Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst
1
2
3
4
LastLast
  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by shadowboy View Post
    I find having fast swing times fun.
    So do I. But when so much of Rogue damage is tied into the passiveness of SnD (white attacks, poisons)... that's not fun.

    Quote Originally Posted by shadowboy View Post
    And if Blizzard caves to the 99% and stacks combo points on the rogue, I'd be very disappointed in them. That would be a bad design move for the class, imo.
    Why? I'm genuinely interested in how this could possibly be a bad design choice other than "hurr homogenization".
    "I will say, I think it passing odd that I am loved by one for a kindness I never did, and reviled by so many for my finest act."

  2. #42
    Legendary! Holo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    6,287
    Quote Originally Posted by Silent Earth View Post
    Why? I'm genuinely interested in how this could possibly be a bad design choice other than "hurr homogenization".
    Would be the biggest PvP buff you can possebly give Rogues without giving new abilities or completely overhauling them.

    i5-3570k @ 4.4GHz|8GB DDR3 1600MHz|EVGA GTX 670 FTW x2 SLI|Samsung 830 128GB SSD

  3. #43
    The Patient
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    282
    How's SnD different from any other class/spec's buff/debuffs though? DoTs dropping is pretty much the same as SnD dropping..
    Every example in here can be applied to any class and any spec. Maybe SnD does too much, but lets say they did shift alot of DPS gain from it to other finisher, it's not like you'd stop having a 100% uptime either, I just don't see why this is such a huge rogue issue when most classes are tailored the same way.

  4. #44
    Legendary! Holo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    6,287
    Quote Originally Posted by Iso View Post
    How's SnD different from any other class/spec's buff/debuffs though? DoTs dropping is pretty much the same as SnD dropping..
    Every example in here can be applied to any class and any spec. Maybe SnD does too much, but lets say they did shift alot of DPS gain from it to other finisher, it's not like you'd stop having a 100% uptime either, I just don't see why this is such a huge rogue issue when most classes are tailored the same way.
    Because SnD doesn't really do anything. It makes other stuff do more. And having to keep something up for other stuff to do better is pretty damn boring.

    Tbh at this stage in the game it might aswell be passive.

    i5-3570k @ 4.4GHz|8GB DDR3 1600MHz|EVGA GTX 670 FTW x2 SLI|Samsung 830 128GB SSD

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Iso View Post
    How's SnD different from any other class/spec's buff/debuffs though? DoTs dropping is pretty much the same as SnD dropping..
    Every example in here can be applied to any class and any spec. Maybe SnD does too much, but lets say they did shift alot of DPS gain from it to other finisher, it's not like you'd stop having a 100% uptime either, I just don't see why this is such a huge rogue issue when most classes are tailored the same way.
    Except no other class has a short time self buff that does visually nothing and is used by all 3 specs.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Holo View Post
    Would be the biggest PvP buff you can possebly give Rogues without giving new abilities or completely overhauling them.
    Game-wide ramifications does not equate to bad design philosophy. Thank god the developers don't have that line of thought each time they go to make changes to the game: "Well, we better not change this thing, because then we would have to change that thing, too..."

    Point is, I have yet to see anyone point out how it would be bad for the class, rather than bad for other classes because x,y,z, which is as backward thinking as it gets.
    "I will say, I think it passing odd that I am loved by one for a kindness I never did, and reviled by so many for my finest act."

  7. #47
    Legendary! Holo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    6,287
    Quote Originally Posted by Silent Earth View Post
    Game-wide ramifications does not equate to bad design philosophy. Thank god the developers don't have that line of thought each time they go to make changes to the game: "Well, we better not change this thing, because then we would have to change that thing, too..."

    Point is, I have yet to see anyone point out how it would be bad for the class, rather than bad for other classes because x,y,z, which is as backward thinking as it gets.
    Well, if you don't think outside of the box.. very bad things are going to happen lol. Blizzard knows that stacking combo's on ourselves would cause major issues PvP wise.. big enough to not make the Quality of Life change for PvE.. And that means its BIG.

