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  1. #441
    Quote Originally Posted by Eiffeltower View Post
    Oh sorry, didn't realise you were official spokesman for the entire wow population ...
    And even if you were right : fine, ignore progression paths. Wipe, and then ask for instances to be nerfed ? is that really rewarding to wipe for X amount of time, and then log on a wednesday and the boss falls over ? you really feel like its a kill ?
    Im begining to think that only thing that matters is "More loot, more ners, MOAR, NOW!!!"

  2. #442
    Why even argue that the design is bad. Who cares. I abhore the fact that 10 and 25 have the same lockot and pretend to be the same difficulty, yet i still play ..

  3. #443
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eiffeltower View Post
    Oh sorry, didn't realise you were official spokesman for the entire wow population ...
    I'm just looking at the completion rates.

    And even if you were right : fine, ignore progression paths. Wipe, and then ask for instances to be nerfed ? is that really rewarding to wipe for X amount of time, and then log on a wednesday and the boss falls over ? you really feel like its a kill ?
    Me/ Probably not. Most of the players - they'll love it.
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  4. #444
    Quote Originally Posted by Dukenukem View Post
    Im begining to think that only thing that matters is "More loot, more ners, MOAR, NOW!!!"

    Its not even that, these guys would get a TON of loot by doing T14. Could clear each instance in an hour with the current nerfs, but they feel like if they have to go back to T14, they wont be trendy anymore or something ... because its not 'the latest' ... A bit like girls in Essex looking at nails.

  5. #445
    Quote Originally Posted by Eiffeltower View Post
    Look guys, i get what you are saying :
    "i dont like the design".
    Then ... don't play? Instead of just QQing ?
    This is exactly the same as people QQing about a new ability, a pvp change, or whatever. No one is forcing you to play. But this is the way the game currently operates.
    No, you dont get what we are saying.

    We are saying: "We like the idea that there is Normal raiding for Normal raiders and Heroic raiding for heroic raiders, but right now, Normal raiding is NOT tuned for normal raiders, as its clearly showed by the fact that 75% of GUILDS (meaning, guild groups, no pugs) TRYING to do Normal couldnt completed after 5 months with item upgrades nerfing and this is NOT because they didnt try, since in the last 5 weeks the number of guilds completing old content grew by a whooping 50%".

    So what we are asking is: Tune Normal raiding for Normal players, not heroic players like you. You SHOULD BREEZE through normals, because you are above its skill level requirement.

  6. #446
    Quote Originally Posted by Eiffeltower View Post
    Look guys, i get what you are saying :
    "i dont like the design".
    Then ... don't play? Instead of just QQing ?
    This is exactly the same as people QQing about a new ability, a pvp change, or whatever. No one is forcing you to play. But this is the way the game currently operates.
    So, imagine someone tells you, hey there's this game, you probably won't like the way you're supposed to play it, but no one forces you to do it that way.

    Sounds fun, huh.

  7. #447
    Quote Originally Posted by Eiffeltower View Post
    So if people dont kill the second boss its wasted dev time, but if people ignore the entire T14 (3 raids x 2 difficulties) then it is not wasted ? Dat logic

    The fact is, you want to play the latest tier without having done any homework / preparation / gearing up. Its your fault if you are failing, not blizzards.
    Youre the one not wanting to go T14 farming when you know deep down this is the current design... You are digging your own hole and asking for a ladder ..
    People didnt ignore T14, they tried and failed because it was overtuned, now its old content yet they are still trying (and many normal raiders are still failing).

  8. #448
    Quote Originally Posted by Crashdummy View Post
    No, you dont get what we are saying.

    We are saying: "We like the idea that there is Normal raiding for Normal raiders and Heroic raiding for heroic raiders, but right now, TIER 15 Normal raiding is NOT tuned for TIER 13-T14 normal raiders, as its clearly showed by the fact that 75% of T13 GEARED GUILDS (meaning, guild groups, no pugs) TRYING to do T14 Normal couldnt completed after 5 months with item upgrades nerfing and this is NOT because they didnt try, since in the last 5 weeks the number of guilds completing old content grew by a whooping 50%" BECAUSE THERE WAS NERF TO HELP YOU GEAR UP FOR TIER 15 - you are still in T13,5 GEAR

    So what we are asking is: Tune T15 Normal raiding for T13-14 geared Normal players, not T15 heroic players like you. You SHOULD BREEZE through normals, because you are above its skill level requirement.
    fixed that for you, hopefuly you should see where you are going wrong (hint : you are trying to skip a tier)

  9. #449
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eiffeltower View Post
    fixed that for you, hopefuly you should see where you are going wrong (hint : you are trying to skip a tier)
    Everyone will want to skip a tier, this is why trying to force them to do all the tiers in order is shit design.

