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  1. #1

    Its a lie that Blizzard cant make raids and 5 mans at the same time



    ^ That is on the frontpage today. When I read it, I got a little boggled. When the ICC patch hit live, we got one of the best raids ever created, and 3 of the best 5 mans ever made. So why does Blizzard say today, that they cannot create that experience again? I call bullshit. Im not trying to create a flame thread, but you cant ignore the fact. That statement is a huge lie and they have proven themselves that they can make 5 mans and make a epic massive raid.
    My dad once told me that aslong as religion existed, even I could make my own fantasy buddys

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by lolcatabeta View Post


    ^ That is on the frontpage today. When I read it, I got a little boggled. When the ICC patch hit live, we got one of the best raids ever created, and 3 of the best 5 mans ever made. So why does Blizzard say today, that they cannot create that experience again? I call bullshit. Im not trying to create a flame thread, but you cant ignore the fact. That statement is a huge lie and they have proven themselves that they can make 5 mans and make a epic massive raid.
    And the Call of the Crusader patch suffered with it. Because they were focused on ICC.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by lolcatabeta View Post


    ^ That is on the frontpage today. When I read it, I got a little boggled. When the ICC patch hit live, we got one of the best raids ever created, and 3 of the best 5 mans ever made. So why does Blizzard say today, that they cannot create that experience again? I call bullshit. Im not trying to create a flame thread, but you cant ignore the fact. That statement is a huge lie and they have proven themselves that they can make 5 mans and make a epic massive raid.
    That's just your opinion. I found most of ICC to be quite disappointing and the 5-mans too short.

    Additionally, the development time between patches has been shorter, not to mention that ICC was the last tier of an expansion, expected to last longer than other tiers and thus including more content.

  4. #4
    You have to take into consideration the time needed to create ICC 10/25 + 2 x hardmodes + 3 x normal dungeons and their heroic equivalents.

    The time from the ToC patch to the ICC patch was considerably longer than the time between patches in MoP. Blizzard have made clear their current strategy is to produce patches with new content at a faster rate, so naturally we're going to see less features in each. Factor in what they believe to be content that will get the most people playing it and that pretty much explains why we've got what we've got.

  5. #5
    The Insane Slowpoke is a Gamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lolcatabeta View Post


    ^ That is on the frontpage today. When I read it, I got a little boggled. When the ICC patch hit live, we got one of the best raids ever created, and 3 of the best 5 mans ever made. So why does Blizzard say today, that they cannot create that experience again? I call bullshit. Im not trying to create a flame thread, but you cant ignore the fact. That statement is a huge lie and they have proven themselves that they can make 5 mans and make a epic massive raid.
    Well they did drop the ball big time on DS.

    But maybe they should try 1 or 2 heroics? Or even putting the heroics in the non-raid patches?

    It's not a case of "raids or dungeons" anymore like it was in Cata.
    You don't create "justice" by destroying. That includes buildings, cars, or the careers of the people you want "justice" for.


  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by lolcatabeta View Post


    ^ That is on the frontpage today. When I read it, I got a little boggled. When the ICC patch hit live, we got one of the best raids ever created, and 3 of the best 5 mans ever made. So why does Blizzard say today, that they cannot create that experience again? I call bullshit. Im not trying to create a flame thread, but you cant ignore the fact. That statement is a huge lie and they have proven themselves that they can make 5 mans and make a epic massive raid.
    So you have no clue what kind of resources and time go into making content but you are more than happy to pour soap in your pants and fart bubbles for everyones entertainment? I guess you got this knee jerk reactionary decision from the medical journal of supposing, assuming and guessing.

  7. #7
    Super Moderator Darsithis's Avatar
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    They're not lying at all. The time beween Ulduar and ICC was broken up by a really poor raid (ToC). The turnaround on development in MoP is considerably faster...but it means focusing on one specific area instead of two.



  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by lolcatabeta View Post
    we got one of the best raids ever created
    Besides, you know, Ulduar.

    And being stuck in there for TWELVE MONTHS.

  9. #9
    Elemental Lord Arbs's Avatar
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    Resources, Art, Desgin, Tech its doesn't take a week or 2 to just do those. Its takes much time. Ya its easy to do a Dungeons & Raid together if its on the exact same art style like ICC was.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    So you have no clue what kind of resources and time go into making content but you are more than happy to pour soap in your pants and fart bubbles for everyones entertainment? I guess you got this knee jerk reactionary decision from the medical journal of supposing, assuming and guessing.
    I will note that in a convert to raid podcast interview with ian Hozzakasta (spelling?) the lead raid designer he says that Bliz went straight into designing the next tier (5.4) as soon as 5.2 went live. So you are just blowing your ignorance of the situation at this point.

