, but here we just have the Alliance joining the Horde. Vol'jin points out that the Alliance needs him but fails to recognize that he needs the Alliance.

Alliance players aren't asking for the sun and the moon here. We just want to be acknowledged and have our own characters involved instead of joining the Horde forces.

[Stelio Kontos]

Vol'jin and the Darkspears are a proud people.

Proud enough to be incredibly rude and threatening to people they want help from.

They should be allowed to continue being proud.

And they also deserve to die just as proudly. I'm sure their pride will carry them through and protect the skulls of their civilians from Kor'kron bullets.

[Millie]

Why Varian would send the troops in now when there's a chance to let the enemy weaken itself is beyond me.

The solution to this logic is simple. Whatever Garrosh does with the heart (Consume it's power I guess) will basically be like a time limit (Not an actual timer in the raid, just a general sense of urgency).

If Garrosh is allowed to consume it's power, he will dominate Azeroth. So we can't just sit around and wait for them to get weakened, we have to go now now now. We'll show up a bit late, Garrosh will consume it but since it was so recent he won't have all his Azeroth dominating power and we can get him while he's not at full power.

Generic and cliche, but that works for Blizzard a lot and helps iron out some issues with the logic behind it.

[Pebrocks The Warlock]

Looks weak enough when he shows up on his knees wanting us to save his people from getting shot in the head for sport.

"shows up" It looks like the player goes to Vol'jin, not the other way around.