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  1. #1

    [resto] Legendary meta gem

    I am a resto shaman running with 5k spirit and focusing on haste caps>crit>mastery. We have started trying hcs with my guild and i have no problem at all manawise or throughputwise. With the meta gems that are soon to be able to be bought i wonder, is it worth replacing my + 3% crit effect with the free cast spell meta? I am droping HST on cd and recalling it refunding all my mana and i spam lb at the boss w/e i can and so far i havent faced any problem whatsoever and we do try to 2 heal most of the fights.

    I would be very interested in what other shamans think about it.

  2. #2
    If you're having no mana problems what so ever i guess the 3% crit bonus would be better

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-10 at 02:06 AM ----------

    If you're having no mana problems what so ever i guess the 3% crit bonus would be better

    5k spirit seems obscenely low for some reason to me though, might not have looked t how much i run lately though.
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  3. #3
    Drop spirit with meta
    old mistweaver probably still better than u

  4. #4
    Bloodsail Admiral Chrispotter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stoixeio View Post
    I am a resto shaman running with 5k spirit and focusing on haste caps>crit>mastery. We have started trying hcs with my guild and i have no problem at all manawise or throughputwise. With the meta gems that are soon to be able to be bought i wonder, is it worth replacing my + 3% crit effect with the free cast spell meta? I am droping HST on cd and recalling it refunding all my mana and i spam lb at the boss w/e i can and so far i havent faced any problem whatsoever and we do try to 2 heal most of the fights.

    I would be very interested in what other shamans think about it.
    Stoix you scrub! Just take the legendary quest gem. I mean. Its shiny. 5k spirit does seem super low tho.
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  5. #5
    5k? Wow, i'm totally JELLY! I'm an HPal and I have over 7K spirit for PVP, with the 522 Shado Pan trinket for 30k mana/3min, and that is still not enough, sometimes, in RBGs! =)

  6. #6
    I can't even begin to think how you don't run oom with 5k spirit. I have 12k raid-buffed and still feel like a bit more would be sweet.
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  7. #7
    Let me get this straight, this is what I read into the OP's post:

    - His guild are attempting heroics - I assume he means ToT heroics

    - He runs with 5k spirit

    - He has no mana problems

    - They try to 2 heal most fights

    - While 2 healing, he has enough free time to spam lightning bolt at the boss for the pitiful mana gain

    Either I've fundamentally misunderstood, and the OP is talking about heroic 5 mans, or I'm calling bull.

    In a more serious response:
    The legendary meta is potentially weaker for resto shammies than many other healing classes. The objective with a 4 second clearcasting proc would be to cast as many high HPS, high mana cost spells in that window as possible. This means that if UE / HR are off cooldown, then use that as priority, followed by healing surge spam. If HR is not off CD, then spam surge.

    The problem with this is: Casting UE + HR once the legendary meta has procced will cost you over half the proc duration, allowing for probably 1 more healing surge at most. What this means therefore, assuming 9.5% uptime on an encounter based on it's RPPM of 1.4, it's going to end up being wasted alot of the time. If it procs during a period of low damage, then it will be as good as useless. This is very different from a disco priest or a holy pally, who could spam shields or FoL / HR to stack shields respectively - meaning that in that 4 second window, even if there's not much damage going out at the time, they can still preshield people for free.

    The same is true of resto druids - 4 seconds with no mana cost = lots of pre hotting.

    Basically shaman are pretty weak when it comes to preemptive healing, and the legendary meta, due to the random nature of it's proc, is going to suit preemptive healing classes far more than it does purely reactive healers like resto shaman.

  8. #8
    I have found myself spamming HS most of the time (working on IQ10HC - Jikun and Jinrok down) so I guess its going to do me good :-)

    11,5k spirit ,20%crit ,50%mastery, (reforging out of haste whenever I can)

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Cartho View Post
    Let me get this straight, this is what I read into the OP's post:

    - His guild are attempting heroics - I assume he means ToT heroics

    - He runs with 5k spirit

    - He has no mana problems

    - They try to 2 heal most fights

    - While 2 healing, he has enough free time to spam lightning bolt at the boss for the pitiful mana gain

    Either I've fundamentally misunderstood, and the OP is talking about heroic 5 mans, or I'm calling bull.

