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  1. #421
    Quote Originally Posted by HardCoder View Post
    I don't know how you would do that.

    I mean, I really can't think of a way you could do that without spending a whole lot of gold, and having another toon with maxed reps to help you. But even then, I don't know how you could go from "fresh 90" to 485 in 2 days.
    Get a toon, rush lots of heroics, loot 463, transform JP in Honor points and get 476 PVP items (they're good, despite what you may think).
    Optional > Get to Isle of thunder and drop your Key to the Palace of lei shen to have lots of coins
    Go LFR and coin on everything > 32% drop + coins = Loot everywhere. You'll most likely be almost able to do ToT LFR.
    Run ToT LFR.
    Do Sha/Galleon and use coins.
    Still farm heroics and replace your last blues (if you still have some) with 476 PVP stuff.


    There you go.
    Last edited by Eihwaz; 2013-04-12 at 08:03 AM.
    Made by mountandpetlover, big thanks !

  2. #422
    Quote Originally Posted by HardCoder View Post
    I don't know how you would do that.

    I mean, I really can't think of a way you could do that without spending a whole lot of gold, and having another toon with maxed reps to help you. But even then, I don't know how you could go from "fresh 90" to 485 in 2 days.
    Farm heroics --> 463, get farm isle get coints, run first wing of lfr --> get to 470, run 2nd wind of lfr with more coints --> 480 --> chain que for all of ToT, you're probably going to get 1 piece out of 3 parts, spend valor on one of the ToT rep vendors --> probably 485 at this point.

  3. #423
    Quote Originally Posted by Eihwaz View Post
    Get a toon, rush lots of heroics, loot 463, transform JP in Honor points and get 476 PVP items (they're good, despite what you may think).
    Optional > Get to Isle of thunder and drop your Key to the Palace of lei shen to have lots of coins
    Go LFR and coin on everything > 32% drop + coins = Loot everywhere. You'll most likely be almost able to do ToT LFR.
    Run ToT LFR.
    Do Sha/Galleon and use coins.
    Still farm heroics and replace your last blues (if you still have some) with 476 PVP stuff.


    There you go.
    So adding up all those 476's from pvp and 483's from t14 lfr magically gives you 485?

    To get to 485 you'd need to win at least 5/6 peices in lfr or buy 522's.


    Quote Originally Posted by celinamuna View Post
    Farm heroics --> 463, get farm isle get coints, run first wing of lfr --> get to 470, run 2nd wind of lfr with more coints --> 480 --> chain que for all of ToT, you're probably going to get 1 piece out of 3 parts, spend valor on one of the ToT rep vendors --> probably 485 at this point.
    Unless you ding on the day before reset and get 2k VP on the two days then valor gear isnt available to you since it costs 1250 VP.

  4. #424
    Quote Originally Posted by HardCoder View Post
    Actually, given that heroic should be something only the top 5-10% of serious guilds can clear before the next tier, normal mode should affect "pretty much everyone."

    The problem is that normal mode isn't for everyone, it's for that same 5-10% that don't give a shit about it and are only interested in heroic.

    Casual, right now, is a guild that is stuck on NORMAL Horridon or Council, at least before these nerfs. Period. That is your "casual" guild. "Casual" is the capability of the bottom 50% of guilds that, with whatever preparation the "average" player has, go forth and tries to kill pixel dragons.

    Bear in mind, most guilds never try to raid. The real "casual" player is one who never raids (other than LFR).
    That's fine and all but there's already > 15% of guilds who full cleared normal and in heroics.

    And more than 50% of the guilds already killed council....

    Quote Originally Posted by Deja Thoris View Post
    Unless you ding on the day before reset and get 2k VP on the two days then valor gear isnt available to you since it costs 1250 VP.
    Arghh, i got too used that i usually ding on sunday (or at least i did for my last 4 lvl 90's) which did give me basically double lock outs in 2 day period.

    As an alternative can buy someone from the old reduced priced valor pieces the first week.
    Last edited by celinamuna; 2013-04-12 at 08:10 AM.

  5. #425
    Quote Originally Posted by Deja Thoris View Post
    So adding up all those 476's from pvp and 483's from t14 lfr magically gives you 485?

