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  1. #1
    Stood in the Fire Colmadero's Avatar
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    Do 3 ilvls make such a big difference?

    Greetings,

    Before we start, my armory link: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...adero/advanced
    and the other pally's armory link: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...inary/advanced

    As you can see we both have somewhat high haste and we are only about 3 ilvls apart but on raid nights he totally obliterates me.

    This is a parse from our Jin'rohk 1 shot last night: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/8.../?s=849&e=1152

    In this parse you might not see much of a difference due to the nature of the fight but in other fights or attempts I get obliterated in dps compared to him. Anything you guys could see or analyze? Gemming or speccing? SOMETHING? I want to make my dps a lot better to not hinder our guild.
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  2. #2
    He did not "Obliterate" you in Dps. He did 5 Mil more Dmg which honestly is not a lot. He also has a 502 Weapon so naturally he will be higher. You should know weapon Dps is huge for any Dps.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Theforgoten View Post
    He also has a 502 Weapon so naturally he will be higher.
    Not to mention set bonuses. OP is not wearing any tier at all.

  4. #4
    Stood in the Fire Colmadero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theforgoten View Post
    He did not "Obliterate" you in Dps. He did 5 Mil more Dmg which honestly is not a lot. He also has a 502 Weapon so naturally he will be higher. You should know weapon Dps is huge for any Dps.
    Like I said, not in this fight but in OTHER fights he does.
    Quote Originally Posted by themightysven View Post
    don't forget he who Sargeras fears: Milhouse Manastorm. (Stonecore was merely a setback)
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  5. #5
    Stood in the Fire Colmadero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gnarles Malarkey View Post
    Not to mention set bonuses. OP is not wearing any tier at all.
    I haven't been lucky with tier at ALL. I got some t15 gloves laying around and as soon as I get another T15 piece, I'm replacing them.
    Quote Originally Posted by themightysven View Post
    don't forget he who Sargeras fears: Milhouse Manastorm. (Stonecore was merely a setback)
    My armory

  6. #6
    "obliterated" is a bit over the top

    And 502 Weapons > 483 Sha Touched for melle by quite a way.

  7. #7
    Warchief IRunSoFarAway's Avatar
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    your 483 vs his 502 weapon, look at the average damage of some of his abilities, a weapon really makes a big difference in dps.
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  8. #8
    Over 9000! MerinPally's Avatar
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    15% more damage on TV and then a better weapon. Also, you're not expertise capped. I'm no ret expert so I don't know whether because it's so close, it'd be a dps loss to get it, but yeah... Those first 2 add up.

  9. #9
    Stood in the Fire Colmadero's Avatar
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    Thanks for the input. I did suspect that the weapon could be a decisive factor but I wanted input. Now to farm and hope for that 2 hander QQ
    Quote Originally Posted by themightysven View Post
    don't forget he who Sargeras fears: Milhouse Manastorm. (Stonecore was merely a setback)
    My armory

  10. #10
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
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    1) Not all average item levels are created equal.

    2) Based on the logs, he also outplayed you.

    (Hint: You made the same sucker mistake I make almost every week in my weekly guild LFR I do as Ret)

  11. #11
    He has better weapon, better trinkets, 1500 more haste aaand, being Jin'Rokh in that parse, you used your biggest CDs at the start, while he used them during first pool along with heroism and the Zandalari transformation. Also you didn't use Strength pots while he used 2 pots (second at first pool, even). You used Iron Wok too early at the start, not aligned with your biggest CDs (try overlapping the final 15seconds of GoAK+AW, not the first).
    That's why, at start, your dps goes up to 200k, his up to 150k, but at first pool, your dps at 300k, but his is at almost 600k. Notice the higher and wider spike over your own. Even if your had at the middle of the fight a spike up to 300k, more than him, the first pool gave him the lead on you.

    The same exact behaviour can be seen in your Council tries (looked only into the final try).

    Anyway, you say about other fights as well, but, as you can see, you can't determine and pinpoint a single reason while A has more DPS than B. It's a complete package: gear+skill. The two can't go separate ways. They complement each other, but cannot take each other's place.
    Last edited by SirRaven; 2013-04-11 at 12:58 AM. Reason: Additions

  12. #12
    You're using Quick Serpent's Eye over the Bold Serpent's Eye, which is a loss in DPS. You're missing the socket bonus for your chest and pants, which 120 str > other stats.

    Change the red socket in chest to Bold Serpent's Eye and blue socket to hit/haste.
    Belt prismatic socket to Bold Serpent's Eye.
    Pants red socket to haste/str and blue socket to hit/haste.

    If you're finding yourself over hit capped, even after reforging, just change your cape enchant to crit over hit.