    You are trying to sell a dogshit flavoured lolipop.
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  10. #450
    Quote Originally Posted by HardCoder View Post
    So, imagine someone tells you, hey there's this game, you probably won't like the way you're supposed to play it, but no one forces you to do it that way.

    Sounds fun, huh.
    Thats your words.
    What blizz is saying : heres 4 raids x 2 difficulties (3 of them nerfed to the ground) + Rep + Valor .
    Please dont consume content too fast, as it takes time to produce. Please consume content in the right order and dont jump immediatly to the hardest raid.

    Your reply : no. I wanna do the latest everything, now, without any gear.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-12 at 11:22 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Injin View Post
    Everyone will want to skip a tier, this is why trying to force them to do all the tiers in order is shit design.

    You are trying to sell a dogshit flavoured lolipop.
    Again, dont like the design dont play.
    I personally think its a LOT better to have 3-4 raids out at the same time that are different difficulties, than trying to cater one raid for the entire wow population, which is very diverse. I think its a lot smarter.
    But the problem is, some people want to do the latest content without having done anything before that.

    the flavour on that lolipop is your opinion, and btw, i am not the one trying to sell it, blizzard is. its their game not mine, im just explaining to you how you should be doing it to avoid frustrating wipes, and you are replying - no no no no no no must do latest content

  11. #451
    Quote Originally Posted by Crashdummy View Post
    So what we are asking is: Tune Normal raiding for Normal players, not heroic players like you. You SHOULD BREEZE through normals, because you are above its skill level requirement.
    Well, if they wanted to Breeze trough normal they would tune it that way. They are opening LFR in a pace what they think Normal guild is progressing. We got 4/16 HC in T14 and we are hardly heroic raiders (12 Hours/Week cant do much) we are currently 10/12 and aiming to 12/12 this reset to perfectly match the LFR opening. Are we what is blizzard considering Normal guild or profesionals ahead the curve?

  12. #452
    Quote Originally Posted by Crashdummy View Post
    It is really not enough. It may avoid more raiders bleed, but it wont bring back those that already quitted. They need to change their philosophy and make NORMAL raiding for NORMAL raiders.

    You say how the Garalon fix is needed? It was needed 5 months ago. 40k guilds started T14, 13k killed Empress, and Garalon was the boss the stooped most guilds from progressing.

    Blizzard even admitted that Garalon enrage timer was too tight, but they never fixed it untill now.

    They need to be faster to fix the big roadblocks stopping normal progression, and they need to change their philosophy. Normal modes should have several less mechanics than heroics, less than what they have now, and the DPS and healing requirements should be lower so that Normal people can complete the tier before the next one launches.
    you have LFR for that.

    I go in for normal should still be challanging, but imo normal should always be that if you handle the mechanism right you get a kill. Im not that much into fights on normal that have tight enrange timers. Tight enrange timers is only for heroics fights imo.

  13. #453
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eiffeltower View Post
    Thats your words.



    Again, dont like the design dont play.
    People don't like the design, and they aren't playing it.

    Which is why the content is getting nerfed.
    I personally think its a LOT better to have 3-4 raids out at the same time that are different difficulties, than trying to cater one raid for the entire wow population, which is very diverse. I think its a lot smarter.
    But the problem is, some people want to do the latest content without having done anything before that.
    It's not a problem, it's just what people are like.
    the flavour on that lolipop is your opinion, and btw, i am not the one trying to sell it, blizzard is. its their game not mine, im just explaining to you how you should be doing it to avoid frustrating wipes, and you are replying - no no no no no no must do latest content
    I'm talking about the general playerbase and how they act, not myself. I'm 7/12 normal mode and loving it. I am just not a fuckwit who thinks his likes and dislikes are the same as everyone elses.
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  14. #454
    Quote Originally Posted by Eiffeltower View Post
    fixed that for you, hopefuly you should see where you are going wrong (hint : you are trying to skip a tier)
    You havent fixed anythying, you have shown your complete lack of reading comprehension. I am talking about t14 completion rates. I havent even started considering t15 ones.