    To get to 485 you'd need to win at least 5/6 peices in lfr or buy 522's.




    Unless you ding on the day before reset and get 2k VP on the two days then valor gear isnt available to you since it costs 1250 VP.

    My toon had like some valor from I don't know where so I was able to buy the neck with the VP. Anyway you'll get it the next week because of the VP cap.
    You can also buy the 496 Hands/Chest they are now cheaper than ever
    Sha/Galleon drop 496 and sha quest gives you 476 boots.
    ToT LFR is 502, there's now 9 boss, good chance you'll have at least one item
    Oondasta drops 522 (if lucky)
    And now, there's Nalak too

    This is without doing any raid at all, there's lots of good pugs for MSV/HoF/ToeS if needed.
    Last edited by Eihwaz; 2013-04-12 at 08:21 AM.
    Made by mountandpetlover, big thanks !

  6. #426
    Quote Originally Posted by celinamuna View Post
    Farm heroics --> 463, get farm isle get coints, run first wing of lfr --> get to 470, run 2nd wind of lfr with more coints --> 480 --> chain que for all of ToT, you're probably going to get 1 piece out of 3 parts, spend valor on one of the ToT rep vendors --> probably 485 at this point.
    I tried doing that. It takes 2 weeks. Unless you're insanely dedicated, as in, more than the 12 hours or so I spent on it.

    Simply COULD NOT go from "new 85" to LFR ToT in one lockout. And that included burning maybe 15 coins from a treasure run in extra runs in LFR. What I wasn't willing to do was spend gold on gear beyond 450 crap. (Because how I make gold is selling gear to people who are willing to spend gold on it.) I did however farm 4-5 pieces of honor gear. Still that only got me to 478 or so the first week.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-12 at 12:44 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Eihwaz View Post
    This is without doing any raid at all, there's lots of good pugs for MSV/HoF/ToeS if needed.
    Sha and Galleon and LFR are "raid." They're not "real" raiding but they are "raiding." So shut up about not needing any raid gear.

  7. #427
    Quote Originally Posted by HardCoder View Post
    I tried doing that. It takes 2 weeks. Unless you're insanely dedicated, as in, more than the 12 hours or so I spent on it.

    Simply COULD NOT go from "new 85" to LFR ToT in one lockout. And that included burning maybe 15 coins from a treasure run in extra runs in LFR. What I wasn't willing to do was spend gold on gear beyond 450 crap. (Because how I make gold is selling gear to people who are willing to spend gold on it.) I did however farm 4-5 pieces of honor gear. Still that only got me to 478 or so the first week.
    Could be shitty rng. But with 15 coins and HoF / ToeS lfr unlocked in 5.2 you'd get a lot of pieces easily. Which combined with 1 valor and possibly 1 conquest peice would push you into ToT lfr range.

  8. #428
    Quote Originally Posted by celinamuna View Post
    Could be shitty rng. But with 15 coins and HoF / ToeS lfr unlocked in 5.2 you'd get a lot of pieces easily. Which combined with 1 valor and possibly 1 conquest peice would push you into ToT lfr range.
    They've made gearing too complicated anyway, with valor vendors selling different ilevels of gear for the same fucking tier, and the only sane use of JP being for honor gear, and the gear being spread across vendors in multiple widely separated locations.

    Well, at least no one complains about PvP gear in LFR any more, but it's for a pretty idiotic reason, when there is no better gear you can buy with JP than fucking honor gear.

  9. #429
    The only boss so far that's been a real cock block for us is Tortos. We had close to a hundred wipes on that fat asshole.

    We're at 7/12 currently, although we did take a 2 week break after the first 2 weeks, due to both tanks and a DPS being away and us not really having a big enough team to cover that kind of loss.

    Overall the difficulty feels pretty good. Nothing has felt stupidly difficult, while at the same time very few bosses (1st one aside) were a complete pushover.

  10. #430
    Quote Originally Posted by Raxxed View Post
    Easier alt raids.
    No complaints here
    Lol no kidding.

  11. #431
    Quote Originally Posted by HardCoder View Post
    I tried doing that. It takes 2 weeks. Unless you're insanely dedicated, as in, more than the 12 hours or so I spent on it.