    In a more serious response:
    The legendary meta is potentially weaker for resto shammies than many other healing classes. The objective with a 4 second clearcasting proc would be to cast as many high HPS, high mana cost spells in that window as possible. This means that if UE / HR are off cooldown, then use that as priority, followed by healing surge spam. If HR is not off CD, then spam surge.

    The problem with this is: Casting UE + HR once the legendary meta has procced will cost you over half the proc duration, allowing for probably 1 more healing surge at most. What this means therefore, assuming 9.5% uptime on an encounter based on it's RPPM of 1.4, it's going to end up being wasted alot of the time. If it procs during a period of low damage, then it will be as good as useless. This is very different from a disco priest or a holy pally, who could spam shields or FoL / HR to stack shields respectively - meaning that in that 4 second window, even if there's not much damage going out at the time, they can still preshield people for free.

    The same is true of resto druids - 4 seconds with no mana cost = lots of pre hotting.

    Basically shaman are pretty weak when it comes to preemptive healing, and the legendary meta, due to the random nature of it's proc, is going to suit preemptive healing classes far more than it does purely reactive healers like resto shaman.
    ^^^ 5k spirit? You must be trolling. With a 500 ilvl that isn't even be possible.

  10. #10
    Scarab Lord Puupi's Avatar
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    5k spirit works just fine if you have 12k+ crit with that.
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  11. #11
    Mechagnome Licarius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Puupi View Post
    5k spirit works just fine if you have 12k+ crit with that.
    I couldn't help but notice Puupi, you've gone for the first totem breakpoint with haste, maintained decent mastery, but gone full bore on Crit, as far as gemming full crit gems in yellow sockets. With 11k spirit how is your mana holding up, i assume 28% unbuffed crit returns quite a lot?

    I'm also perplexed by your choice of using chain heal glyph over healing stream. Care to enlighten? it surely can't be just because you raid 10 mans and the improved spread healing post buff is better than 10% reduced dmg taken on 2 targets thanks to t15 2pce....

    i is confuse....

  12. #12
    Scarab Lord Puupi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Licarius View Post
    I couldn't help but notice Puupi, you've gone for the first totem breakpoint with haste, maintained decent mastery, but gone full bore on Crit, as far as gemming full crit gems in yellow sockets. With 11k spirit how is your mana holding up, i assume 28% unbuffed crit returns quite a lot?

    I'm also perplexed by your choice of using chain heal glyph over healing stream. Care to enlighten? it surely can't be just because you raid 10 mans and the improved spread healing post buff is better than 10% reduced dmg taken on 2 targets thanks to t15 2pce....

    i is confuse....
    Actually I raided last night with 9k haste and 14k spirit, but didn't like it. After the raid I put back full crit gems. Though I'm tempted to try full spirit+mastery build tonight, too. It will probably suck, but I have to test it.

    According to my tests, the full crit build is the only one guaranteed to work regardless of the encounter, other variations of high spirit+some other stat have felt too weak or unreliable to me. And as I've said earlier, this is for 10 mans only. I bet high spirit builds work fine for 25 mans.

    As far as the glyphs go, I use Chaining for certain fights (in this case, Durumu). If I don't need Chaining, I always use HST glyph.
    Last edited by Puupi; 2013-04-11 at 08:26 AM.
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  13. #13
    How about dropping HST + magma totem during the metagem proc, and recalling 15 seconds later for almost 30k free mana?

  14. #14
    Scarab Lord Puupi's Avatar
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    Here are my notes about the legendary meta gem after my first raid wearing it:

    1. The meta gem procs from ALL NON-DAMAGING spells (including Ghost Wolf, Earthliving Weapon), excluding totems (as far as I have noticed).

