1. #1
    Elemental Lord Noomz's Avatar
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    Unhappy Infractions without context

    Perhaps this isn't a topic that is allowed as a thread, I'm unsure. But I do hope that it can be discussed. While I don't want to discuss lifting any infractions in this thread nor will I try to appeal either or any of them in this thread, I do wish to discuss the way they were handled and dealt or atleast express my dismay at how it was done.

    If you think this should be adressed in a PM discussion, I'll do so. Though I think that this should be shown openly, as it doesn't just concern one person.



    I'm slightly worried by the fact that a guy like this, that is provoked by a trolling post is punished for reacting.
    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post20786801

    I know people should know better than to fall for such provocation, but punishing people who don't remember that it ain't worth getting riled up by such things is absurd.
    The original poster, the thread started, had clearly and quite obviously written a post to provoke/troll. The poster has since been BANNED for this but the original post remains UNEDITED and the thread OPEN. This reminds me of how there are laws against police provoking crime. You are allowing people to be provoked, then punishing them for being provoked.

    Even I got an infraction for pointing out that the thread creator DID troll. I was punished for pointing out a BANNED TROLL was banned for being a troll.
    The rule is that you are not allowed to call other posters trolls. This would or should apply to a normal discussion in which posters cannot agree and are simply resulting to calling one another trolls, in which case it would be reasonable to infract those involved.

    This is all about the word used, I wrote the word "troll". Had I written something like "It was good this guy was banned, it's obvious he only tried to provoke and incite flames." I would not have been punished.

    It is absurd and illogical to a point at which at first I sat with my mouth wide open and wondering if this was for real.
    Please, moderators, don't act without considering a context. A context which the moderators themselves have allowed.
    The punishing and hunting wrong-doers is starting to go too far, and some times infractions seem much less like a reasonable punishment and more like the actions of someone bored or vindictive.


    This way of infracting people ensures that some will over a longer period of time make mistakes every now and then, eventually building up to a ban. I've been there, and it's not fun.


    Don't see people as numbers and infractions, see people for people and recognize that mistakes are made. I know you have a lot to do as mods, but you can't forget context and reason when it comes to handling infractions.
    Last edited by Noomz; 2013-04-10 at 09:21 PM.

  2. #2
    Moderator Endus's Avatar
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    A few things, without getting into any specific cases;

    1> If you have an issue with an infraction, PM a mod. We'll create an infraction appeal thread in the mod-only appeals forum for you, and it will be reviewed by the mod staff.

    2> Posting just to call someone a troll is outlined in the rules and forbidden; check the last line of the "spamming and trolling" section of the rules; http://www.mmo-champion.com/faq.php?...orumrules_spam
    The reason for this is that it contributes nothing if someone opens a thread with something controversial, and everyone replies with "lol, troll, 0/10 would not read again". If you think it's trolling, please just report the post and let the mod staff handle it. It's much the same reason we don't allow "this" or "+1" posts, either; it's spam and doesn't contribute to the discussion.

    3> Same for cases where someone's provoking you. Report the post, let us handle it. Responding in like means that now you are creating as much of a problem as the person who instigated it. If one guy takes a swing at another in a bar, and they both get into a brawl, the cops are going to haul them both downtown. Same thing here; bad behaviour by someone else does not excuse you reacting badly yourself.

  3. #3
    Heck I was infracted for posting a relevant news story. People chose to come into the thread I created, called me troll(which I reported), and said personally negative things about me(which I reported). None of them were infracted, yet I was, just for posting a news story.

    So goes MMO moderators.

  4. #4
    Pandaren Monk Maruka's Avatar
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    I was infracted once for telling a kid to go back to school so yeah, if you havent figured it out yet, dont post anything but ass kissing remarks and you will be fine.

  5. #5
    Legendary! vindicatorx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luftmangle View Post
    Heck I was infracted for posting a relevant news story. People chose to come into the thread I created, called me troll(which I reported), and said personally negative things about me(which I reported). None of them were infracted, yet I was, just for posting a news story.

    So goes MMO moderators.
    Thats nothing man I got infracted because the guy who had been harassing me in PM's reported one of my responses calling him mentally challenged. I appealed it and got the typical scrapbot response of "Deal with it". I worked at a prison for 3 years, and have never seen the magnitude of power wielding as is done on here.
    Last edited by vindicatorx; 2013-04-10 at 10:08 PM.

  6. #6
    Legendary! Tommo's Avatar
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    Most of the infractions I see are needlessly over the top. It would be fun for someone to create a compilation video on youtube of rediculous infractions.

  7. #7
    Old God Frozenbeef's Avatar
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    They should make a tip section to avoid infractions :S mine- Don't encourage the usa to go to war with north korea :S

  8. #8
    No one should ever be infracted for posting in a Jaylock thread. The guy takes the most sensitive buttons and beats them with a hammer, and they let him do it, over and over again.