    Seriously though, this change isn't going to happen. It's not just a simple fact of "change this.. and then this aswell". It's more like of a "change this.. and everything else will be completely fucked unless we totally redesign shit"

    i5-3570k @ 4.4GHz|8GB DDR3 1600MHz|EVGA GTX 670 FTW x2 SLI|Samsung 830 128GB SSD

  8. #48
    SnD strengthening other abilities is just something classes like monks and paladins have, (inquisition, and tiger power) I don't think such things are getting changed. And it is a good thing, keeps these classes, from becoming "BUTTON MASHERS" (which I am aware that alot of rogues probably grow tired of from playing a rogue in the past ).
    Monk main Casual

    people putting quotes in signatures are often retarded according to science.

  9. #49
    The reason combo points shouldn't stack on the rogue: Much like SnD, it's a skill differentiator. A good rogue manages combo points well and tying them to a target allows the men to be separated from the boys, so to speak. Furthermore, theme behind them is that you unleash combinations on a target to deal a devastating move later. Having them stack on the rogue violates that theme, the problem is finishers aren't threatening enough to stay true to that theme either, which is why I feel finisher damage needs to come up and SnD needs to last longer. I'm not terribly against the idea of SnD being removed from at least assassination, either. Cut to the chase offers no depth to the spec and playing around the envenom buff does a good job of creating depth.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Vendredii View Post
    There are a lot of problems with rogues but by far the most annoying in my opinion is the energy regeneration. I play a sub rogue, and even with SnD rolling energy still seems really slow. I hate how just to be at our peak we have to have SnD up and rupture/garrote for the 20% damage increase. It just takes too long to get all of them up when you need them and keep track of them especially when switching targets. Also since all I do is pvp i have to keep recuperate up as well for healing purposes. In my opinion i think SnD should just be removed from the game and rogues passive energy regen should be increased and all rogue attacks should have a chance to give back some energy, haste should be increased to make up for loss of SnD. I know a lot of people will be against this because SnD has been in the game forever but since MoP has come out i feel energy starved all the time, and on the 5.3 ptr it seems even more slow even if its not i don't know. I'm just expressing my opinion, something should be done about combo point management and energy regeneration, it makes rogues frustrating to play and takes away from the fun i used to have on my rogue. I'm not saying that rogues need to be buffed a lot, I certainly don't want to faceroll over everything like rogues were in Cata, but I would like to feel on par with other classes without the frustrating difficulty of energy starvation.

    i want to point out that this other player is talking about the same i was tlaking about in other threads. the crappy resource regen when we get wasted 20-20 times given because our class is nerf for free honor kills.

    see bottom line is combo points should cost 20 energy to get. this really does work because it gives the players more 5 cp finishers to make our finishers count for overall dps on our charts. stuff like expertese and hit should be higher base benefit so we may take our stats into haste mastery. they just say they care about balance when you look at the numbers of rogues death is crazy. more people would like the experaince if it was actualy taken into consideration. players that i find be threatend by rogues do Not know anything about them. so why should i make a shaman if my rogue is apparently god when look at him; he gets slayed everytime. oh yea rogue are so god op. bull**** they just want free honor kills with out working ass' to get. not to mention that you have to have macros do your insane 96k dps rotation crap. take the damge Hitpoint healing macros away from that leave macros to buffs emotes professions like that. every hacker runs this game when it come to a simple gamer using his paws.

    please do not talk your sh** to my face i spent 5 years wasting my time on your rogue deployment. the balance is we are outcasts big deal; at least we have our fair chance at getting back at them? /laughs none cares about a rogue to give him the time of day.
    Last edited by Thieves cant; 2013-04-25 at 02:50 AM.

  11. #51
    I am Murloc! Thelxi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    5,243
    SnD should go away. While they are at it they should delete inquisition and savage roar too. Warlocks got improved soulfire scrapped, why not everybody else?