    2. The meta gem does NOT proc from HoT ticks, HST ticks, Earth Shield hits etc. It procs from direct spell casts.

    3. The proc is 4 seconds, so it's rather short.

    4. Shamans don't have a good 1 second GCD spammable medium to high mana cost ability to cheese that proc with (like Power Word: Shield, Renew, Rejuvenation, Surging Mist/Glyphed Uplift, Spinning Crane Kick). I think Paladins have this issue as well.

    5. Since the meta gem procs from spell casts (and not randomly from HoT ticks etc.), you should push your "hard cast- cast time" below 2 seconds to effectively get 2 free spellcasts on a proc. By this I mean that HW/GHW/CH cast time should be 1.9 or below. You need to be chaincasting to fit those two spells in the 4 second window.

    6. You can get a sufficient cast time with _7613_ haste rating (AS+raidhaste), which is a breakpoint for Healing Rain, too. In addition, at that amount of haste, your GCD is quite close to 1 second.

    7. If you suddenly get the meta proc and you have queued Riptide for the next GCD, you can fit Riptide+GHW(HS)+GHW(HS) in that 4 second window, too. If you get the proc from Riptide, you can fit 2x GHW/HS + an instant (ES/UE/Totem).

    8. As for now, I strongly recommend getting that 7613 haste rating, if you have good enough gear to do that. If you have 4pc t15 (which I unfortunately don't), 2x RPPM trinkets and the legendary meta gem - I believe this haste threshold is a no-brainer. You might even be able to reach higher haste levels without gimping your mana efficiency too much (probably at 530 ilvl or so).
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  15. #15
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    hai Puupi,

    I was already thinking more off going 5676 haste for 10 mans when you have the 4 piece bonus, as the RT burst can proc AA whereas Healing Rain does not and when you feel more comfortable with your spirit/crit, then you can aim for the 7613 haste. And yes, if you have two RPPM trinkets (I would say mana regen trinkets imo, at least one), then you could go for the new HST tick to make certain it would give an extra tick (8912).

    For 25 mans, I am not too sure, as it's more dependend on your setup and probably better aiming for 25% haste and 25% crit for the time being. But I need some more testing once I acquired the legendary gem (stuck at 12 tablets).
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  16. #16
    Scarab Lord Puupi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schadow View Post
    hai Puupi,

    I was already thinking more off going 5676 haste for 10 mans when you have the 4 piece bonus, as the RT burst can proc AA whereas Healing Rain does not and when you feel more comfortable with your spirit/crit, then you can aim for the 7613 haste. And yes, if you have two RPPM trinkets (I would say mana regen trinkets imo, at least one), then you could go for the new HST tick to make certain it would give an extra tick (8912).

    For 25 mans, I am not too sure, as it's more dependend on your setup and probably better aiming for 25% haste and 25% crit for the time being. But I need some more testing once I acquired the legendary gem (stuck at 12 tablets).
    5676 haste isn't enough to fit in those 2 hard casts on a meta proc. Not even sure if it's enough for 2x tidal waves casts + an instant.
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  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Puupi View Post
    Here are my notes about the legendary meta gem after my first raid wearing it:

    1. The meta gem procs from ALL NON-DAMAGING spells (including Ghost Wolf, Earthliving Weapon), excluding totems (as far as I have noticed).

    2. The meta gem does NOT proc from HoT ticks, HST ticks, Earth Shield hits etc. It procs from direct spell casts.

    3. The proc is 4 seconds, so it's rather short.

    4. Shamans don't have a good 1 second GCD spammable medium to high mana cost ability to cheese that proc with (like Power Word: Shield, Renew, Rejuvenation, Surging Mist/Glyphed Uplift, Spinning Crane Kick). I think Paladins have this issue as well.

    5. Since the meta gem procs from spell casts (and not randomly from HoT ticks etc.), you should push your "hard cast- cast time" below 2 seconds to effectively get 2 free spellcasts on a proc. By this I mean that HW/GHW/CH cast time should be 1.9 or below. You need to be chaincasting to fit those two spells in the 4 second window.