    Simply COULD NOT go from "new 85" to LFR ToT in one lockout. And that included burning maybe 15 coins from a treasure run in extra runs in LFR. What I wasn't willing to do was spend gold on gear beyond 450 crap. (Because how I make gold is selling gear to people who are willing to spend gold on it.) I did however farm 4-5 pieces of honor gear. Still that only got me to 478 or so the first week.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-12 at 12:44 AM ----------


    Sha and Galleon and LFR are "raid." They're not "real" raiding but they are "raiding." So shut up about not needing any raid gear.
    By raid I mean spending time and doing a raid for 2/3 hours. Actual raid.

    Not typing "warlock lfg sha/galleon", this is not raiding to me.

    And please be civil, we're not childs.
    Made by mountandpetlover, big thanks !

  12. #432
    Quote Originally Posted by Jamal View Post
    People like Eiffeltower just want to feel like special snowflakes because THEY killed Horridon and don't anyone else to kill him because it would devalue their kill
    Hi, thanks
    Who said anything about devaluating ? I killed it on the first week, and you can't even do it after a 30% hp nerf lol ... Nothing is going to devaluate that. Even if you kill it now, it's not really a kill, its a 30% nerf kill ... #Swag

    What i would like, is for people to stop whining that they cant down the latest bosses when they havent even tried to put all the chances on their side ....

    "Ohhh nooo i dont wanna raid T14 because T15 is out, and therefore if i raid T14 it must mean i am late on progress, and i am not late, im super special "

    .... dude you are late on your progression path, specifically because you dont wanna raid old tiers. This is why you are failing on horridon and then coming on forums QQing its too hard. Blizzard has finally given in to your QQ and nerf AGAIN (we are up to 30% add hp nerf since release ... come one).

    What happens when you get stuck at JiKun ? Moar nerfs because you are trying to do it in 490 gear ?!

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-12 at 10:42 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by aginorr View Post
    I'm sorry but for the people whining that they 'HAVE' to run t14 to get gear to get past the first few bosses in throne, where the hell were you when t14 was current content? If you have been raiding normal mode since 5.1 onward you should easily have 495+ ilvl (valor gear+loot from raids) and in the past 5 weeks of ToT you should have been able to pick up minimum of 3 522 valor items (neck ring bracers at 1250 each) meaning even if you don't have any luck in lfr you should be pushing 500 ilvl, in that gear if your raid team cant down horridon PRE NERF then there is 1 or more people in your raid that are holding you back. It's not rocket science, if someone cant avoid standing in shit/pick up aggro/heal and dispel/INTERRUPT VENOMANCERS then they are causing unnecessary wipes.

    As for the people who started raiding later I have 2 words for you, man up. Everyone else who wants some progress in ToT had to raid t14 first so why shouldn't you? t14 is nerfed to the ground but for late starters to MoP raiding its still going to provide a starting point to gear up and with t14 bonus coins being easy to cap and having an increased drop chance it will be much faster to gear up than it was for everyone else.

    So much this. People don't wanna do the proper progression path 'because omg i dont like the model and i dont wanna raid T14' ... you special fking snowflakes . We are all in the same boat and you are asking for a different treatment ? What gives you the right to skip half of the game's content and just jump into the latest one? What were you doing last tier ?

  13. #433
    Herald of the Titans Injin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eiffeltower View Post

    So much this. People don't wanna do the proper progression path 'because omg i dont like the model and i dont wanna raid T14' ... you special fking snowflakes . Who gives a damn what you like, we are all in the same boat and you are asking for a different treatment ? Wjhat gives you the right to skip half of the game's content and just jump into the latest one? What were you doing last tier ?
    People don't want to do the proper progression path, therefore it's shit design.