    You had 40 secs of uptime on ES, across a 5 minute fight (missed 1, nearly 2 casts)

    Other than that, seems like a gear issue more than anything.

  13. #13
    Weapon DPS is everything for a melee DPS.

    If you happen to cap arena, you can also aim for Tyrannical Weapon.

    Don't laugh - it's still a 498 weapon. With my gear I moved from LFR Shinka to that Tyrannical Greatsword for almost 4K increase in DPS. Maybe 6, I cannot remember. Remember that PVP stats are not in item budget so a 498 PVP weapon is still a 498 PVE weapon in terms of pure stats.

    Obviously pray hard for a Bo-Ris or that Meratt greatsword he has as thats even better.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Booniehat View Post
    Weapon DPS is everything for a melee DPS.

    If you happen to cap arena, you can also aim for Tyrannical Weapon.

    Don't laugh - it's still a 498 weapon. With my gear I moved from LFR Shinka to that Tyrannical Greatsword for almost 4K increase in DPS. Maybe 6, I cannot remember. Remember that PVP stats are not in item budget so a 498 PVP weapon is still a 498 PVE weapon in terms of pure stats.

    Obviously pray hard for a Bo-Ris or that Meratt greatsword he has as thats even better.
    I believe weapons and shields are affected in stats because of their huge PvP power. If you look at them, they all only have one secondary PvE stat. Still, a 498 PvP weapon will have MUCH more weapon damage, and will still be superior to a LFR Shin'ka.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Serani View Post
    You're using Quick Serpent's Eye over the Bold Serpent's Eye, which is a loss in DPS. You're missing the socket bonus for your chest and pants, which 120 str > other stats.

    Change the red socket in chest to Bold Serpent's Eye and blue socket to hit/haste.
    Belt prismatic socket to Bold Serpent's Eye.
    Pants red socket to haste/str and blue socket to hit/haste.

    If you're finding yourself over hit capped, even after reforging, just change your cape enchant to crit over hit.

    You had 40 secs of uptime on ES, across a 5 minute fight (missed 1, nearly 2 casts)

    Other than that, seems like a gear issue more than anything.
    my main spec is holy and not ret, but afaik 1 haste > 1 str for ret atm. So why would he gem str with his jc gems?

    I mean, I could be wrong.
    Last edited by Proberly; 2013-04-12 at 04:36 PM.

  16. #16
    Yes, like some others have mentioned Weapon damage is pretty huge you also have the use trinket where his are a bit better gear wise anyway.

  17. #17
    Aside from the significant gear advantage he has, you also mistimed your CD's. You can use ES right away but would have been better served by waiting on GoAK(and possibly AV, not sure on the timing there as I don't play ret) for the first pool, and making sure you align as many CD's/trinkets as you can during periods when the pool is up. On fights with huge damaging increasing phases or periods of downtime it is important to learn how to use your CD's optimally. A lot of people jump to gear discrepancies right away, as it is easier to blame an inferior performance on that. In your case you are disadvantaged gear wise, but you could also improve your performance on a fight by fight basis by studying them BEFOREHAND and determining when to use CDs.
    Last edited by Skarssen; 2013-04-12 at 04:42 PM.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Proberly View Post
    my main spec is holy and not ret, but afaik 1 haste > 1 str for ret atm. So why would he gem str with his jc gems?

    I mean, I could be wrong.
    2 haste >= 1 str. That's why we gem haste, since haste gems are 320 stats vs 160 str.

    JC gems are stupid, and give double primary stats (320 str) but not double secondary (only 480 haste). 320 STR = 640 haste, so better off with STR serpent's eyes.

    OT, big issues were covered, but against ALL that you know, do NOT pop CDs before JinRohk is in the pool. Missing tier bonuses and a weapon will suck, but poor play/timing on a HUGELY CD reliant spec will not do you any favors either.
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  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Proberly View Post
    my main spec is holy and not ret, but afaik 1 haste > 1 str for ret atm. So why would he gem str with his jc gems?

    I mean, I could be wrong.
    Normally gems have 160 primary 320 secondary. Haste is slightly more than 1/2 a Str, which is why you gem for it, because you get it at a 2:1 ratio. JC gems are 320 and 480 secondary. Thus, you would need around 600+ haste on a gem to make it better.

  20. #20
    I am Murloc! Huntingbear_grimbatol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psilar View Post
    Normally gems have 160 primary 320 secondary. Haste is slightly more than 1/2 a Str, which is why you gem for it, because you get it at a 2:1 ratio. JC gems are 320 and 480 secondary. Thus, you would need around 600+ haste on a gem to make it better.
    which is why JC is horrible for rets this expo, come epic gems and the thing is going to be even more obvious.
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