  11. #11
    The icc dungeons were not that good compared to the standard ones at bc launch imo. The raid was ok but what really made the heroic part of it last was not unique mechanics or anything it was just tuned stupidly. I mean I did kill heroic lich king in a mediocre guild so I guess thats why it took so long but still tuning an instance so that you almost need % based buffs and can't do it with creative tactics and maybe stacking one class lke yogg saron with zero keepers is not a valid excuse to say the instance lasted for long.
    Sure I enjoyed it but it wasn't better than ulduar or a lot of bc/vanilla raids so don't be retarded and think that if they have to make amazing 5mans while making raids it will suffer because of how much content you would have to create extra. Also if the instance is set in the same enviourment ofc it saves huge time from making the 5mans

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    They're not lying at all. The time beween Ulduar and ICC was broken up by a really poor raid (ToC). The turnaround on development in MoP is considerably faster...but it means focusing on one specific area instead of two.

    Unless they have fairly small teams (which they are lying about "increasing in size"), they are lying, it hasn't been the first time.

  13. #13
    I deleted my old post for this one to be more relevant.

    The time between Ulduar and Trial of the Champions was 4 months (no 5mans were released with Ulduar either). The time between ToC and ICC was 4 months. ToC was actually just slapped together (as well as the 5 man ) to keep people busy with something while they finished ICC and the 5 mans.

    So really it was almost 8 months after Ulduar that a raid AND 3 5 mans were implemented.

  14. #14
    Moderator MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    That was what, December of 2009? Three and a half years ago?

    Things change. Priorities change. Staffing changes. The way MOP is structured as a design is different than the end of WotLK. There's any number of reasons why they could do something then that they can't do now and undoubtedly lots of things they can do now they couldn't do then. For one thing, patches are coming along a lot faster now yet there's still a ton of content to design.

    Saying that they are lying about it today because they did something years ago is a stretch.
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  15. #15
    Frankly if they had taken the End Times Dungeons and scaled them up for 25 people, slapped a raid title on it and put it in the lead up to Dragon Soul raids then no one would of bitched that the Dragon Soul raids were too easy and short. Because you got 5 man dungeons (which I would suggest were very well done) in the end of cata they had to take production away from end game raids and Cata continued down a path of infamy.

  16. #16
    If Blizzard had the resources to develop one raid and three 5-mans every patch, they would always ask the question "would players prefer one raid and three 5-mans, or two, possibly three raids?"
    That was the gist of the devs point. There's always a trade-off when developing instanced content, and since raids have considerably greater longevity 5-mans will always be second priority.

  17. #17
    Brewmaster Pejo's Avatar
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    On top of all the reasons stated above, Naxxramas was already created in Vanilla. Ulduar was already in the works pre-release of WotLK and ToC took very little effort from the raid team.

  18. #18
    I am Murloc! Anjerith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lolcatabeta View Post


    ^ That is on the frontpage today. When I read it, I got a little boggled. When the ICC patch hit live, we got one of the best raids ever created, and 3 of the best 5 mans ever made. So why does Blizzard say today, that they cannot create that experience again? I call bullshit. Im not trying to create a flame thread, but you cant ignore the fact. That statement is a huge lie and they have proven themselves that they can make 5 mans and make a epic massive raid.
    A Large raid and a dungeon to show the leadup storyline for the end of a story that a huge number of fans wanted to see following a 200 yard radius circle with a pit below it. Hm, I wonder where the resources went?

    OP, you can't ignore the fact that you are cherry-picking on memory lane a bit.
    Quote Originally Posted by melodramocracy View Post
    Gold and the 'need' for it in-game is easily one of the most overblown mindsets in this community.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Shink View Post
    Unless they have fairly small teams (which they are lying about "increasing in size"), they are lying, it hasn't been the first time.
    I assume you have proof of all this lying you accuse bliz of doing or are you just assuming?

    Its not that they have small development teams, its that they have small windows of time to complete massive amounts of work. When 5.2 went live the creation team went straight into developing the next tier of raiding and everyone expects to be able to PTR this content now that 5.3 went live within a month which basically gives them 3 months to give us something that isn't a fail that can be tweeked for 2 months before release.

    I always wondered why people who have no facts and know nothing at all about a subject feel they are entitled to publicly deficate on blizzard because they naturally assume Bliz is doing it wrong.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by dokhidamo View Post
    Well they did drop the ball big time on DS.

    But maybe they should try 1 or 2 heroics? Or even putting the heroics in the non-raid patches?

    It's not a case of "raids or dungeons" anymore like it was in Cata.
    Which would be nice except the developers say that it is bad because then players would be focused on the few new ones and get burned out. Not like no one got burned out from the underwhelming launch heroics. New heroics would ideally have to have a higher ilvl which could then eat into the oh so precious LFR queues and make the older LFRs look like they are failing even faster. Blizzard wants LFR to remain successful in MoP and it cant do that if dungeons regain their glory from the past two expansions.
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    That was what, December of 2009? Three and a half years ago?

    Things change. Priorities change. Staffing changes. The way MOP is structured as a design is different than the end of WotLK.
    Yes things change and back in Cata Blizzard said they could not pump out content faster which included raids and dailies despite how much more people they hire. Teams got restructured and more developers are hired making what was previously stated as not possible into a reality. Odd thing is that there was a separate team for quests, and dungeons and raids before even Cata.

    So Blizzard might not be lying that at the present time they cannot just pump out more five mans on top of raids but it is likely possible to be done in the future if they choose to make it part of their plans like they did with daily content in MoP.
    Last edited by nekobaka; 2013-05-22 at 08:07 PM.

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