    Game is voluntary buddy, it's supposed to entice people into wanting to do it. if it doesn't entice people it's a complete and utter failure.
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  14. #434
    Quote Originally Posted by Jamal View Post
    Let me tell you something. At the end of 5.1 most normal mode raiders had ilvl 490-495. In some cases 489 from MSV was better than 496 from HoF/ToES because of gem slots/secondary stats. Item upgrade was also so expensive that not every item could be upgraded to 504 and it doesn't even exist anymore. Even now when everyone has 505-510 Horridon can still be hard if someone has L2P issues. What about the people who are stuck in a shit guild but can't just gquit because they have nowhere else to go?
    Wrong. At the end of 5.1 most normal raiders havent killeed Garalon yet and therefore are missing a lot of Normal gear.
    If they farmed the dailies, farmed the valor to the cap every week and played since day one, yes, they could have that ilvl, but not thanks to Normal raiding.

    MOST Normal guilds couldnt get past Garalon before 5.2, which is what people dont seem to understand here and its also why i say Normal raids are tuned for Heroic people.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-12 at 07:49 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Moshic View Post
    Lol
    First of all, I said fairly casual. I don't consider 11/12N after 6 weeks of content anything but. Not to mention 8/16HC in the LAST tier, which granted, we haven't done since this tier began. My point is that it was already easy.

    You are stil in the best 5% geared people, how can you say you are fairly casual?

    Seriously people, you want only 2% of people raiding or what?

  15. #435
    Quote Originally Posted by Eiffeltower View Post
    So much this. People don't wanna do the proper progression path 'because omg i dont like the model and i dont wanna raid T14' ... you special fking snowflakes . Who gives a damn what you like, we are all in the same boat and you are asking for a different treatment ? Wjhat gives you the right ? What were you doing last tier ?
    This is a fine line that Blizzard have to tread.

    With their design intent they clearly had the vision that people would gear up in t14 if they got blocked by gearchecks in t15.

    Now internal statistics have proven this isn't the case. Do Blizzard dig their heels in and stubbornly stick to what they thought would happen or do they bend and make t15 more accessable to those with less skill / gear? They chose the latter.

    Remember, these players are the silent majority, Blizzard are seeing how the playerbase act, not listening to the people who post in these shitfests on the forums. Thats smart business, at the end of the day you need to cater to your customers. If the model fails, sometimes its incumbent on the developer to tweak the model, not force it down a subscribers throat. If this is offensive to you, so be it. It pleases more than it offends and thats smart.

  16. #436
    Look guys, i get what you are saying :
    "i dont like the design".
    Then ... don't play? Instead of just QQing ?
    This is exactly the same as people QQing about a new ability, a pvp change, or whatever. No one is forcing you to play. But this is the way the game currently operates.

  17. #437
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eiffeltower View Post
    Look guys, i get what you are saying :
    "i dont like the design".
    Then ... don't play? Instead of just QQing ?
    This is exactly the same as people QQing about a new ability, a pvp change, or whatever. No one is forcing you to play. But this is the way the game currently operates.
    I've not put my own personal view accross much tbh. I'm loving mop.

    I did explain what the playerbase at large are doing - which is ignoring the progression path.

    edit - which means the progression path is shit design.
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  18. #438
    Oh sorry, didn't realise you were official spokesman for the entire wow population ...
    And even if you were right : fine, ignore progression paths. Wipe, and then ask for instances to be nerfed ? is that really rewarding to wipe for X amount of time, and then log on a wednesday and the boss falls over ? you really feel like its a kill ?

  19. #439
    Quote Originally Posted by Eiffeltower View Post
    Look guys, i get what you are saying :
    "i dont like the design".
    Then ... don't play? Instead of just QQing ?
    This is exactly the same as people QQing about a new ability, a pvp change, or whatever. No one is forcing you to play. But this is the way the game currently operates.
    But its not...

    They tweak based on what players do, not forum qq.

    If they keep the current design of the second boss in a new tier being a cockblock it will achieve 2 things.
    1) People will stop laying
    2) The dev time spent will be wasted.
    Both of these are bad.

    Once again for clarity, I'm far past the point where these nerfs affect me but I can see why the changes are made. It's smart.

  20. #440
    So if people dont kill the second boss its wasted dev time, but if people ignore the entire T14 (3 raids x 2 difficulties) then it is not wasted ? Dat logic

    The fact is, you want to play the latest tier without having done any homework / preparation / gearing up. Its your fault if you are failing, not blizzards.
    Youre the one not wanting to go T14 farming when you know deep down this is the current design... You are digging your own hole and asking for a ladder ..

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