    6. You can get a sufficient cast time with _7613_ haste rating (AS+raidhaste), which is a breakpoint for Healing Rain, too. In addition, at that amount of haste, your GCD is quite close to 1 second.

    7. If you suddenly get the meta proc and you have queued Riptide for the next GCD, you can fit Riptide+GHW(HS)+GHW(HS) in that 4 second window, too. If you get the proc from Riptide, you can fit 2x GHW/HS + an instant (ES/UE/Totem).

    8. As for now, I strongly recommend getting that 7613 haste rating, if you have good enough gear to do that. If you have 4pc t15 (which I unfortunately don't), 2x RPPM trinkets and the legendary meta gem - I believe this haste threshold is a no-brainer. You might even be able to reach higher haste levels without gimping your mana efficiency too much (probably at 530 ilvl or so).
    By using math 1.9 second cast time would be sufficient to get 2 casts yes, but how many times in the encounter you can

    a) Be without moving thsoe full 4 seconds

    b) Don't have GCD or cast in process when the buff procs (basically GCD from riptide)

    c) Actually react within 0.1 sec to start both casts?

    Haven't done any research on matter but it just feels like it might be quite hard.

  18. #18
    Scarab Lord Puupi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctorant View Post
    By using math 1.9 second cast time would be sufficient to get 2 casts yes, but how many times in the encounter you can

    a) Be without moving thsoe full 4 seconds

    b) Don't have GCD or cast in process when the buff procs (basically GCD from riptide)

    c) Actually react within 0.1 sec to start both casts?

    Haven't done any research on matter but it just feels like it might be quite hard.
    a) Quite often?

    b) The meta gem procs from spell CASTS, not HoT ticks etc. as I said earlier. I'll quote myself: "If you get the proc from Riptide, you can fit 2x GHW/HS + an instant (ES/UE/Totem)" If it procs from, say Chain Heal while you are spamming it in Rampage of Megaera. With 7613 haste the proc means your next two Chain Heals are free, at lower haste only one of them is free.

    c) You need to be chain casting in order to get the maximum out of the meta gem (this somewhat applies to lower haste levels, too). You should be chain casting something always as a shaman anyway, unless you are moving. If you aren't, may I ask why?



    EDIT: As the meta gem proc is so short and sudden, you really don't have time to react to the first spell you cast while the buff is on. But with 7613 haste you can make the choice for the second spell you cast while the buff is on. If you have lower haste, you will get the first spell free (which you are already casting) and an instant cast after that.
    Last edited by Puupi; 2013-04-12 at 07:25 AM.
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  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Puupi View Post
    a) Quite often?

    b) The meta gem procs from spell CASTS, not HoT ticks etc. as I said earlier. I'll quote myself: "If you get the proc from Riptide, you can fit 2x GHW/HS + an instant (ES/UE/Totem)" If it procs from, say Chain Heal while you are spamming it in Rampage of Megaera. With 7613 haste the proc means your next two Chain Heals are free, at lower haste only one of them is free.

    c) You need to be chain casting in order to get the maximum out of the meta gem (this somewhat applies to lower haste levels, too). You should be chain casting something always as a shaman anyway, unless you are moving. If you aren't, may I ask why?



    EDIT: As the meta gem proc is so short and sudden, you really don't have time to react to the first spell you cast while the buff is on. But with 7613 haste you can make the choice for the second spell you cast while the buff is on. If you have lower haste, you will get the first spell free (which you are already casting) and an instant cast after that.
    Have you tested if "free spell buff" is calculated when the heal cast is finished or started?

    Because if you queue spell, like we all should like you said, I would believe the spell isn't tagged as free because of the lag.

    This would make 1st spell with the proc cost mana, thus, leading to wasting almost half of the proc.

    I might be wrong, these are just questions because I don't have the gem yet (damn luck, only 11, with all the bosses killed every week).

  20. #20
    Scarab Lord Puupi's Avatar
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    Yes I have tested it. The spell needs to land when the proc is on to be free of mana.
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