    75% T14 NORMAL GUILDS COULDNT COMPLETE T14 in 5 months with item upgrades

  15. #455
    Quote Originally Posted by Eiffeltower View Post
    Please dont consume content too fast, as it takes time to produce. Please consume content in the right order and dont jump immediatly to the hardest raid.
    What you're not getting here is that the "right order" is, if you are one of the "casual raiders" who will probably not exist in the game after this year:

    * Some cursory bullshit once you ding 90.
    * Whatever the current normal tier is.
    * One or two heroic bosses, if anyone's crazy enough to try.

    You seem to think it should be more like:

    * Some cursory bullshit once you ding 90.
    * The normal tier that the cool kids blew through in 2 weeks, 3 months ago.
    * One or two bosses from the current tier, if you have the ilevel to get in.

    Imagine you are selling subscriptions to WoW. Suppose your income directly relates to the number of subscriptions you sell. Suppose your girlfriend is pregnant and you really like her, or, your mother is dying of cancer and needs money from you. Which version of the above would you prefer?

  16. #456
    Quote Originally Posted by Crashdummy View Post
    You havent fixed anythying, you have shown your complete lack of reading comprehension. I am talking about t14 completion rates. I havent even started considering t15 ones.

    75% T14 NORMAL GUILDS COULDNT COMPLETE T14 in 5 months with item upgrades
    Yeah thats what i said.. If you can't complete T14 while T14 is current, (yes you suck but) they are getting nerfed in T15 so you can THEN, during T15, still kill them and gear up to be in the place Blizzard wants you to be for T15.

    What you are saying is 'We couldn't beat T14 while it was current, and we can't beat T15 while its current, but we are definitly not going to do T14 while T15 is current.

    suit yourself lol !

  17. #457
    Eiffel I think you missunderstand the point he is trying to make. It's not that people shouldn't do the previous teir but that if only 25% of raids succeed in completing a teir then that teir was overtuned.

  18. #458
    Quote Originally Posted by HardCoder View Post
    snip
    Please don't ever use an analogy where someone's mother is dying cancer on public forums .... It can hit more nerves than you think... we are talking about games. And i'm being polite here.

    Look to answer your petty little post, id rather have solution 2 (even though you wrote it with a bias) because it lasts longer in time.
    Catering one raid to the entire wow population is a stuipid solution imo. Having 3 raids at different diffuclties is pretty smart. You are the one who has a problem not beating the latest tier.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-12 at 11:56 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Candiman View Post
    Eiffel I think you missunderstand the point he is trying to make. It's not that people shouldn't do the previous teir but that if only 25% of raids succeed in completing a teir then that teir was overtuned.
    no i got that. Iam saying 'go back there now, its been nerfed' to which hes saying 'i dont wanna its not current (but current raids are killing me)'

  19. #459
    Yes but the point he is making is that normal modes should be completed by roughly 50% of raiders. That's how they should be tuned not the way they are now forcing the majority of raiders to stay in a previous teir.

  20. #460
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eiffeltower View Post
    Please don't ever use an analogy where someone's mother is dying cancer on public forums .... It can hit more nerves than you think... we are talking about games. And i'm being polite here.

    Look to answer your petty little post, id rather have solution 2 (even though you wrote it with a bias) because it lasts longer in time.
    Catering one raid to the entire wow population is a stuipid solution imo. Having 3 raids at different diffuclties is pretty smart. You are the one who has a problem not beating the latest tier.
    The point is that currently theres a huge clump of people not being catered to.

    There is LFR (super easy, no teamwork required)
    Then Normal mode (difficult, lots of teamwork, coordination, tactics, gear, skill and homework)
    Then Heroic mode (really difficult, all of the above + extreme skill and persistence.)

    There is no place to go if you are vaguely organised, have some coordination, some gear, some homework and only some skill. Or, another way to look at it is the difficulty levels of previous versions of wow is no longer present.
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