  12. #52
    There's nothing wrong with energy regen, it's nice having a resource system that isn't completely redundant and infinite like all the fucking Disney mana classes.

  13. #53
    What if they made finishers cost CP and not energy?

  14. #54
    The Patient wxcopy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Alberta
    Posts
    308
    Quote Originally Posted by Vanthem View Post

    Btw, if you think Rogue Regen is awful, try playing a PvP Feral. That shit is 100 times worse than a Rogue.
    Lucky for you, they baked Renataki's Charm of Trickery into your spells, while completely removing all energy restoring items for rogues.

  15. #55
    slice and dice being mandatory for so many expansions is just damn boring. rogues need an overhaul so bad

  16. #56
    Brewmaster Buxton McGraff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Covina, California
    Posts
    1,451
    Rogue Energy is only shit because of the lame 5% who have a fuck ton of haste and don't like the spammy rotation.

    I would MUCH more prefer to have faster energy regen and little downtime.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by rheajr86 View Post
    What if they made finishers cost CP and not energy?
    Wouldn't change overall energy regen, they'd adjust the energy cost of other abilities and/or base energy regen to compensate.

    But it would be more elegant IMO.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Karnige View Post
    slice and dice being mandatory for so many expansions is just damn boring. rogues need an overhaul so bad
    I really don't understand the hostility to SnD. You want to spam Evisc/Envenom?

    I'd be fine with different specs getting different things to manage though, one of them being SnD.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    Look Batman really isn't an accurate source by any means
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    It is a fact, not just something I made up.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Holo View Post
    Well, if you don't think outside of the box.. very bad things are going to happen lol. Blizzard knows that stacking combo's on ourselves would cause major issues PvP wise.. big enough to not make the Quality of Life change for PvE.. And that means its BIG.

    Seriously though, this change isn't going to happen. It's not just a simple fact of "change this.. and then this aswell". It's more like of a "change this.. and everything else will be completely fucked unless we totally redesign shit"
    I don't think it would have as huge of ramifications in PvP as you allude to. Back when Versatility was a talent, nobody took it. Zero cooldown redirect, which is one global cooldown away from combo points on the rogue, and nobody took it. Both of the other options were much better in PvP.

    Yes, it would be a major buff. Completely game breaking without an overhaul? Hell no.

    On the other hand, combo points on the rogue would also be the biggest quality of life change possible for PvE rogues. There's so many bugs that make combo points disappear with no way to redirect them back, and rogues are at a massive disadvantage when it comes to switching to anything that lasts <10 seconds (which is most adds these days). Its really the most frustrating, anti-fun part of playing a rogue.

  19. #59
    I should be a beta tester for blizzard, specifically just rogue.

    when they designed the class for energy and combo points there was a strength component with agility that made your overall damage very nice. there are five combo points. just thinking with common sense the resource should also be based on a 1/5 scale because there are five combo points. if combo point generators cost 25 energy then the scale would be 1/4 and there are 5/5 combo points.

    makes sense to have the resource of energy match the resource of combo points on a 1/5 scale.

    on the issue of slice and dice and recuperate. makes sense to have slice and dice and recuperate stack on a one combo point for buff; through out your rotation you may get by with one combo point every 6 seconds or so spent into slice and dice and recuperate while moving most combo points over to eviscerate, envenom and rupture.

    the cost of all rogue abilities except the combo generators should also match a 1/5 scale and damage appropriate for out of stealth burst. when it comes to range hunters and casters; its best to use your damage over time effects on them because their mobility is far greater than what a rogue is currant. The best finisher is eviscerate and envenom it smashes your target with straight damage instant. if the changes are made there is more energy devoted to eviscerate and envenom available to match what other class's are pulling for their damage rotations.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by regularcustomer View Post
    I should be a beta tester for blizzard, specifically just rogue.
    Disagree entirely. What you say makes absolutely zero sense.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •