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  1. #1

    heroic jin'rokh dispel question

    We tried heroic jin for the first time today. We had some weird implosions happening even without ppl getting dispelled. for eg.
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/w...?s=5368&e=5456
    in this one.. no one was dispelled and yet starlight's ionization killed ppl (this is without the debuff running out).. our priest got randomly dispelled by something.

    our overall wol is
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/w...028/dashboard/
    if anyone wants to see other attempts.

  2. #2
    We've seen it bug out and kill people before. After looking at your logs. http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/w...e=5456&page=20 My guess is the mage ice blocked his and it fell of while in the pool and killed your priest first. We just make sure everyone is out of the pool even those with immunities.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by devilminion View Post
    We tried heroic jin for the first time today. We had some weird implosions happening even without ppl getting dispelled. for eg.
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/w...?s=5368&e=5456
    in this one.. no one was dispelled and yet starlight's ionization killed ppl (this is without the debuff running out).. our priest got randomly dispelled by something.

    our overall wol is
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/w...028/dashboard/
    if anyone wants to see other attempts.
    Dont have time to study the logs myself.

    Just to clarify. Impolsion happens when you kite an orb over an lightning fissure. Make sure to place orbs in good spots so this NEVER occurs.

    Your problem on the other hand was probably ionization. Remember that if someone has a buff and uses some kind of immunity it detonates. For instance bubble/CloS/iceblock will detonate it. Use it pre-emptivly or not at all!

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Stinalicious View Post
    Dont have time to study the logs myself.

    Just to clarify. Impolsion happens when you kite an orb over an lightning fissure. Make sure to place orbs in good spots so this NEVER occurs.

    Your problem on the other hand was probably ionization. Remember that if someone has a buff and uses some kind of immunity it detonates. For instance bubble/CloS/iceblock will detonate it. Use it pre-emptivly or not at all!
    If you are going to immune it you need to do it before the cast, or you will blow up your raid, as i did once or twice while using CloS via symbiosis (no dk) or if you dont want to risk it run out of the puddle and immune it away from everyone and run back in. Safe > sorry

  5. #5
    dk ams is wonky on this fight too.
    ams does not dispel magic debuffs
    however, on this fight, if you time it too late it will remove the magic debuff and set off ionization.
    1) ams beforehand properly - no debuff ever gained, does not set off ionization
    2) ams at the same time ionization is applied - dispels ionization, setting it off
    3) ams late after getting ionization is applied - does nothing (besides absorbing damage from other things)

    probably does the same thing with ice block, etc... (besides the 3rd part)

  6. #6
    As i am tanking (dk) i dont get ionization. We figured that a lot of wipes were caused by implosion but some just obliterated the dps due to ionization getting dispelled but no body used iceblock/dispels to do that.. so i am not sure whats causing those wipes. thats why i linked a particular wipe where that happened.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by devilminion View Post
    As i am tanking (dk) i dont get ionization. We figured that a lot of wipes were caused by implosion but some just obliterated the dps due to ionization getting dispelled but no body used iceblock/dispels to do that.. so i am not sure whats causing those wipes. thats why i linked a particular wipe where that happened.
    Mage used iceblock. Look at the page I linked

  8. #8
    Everyone with immunities should use them before the Ionization cast. Pre-CoS/Block/Bubble/AMS/etc. make it so the debuff is never applied and you can stay in the puddle full time. Using one of those abilities (aside from AMS, I suppose) AFTER Ionization comes out removes the debuff and triggers the explosion.

  9. #9
    Ionization also goes off whenever the duration expires, even if it wasn't dispelled. So if your priest stood in the pool for the entire duration that is definitely going to wipe the raid.
    Last edited by Meleti; 2013-04-10 at 06:44 PM.

  10. #10
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    If you die with ionization, it will detonate. Immunities will set it off as well.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by devilminion View Post
    We tried heroic jin for the first time today. We had some weird implosions happening even without ppl getting dispelled. for eg.
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/w...?s=5368&e=5456
    in this one.. no one was dispelled and yet starlight's ionization killed ppl (this is without the debuff running out).. our priest got randomly dispelled by something.

    our overall wol is
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/w...028/dashboard/
    if anyone wants to see other attempts.
    There's a problem with this fight in that Ionization damage is attributed to the boss rather than the person with the debuff, so when you see Ionization kill someone and then that person's Conduction kill the raid, you assume someone dispelled that person. However, death causes Ionization to be "removed" and instantly triggers its effect. If you dig deep into the expression editor, you'll see

    [01:54:13.181] Jin'rokh the Breaker Ionization Jreida Immune
    [01:54:13.181] Jin'rokh the Breaker's Ionization fades from Jreida
    [01:54:13.181] Jreida gains Ice Block from Jreida
    [01:54:13.181] Jreida casts Ice Block
    AFTER Ionization has already gone out. Of course the question then is, why didn't Jreida's conduction kill the raid? Why was it Starlightsun? The answer: Jreida was not actually standing in the pool at the time.

    [01:54:13.210] Jreida Pyroblast Jin'rokh the Breaker 41423
    The very next line has that 41k Pyroblast. I don't know about you, but I've never seen a level 90 with a 50% damage buff only hit a Pyro for 41k. However, being out of the pool alone doesn't make you safe, it still AoEs in 8 yards, which Starlightsun, who was standing in the pool, got hit by and consequently died from. That triggered the Conduction, and killed half of your raid.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Totaltotemic View Post
    There's a problem with this fight in that Ionization damage is attributed to the boss rather than the person with the debuff, so when you see Ionization kill someone and then that person's Conduction kill the raid, you assume someone dispelled that person. However, death causes Ionization to be "removed" and instantly triggers its effect. If you dig deep into the expression editor, you'll see



    AFTER Ionization has already gone out. Of course the question then is, why didn't Jreida's conduction kill the raid? Why was it Starlightsun? The answer: Jreida was not actually standing in the pool at the time.



    The very next line has that 41k Pyroblast. I don't know about you, but I've never seen a level 90 with a 50% damage buff only hit a Pyro for 41k. However, being out of the pool alone doesn't make you safe, it still AoEs in 8 yards, which Starlightsun, who was standing in the pool, got hit by and consequently died from. That triggered the Conduction, and killed half of your raid.
    Thats some CSI shit

    One could say the results were Shocking.

    YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Totaltotemic View Post
    There's a problem with this fight in that Ionization damage is attributed to the boss rather than the person with the debuff, so when you see Ionization kill someone and then that person's Conduction kill the raid, you assume someone dispelled that person. However, death causes Ionization to be "removed" and instantly triggers its effect. If you dig deep into the expression editor, you'll see



    AFTER Ionization has already gone out. Of course the question then is, why didn't Jreida's conduction kill the raid? Why was it Starlightsun? The answer: Jreida was not actually standing in the pool at the time.



    The very next line has that 41k Pyroblast. I don't know about you, but I've never seen a level 90 with a 50% damage buff only hit a Pyro for 41k. However, being out of the pool alone doesn't make you safe, it still AoEs in 8 yards, which Starlightsun, who was standing in the pool, got hit by and consequently died from. That triggered the Conduction, and killed half of your raid.
    wow that makes a lot of sense. thanks!

  14. #14
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    Most likely someone used an immunity effect too late (after Ionization is applied) and killed everyone else.


  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Totaltotemic View Post
    The very next line has that 41k Pyroblast. I don't know about you, but I've never seen a level 90 with a 50% damage buff only hit a Pyro for 41k.
    That's a non-crit tick from the dot Pyro leaves on it's target my friend. Not the direct blast itself.

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  16. #16
    I'm sorry to say, but Starlightsun did not get killed by the mages Ionization, he got killed by his own after taking Static Burst dmg due to slow tankswaps.

    Now the reason why the rest of the raid died, if Starlightsun says he was outside the pool (which indicated by his 760k dmg taken from Ionization means he wasn't), can be because the Ionization explosion hit the Pool, which also causes the dmg to link to everyone in it.

    However, in this case, he died in pool, easily seen from him taking double the dmg you're supposed to take, and thus killed the rest.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Vakna View Post
    That's a non-crit tick from the dot Pyro leaves on it's target my friend. Not the direct blast itself.
    Oh, well, regardless, he clearly gained Ice Block after Ionization went out, and blew up the raid.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-10 at 08:14 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Zorlox View Post
    I'm sorry to say, but Starlightsun did not get killed by the mages Ionization, he got killed by his own after taking Static Burst dmg due to slow tankswaps.

    Now the reason why the rest of the raid died, if Starlightsun says he was outside the pool (which indicated by his 760k dmg taken from Ionization means he wasn't), can be because the Ionization explosion hit the Pool, which also causes the dmg to link to everyone in it.

    However, in this case, he died in pool, easily seen from him taking double the dmg you're supposed to take, and thus killed the rest.
    Bullshit, the Static Burst damage was a whole 3 seconds before the priest died. It was before Ionization was even on the raid. Also you need to have the pool debuff for Conduction to occur, and no one said anything about him being outside the pool anyways.
    Last edited by Totaltotemic; 2013-04-11 at 01:15 AM.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Totaltotemic View Post
    Bullshit, the Static Burst damage was a whole 3 seconds before the priest died. It was before Ionization was even on the raid. Also you need to have the pool debuff for Conduction to occur, and no one said anything about him being outside the pool anyways.
    he also got tons of heals after the static burst

  19. #19
    yeah star was inside the pool. everyone just died suddenly (except for tanks) which means that someone got dispelled inside but no one dispelled anyone.. ia m guessing the wonky dispel bug or w/e u wanna call it happened.. perhaps u need to iceblock before dbm warning for ionization goes out like the AMS thingy for static burst.


    also speaking of static burst.. u mentioned that tank swaps were late.. thing is for like 3-4 seconds both tanks have the debuff.. so for those 3 seconds the raid takes static burst dmg regardless of taunt swapping right? or is there a non cheesy way to avoid that?

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by devilminion View Post
    yeah star was inside the pool. everyone just died suddenly (except for tanks) which means that someone got dispelled inside but no one dispelled anyone.. ia m guessing the wonky dispel bug or w/e u wanna call it happened.. perhaps u need to iceblock before dbm warning for ionization goes out like the AMS thingy for static burst.


    also speaking of static burst.. u mentioned that tank swaps were late.. thing is for like 3-4 seconds both tanks have the debuff.. so for those 3 seconds the raid takes static burst dmg regardless of taunt swapping right? or is there a non cheesy way to avoid that?
    There's no dispel bug. You need to use immunities BEFORE Ionization goes out. What happened there was the mage Iceblocked after it had already gone out, which made it kill the priest which conducted into the whole raid.

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