  9. #9
    Legendary! vindicatorx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tommo View Post
    Most of the infractions I see are needlessly over the top. It would be fun for someone to create a compilation video on youtube of rediculous infractions.
    I think that would be a multiple film project to be honest

  10. #10
    Legendary! Holo's Avatar
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    To be honest with you, much of the infractions i have seen in the time being here were totally unneccesary. A simple slap on the fingers will do 9/10 times. Infracting at first sight is just dumb imo.

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  11. #11
    The Unstoppable Force Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Most of the infractions I see are necessary. The ones I get eh unnecessary.
    Blizzard do not destroy Jaina Proudmoore's character. Make her who she once was, not full of rage and vengeance.,If you are curious about me or about my writing aspirations, feel free to pst me. Paladin-Sorcerer at your service! http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...htsongg/simple https://twitter.com/Aeluron1989

  12. #12
    Pandaren Monk Maruka's Avatar
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    Really if you want to see a well run section, the computer section is great. They hand out so many warnings in threads there and almost never infract unless it is totally necessary.

    Also has anyone ever got an infraction overturned?

  13. #13
    Legendary! Holo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maruka View Post
    Really if you want to see a well run section, the computer section is great. They hand out so many warnings in threads there and almost never infract unless it is totally necessary.

    Also has anyone ever got an infraction overturned?
    I personally do not agree. Although it's been getting better lately.

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  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Holo View Post
    To be honest with you, much of the infractions i have seen in the time being here were totally unneccesary. A simple slap on the fingers will do 9/10 times. Infracting at first sight is just dumb imo.
    Infractions on this forum are basically "slaps on the fingers." You get infracted, maybe banned after a few infractions, and then the infractions expire and you can post again. You either learn your lesson and stop breaking the rules or you continue getting infracted and banned.

    There is no freedom of speech on this forum. You do not have a right to post. If you break the rules, you receive a slap on the wrist in the form of an infraction. That's how it should be. If you don't like it, you are more than welcome to post elsewhere.

  15. #15
    Brewmaster Wiyld's Avatar
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    My personal favorite is when the non native English speaking mods don't understand the post entirely and they ban based on their incapacity to get what was being posted. It almost feels as if it isn't entirely dumbed down and written in crayon you MUST be a pompous douche and deserve a ban.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gillern View Post
    "IM LOOKING AT A THING I DONT LIKE, I HAVE THE OPTION TO GO AWAY FROM IT BUT I WILL LOOK MORE AND COMPLAIN ABOUT THE THING I DONT LIKE BECAUSE I DONT LIKE IT, NO ONE IS FORCING ME TO SEARCH FOR THIS THING OR LOOK AT THIS THING OR REMAIN LOOKING AT THIS THING BUT I AM ANYWAY, ITS OFFENDS ME! ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME!!!"
    Troof

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Maruka View Post
    Also has anyone ever got an infraction overturned?
    It happens occasionally, which normally results in the person getting unbanned at the same time.

  17. #17
    The Unstoppable Force Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maruka View Post
    Really if you want to see a well run section, the computer section is great. They hand out so many warnings in threads there and almost never infract unless it is totally necessary.

    Also has anyone ever got an infraction overturned?

    Unless you count the infraction points expiring then no. I even contacted them to appeal. I haven't gotten a response.
    Blizzard do not destroy Jaina Proudmoore's character. Make her who she once was, not full of rage and vengeance.,If you are curious about me or about my writing aspirations, feel free to pst me. Paladin-Sorcerer at your service! http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...htsongg/simple https://twitter.com/Aeluron1989

  18. #18
    Miss Doctor Lady Bear Sunshine's Avatar
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    If you want to appeal a specific infraction, PM a mod and ask them to make an appeal thread. All of the mods will look at it, just like they do for ban appeals, and you'll receive a response in a few days. Infractions are overturned when they were given in error; appealing is not a magic button where "appeal = automatically unbanned".

    We have the rules against pointing out trolls and against counter-flaming because these things really don't help anything. If someone's being an ass in the thread, the last thing the thread needs is for more people to be asses back. Report it, let a mod take care of the person, and in the mean time keep the thread on track ignoring that person.

    I know sometimes it's hard to let something go by, especially when someone's really being an ass, and we try to give some leeway in these cases... but it's also important for us to be consistent and it's really more disruptive to the thread to have people respond like this.

    Sometimes mistakes happen, and that's why we have the infraction system working like it does -- it takes 3 minor infractions to get a ban, and the points expire after a while.


    If you have questions or comments, or if you want to make complaints about a particular situation or the system as a whole, please PM me with specific examples and I'm happy to take a look.

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